Electrical Gremlins 1 me 0

[Miles Long]

Ran the test, I am getting the same reading from battery as red/black on the 9pin + ground.

Interesting. Power to relay, but no power to starter relay source when attempting to start. Although my 03 uses a different wiring arrangement, I'm going to do some testing on it....the starting sequences should be the same.
The only thing I can think of at the moment, other than getting into more involved testing of the scoop relay, is to jumper both the clutch safety switch, and the sidestand switch, because both have to be working properly for the bike to start. They both feed into the scoop relay, via the black/yellow wire. Have your bike on the centerstand and in neutral when attempting this.
By "jumper", I mean to disconnect the switch connections, and use short pieces of wire to connect the two terminals. This will complete the circuits.
Back later. Gotta fire up the snowblower, and take care of 20 cm. of fresh stuff. On the first day of spring!:bang head:

 

[Tex85]

Ouch, I do not envy you on having to deal with snow!

I don't know if this will matter but the kick stand switch was disabled by the PO. I have not looked into how this was done but I imagine a looped or dummy circuit so it does not register the kickstand. As for the center stand the PO (one of them) had a kerker setup and cut it off.

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[johnpclynch]

The starter relay on the VMax is "always high" and grounded when you click the start button (can someone confirm that this is the same for the old '85 model - I don't think it was that different :confused2

Shorting the positive from the battery to one of the terminals will do nothing (...) you need to GROUND the blue/white wire to switch the relay !!!

Here is the starter diagram from the Service Manual

 

[johnpclynch]

Starter relay test:
- Disconnect the [Blue/White] lead from the starter relay
- Check the battery voltage between the battery negative (-) and the [Blue/White] lead from the starter relay (it should read 12V)
- Connect the [Blue/White] lead from the starter relay to the battery negative (-) terminal using a jumper lead
- If the starter relay does not click; replace the relay

 

[johnpclynch]

Starting circuit cut-off relay unit test:
- Remove left scoop and disconnect the relay unit connector
- Turn ignition ON and start/stop switch to the ON position
- Check the battery voltage between the battery negative (-) and the [Red/Black] lead to the relay unit (it should read 12V)
- Plug the relay unit back in
- Connect the [Black/Yellow] lead from the relay unit to the battery negative (-) terminal (or ground) using a jumper lead
- If the starter relay does not click; replace the relay
- If the starter relay unit clicks, check the starter, clutch and neutral switches. Replace switch(es) if necessary.

 

[johnpclynch]

Two other thing to be aware of
1) Check if you have any blown fuses... there are a few under the faux tank and one main 30A near the battery (I keep forgetting to check these)
2) You could have a bad wire - when checking your voltages don't assume that if one side of the wire is 12V that the other side is also 12V

 

[Tex85]

Thanks for the tips John I will try these this evening and report back.

New starter relay has been ordered and should be here Friday or at the latest Monday. Going to swap the battery today as well to remove that factor from the equation.

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[Tex85]

Further tinkering delayed, picked up the wife from the airport and got well... "distracted." I will be running John's tests when I get home from work tomorrow. I really appreciate the input from everyone and apologize for not getting results posted quicker.

 

[naughtyG]

I think I may have just found my electrical gremlin on my '86 - not fixed yet but I'm 99% sure it's it.

Just in case you have something similar - give a good tug to both ends of your main ground lead. One end's on the battery negative pole, the other's on the motor next to the oil filler cap.

They're supposed to be soldered and sealed, but the upper one just fell apart on mine, which could well explain my loss of electrics. watch this space..

 

[Miles Long]

Tex, I checked the connections to my bike's starter relay yesterday....both the blue and the red wire show battery voltage with the ignition on (the later model relays have two input wires, because of the dedicated starter cut off relay). This would seem to correspond to the battery voltage you observed when you checked the blue/white single wire to your relay.
As Mr. Naughty says above, I'm thinking your problem will turn out to be something very simple.
Cheers!

 

[Tex85]

Yeah, just waiting in the replacement relay at this point. I still plan on running through the other tests today to verify but I think with your help Miles this issue has been pegged.

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[Tex85]

Based on all the testing tips from everyone everything is pointing to that relay. If I am lucky it will arrive sometime tomorrow, but given my latest stretch I am guessing I will not see it until Monday.

Thanks again for all of the help everyone.

I'll post an update one the new relay is installed.

 

[Tex85]

Excellent news, the electrical gremlins have been conquered!!!

My utmost thanks goes out to Miles Long, without you I would have been extremely frustrated and had a hard time getting to the bottom of my problem.

I would also like to thank CaptainKyle for access to his inventory of tester parts.

All said and done the regulator quit regulating causing the battery and starter relay to get fried. After replacing those two components with known working parts everything else fell into place.

Thanks again!!

unk: I love this forum :eusa_dance:

 

[Traumahawk]

Good....glad that everything is working out...

 

[Miles Long]

Glad that you're back in business, Tex. I was hoping that the cause would something a bit less expensive.
There is a lesson for us all here.....an on-board voltmeter (or voltage indicator light bar), should be standard equipment for any Max, any bike for that matter. If you see too little voltage it gives you time to get home or to a garage, if too much voltage (I think 14.8 is the accepted maximum), it gives you a heads up to replace the RR asap, before frying components.
I'm surprised that none of your bulbs didn't blow, with all that excess voltage going thru them.
Guess I was looking at your meter in your initial post, and never noticed that white connector behind the coil ..... is that crud on it, or was it fried internally?
Cheers!

 

[ninjaneer]

 

[Tex85]

Glad that you're back in business, Tex. I was hoping that the cause would something a bit less expensive.
There is a lesson for us all here.....an on-board voltmeter (or voltage indicator light bar), should be standard equipment for any Max, any bike for that matter. If you see too little voltage it gives you time to get home or to a garage, if too much voltage (I think 14.8 is the accepted maximum), it gives you a heads up to replace the RR asap, before frying components.
I'm surprised that none of your bulbs didn't blow, with all that excess voltage going thru them.
Guess I was looking at your meter in your initial post, and never noticed that white connector behind the coil ..... is that crud on it, or was it fried internally?
Cheers!

That is good old fashion crud, although it is quite a bit cleaner now. As for the cost it actually wasn't too bad. The regulator and battery were under warranty. In the end it was $19 for the relay plus some shipping reimbursements. For a 12v system getting 20+v, I made out pretty damn good damage cost wise :eusa_dance:

 

[johnpclynch]

Having some electrical gremlins myself with my FMX650
ride it for a few days and the battery goes flat, charge it fully and leave the bike stand for a few days and the battery goes flat...
guess what - new starter relay in the post :biglaugh: the one that's in there is slowly draining the life out of the battery

 

[Tex85]

Damn starter relays! Although using the start button is much preferred over hot wiring it each time. Glad you found your problem quickly John!

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[johnpclynch]

Never really thought starter relays could be a problem, just imagined them as big ON/OFF switches.
then this thread got me thinking - if theres always 12v running straight into these boxes, what happens if something sticks/leaks or shorts out...