Electrical problem

[yukonerdave]

Hey guys. Looking for some brainstorming help

Bike had a complete electrical shut-down on me yesterday (on a bridge in rush-hour traffic, of course). Battery is reading 12.8v, and as far as I know it has been charging properly (I tested it early in the summer and has just over 14v at 3k rpm). The problem I have isolated is the top 30a fuse in the small fuse box right above the positive battery terminal. It had blown, and it fries immediately when I try to replace it. I tried replacing it with the power off and the battery disconnected, but as soon as I connected the positive wire it fried again (ignition was turned off). The other fuse in the same location seems fine.

I'm pretty new with electrical stuff but I assume this means that the system is overloaded. I don't have any clues why. Could it be a bad battery? Could the system be overcharging (not a common issue with vmax, as far as I know)? Any other ideas?

 

[DMAN999]

It sounds like you have a Short somewhere.
Follow any wires that connect to the Fuse that keeps blowing until you fine the culprit, probably a bare wire touching metal or a Melted connection.
The wiring diagram can be found at the end of Chapter 9 of the Haynes manual:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55030067/Haynes%20VMax%20Service%20Manual.rar

 

[unruhly]

+1 on the short to ground.
The hard part is finding it. If you don't have one, go pick up a multi-meter. I think you're gonna need one for sure. Harbor Freight, Sears, Radio Shack, etc.

So attach the black lead of your meter to the ground terminal of the battery, and with the battery disconnected from the positive lead of the battery, attach your meter to that positive lead. With the meter in Ohms mode it will read 10 ohms or less if you have a direct short.

Start disconnecting things. I'd start with the Stator and R/R first, but when you un-plug the culprit your resistance will go from somewhere around zero to 10 ohms up into the thousands (k) ohms.

Good luck!!

 

[Tex85]

Multi-meter from harbor freight will only set you back $5, or free with a coupon and a purchase of something else. When I had electrical issues I found this diagram to be VERY useful.

Credit for that diagram goes to contributors in the "Electrical Gremlins" thread I had a few months back.

http://anycycle.com/vmax/Vmax-Wiring_Diagrams1.pdf

 

[DMAN999]

Multi-meter from harbor freight will only set you back $5, or free with a coupon and a purchase of something else. When I had electrical issues I found this diagram to be VERY useful.

Credit for that diagram goes to contributors in the "Electrical Gremlins" thread I had a few months back.

http://anycycle.com/vmax/Vmax-Wiring_Diagrams1.pdf

Or maybe the Haynes Manual where they got those from. :rofl_200:

 

[Tex85]

Or maybe the Haynes Manual where they got those from. :rofl_200:

:blink000: Yeah... I guess I should have gone through your whole link first, lol. Well mine is the condensed version? :rofl_200:

 

[yukonerdave]

OK good call on the R/R. Here's where I am at. With everything plugged in and the RR disconnected from the footpeg piece, all systems are go. I disconnected the R/R wire, re-attached it to the footpeg piece (with the footpeg piece still detached from the bike frame, plugged the R/R wire back in, and POP - fuse blows. There is a black ground wire that was connected to one of the screws holding the RR to the footpeg. I don't recall which screw it was attached to, and may have got it backwards. I assumed it was just a ground wire and that it didn't matter. If anyone knows, or if anyone doesn't mind having a quick look at theirs, where is the black ground wire attached? Here's a picture just in case my description isn't clear:

 

[yukonerdave]

If that wire isn't my problem is it possible that the R/R unit itself is my problem? Also, so long as I charge the battery at night, are there any problems with running it with the R/R disconnected until I can get a replacement - if that's what I need?

 

[MaxMidnight]

It doesn't matter which of the R/R mounting bolt it goes to. Note that this is an addition as the early Maxii didn't have a separate earth wire.

As it looks like you are going to need a replacement R/R suggest that you fit one of the later finned versions.

I can't think of any technical reasons why you can't run off the battery although I can think of a practical one which involves having to push the bike!

 

[Fire-medic]

When I was dirt-poor and my early 1970's ride was a Kawi H1 500 Blue Streak, I had a charging problem and ran my bike for months w/o a functional charging system. I just ran it off the battery, and didn't turn-on the headlight. At that time, you didn't need to run the headlight constantly. If I heard the bike start to break-up, I knew the battery was petering-out, time to head for home! It was an around-town hot rod, and I used to love passing the Harley riders and seeing them enveloped in a haze of two-stroke oil in my wake.

My roommate had a brand-new '72 Sportster, the 1st year of the 1000 cc engine, and that was a pretty bike. He actually could stay with me pretty-good, but I would walk-away from him as the speeds got higher. Man, my bike would buzz something-fierce if I got towards triple digits!

One time on I-95 in Ft. Lauderdale FL, there was a string of Outlaws, riding double-file, probably about two dozen + of them, when I approached them from the rear. I dropped down a couple, ran it to redline, and shifted up until I was passing the lot of them. I was by them before they knew I was there, and I kept it cranked-open for another 1/4 mile. When I backed-out of it, there was a blue cloud of Bel-Ray the whole distance back from where I was, and the Outlaws were probably plenty-pissed about having to breathe it! I didn't wait for them to catch-up to me to discuss air pollution and the need to keep your bike in-tune to minimize exhaust gases.:rofl_200:

I had a R/R go bad on my '92, and haven't had any issues since I replaced it. You should definitely replace your stock one w/a MOSFET one, look in the How-To's & stickies for electrical issues. Don't run the R/R w/o being grounded to the bike in some fashion, I'm pretty-sure it needs to have a bond to the electrical system to avoid problems. I know that the stock one uses the attachment as a heat-sink, so if nothing-else, you won't be able to get rid of excess heat the R/R needs to rid itself of. Remember the first law of energy from your high school chemistry class.

This is the Mach III I had:

 

[jfeagins]

I think Sean Morley stocks the newer finned R/R's for about as cheap as you can get them anywhere. You would need 2 longer bolts to go through the thicker finned R/R to mount it back up. Too simple. No fuss. No muss.

My 85 has the newer set up.

 

[yukonerdave]

Excellent. Thanks a lot for all the help. I'll get in touch with Sean

 

[yukonerdave]

Or maybe I'll just grab THIS since it's such a great price!

 

[johnpclynch]

Or maybe I'll just grab THIS since it's such a great price!

They must have put the decimal point in the wrong place

Have you considered upgrading to a mosfet regulator?
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=2463

 

[jfeagins]

Or maybe I'll just grab THIS since it's such a great price!

It must be a bargain - it has nine watchers according to Ebay. Wonder how much they want for one of the newer styled R/R's? :ummm:

 

[Tex85]

I think the watchers came from here wondering if some sucker would actually buy it. 30 minutes ago it said 6.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[yukonerdave]

Problem solved - thanks again everyone. Got my R/R from Morley 2 days after ordering it, and everything looks stable after installing it. Last question - I live on the West coast and ride pretty regularly in the rain. Given the location of the R/R I'm just wondering if that could have contributed to its failing. If so, is there anything I should do to avoid running into the same problem again (other than stop riding in the rain - if you don't ride in the rain around here, then you don't ride much at all)?

 

[Fire-medic]

Problem solved - thanks again everyone. Got my R/R from Morley 2 days after ordering it, and everything looks stable after installing it. Last question - I live on the West coast and ride pretty regularly in the rain. Given the location of the R/R I'm just wondering if that could have contributed to its failing. If so, is there anything I should do to avoid running into the same problem again (other than stop riding in the rain - if you don't ride in the rain around here, then you don't ride much at all)?

Lafayette IN is the "West Coast" of what? :rofl_200the Mid-west Coast?):ummm:

Or, you're originally-from IN and now you are working somewhere around WA or OR? So you're getting good at riding in the rain, and cold rain? You might want to look at my ad for an all-weather jacket in the classified ads clothing section, just right for wet, cold riding and if you're 6'+ as it's XXL.:biglaugh:

When I was in graduate school, we did a case study on a battery manufacturer, and used statistical analysis to determine how-many batteries were going to be warrantied. Electrical components are either going to work out of the box or they are going to be bad, usually immediately. The materials and design is such that you can reasonably predict the lifespan given a certain design. About the only thing I can see happening from the exposure to some water spray, is that the cooling effect of the exposure to moisture will help it to give longer service, assuming that the electrical leads are adequately protected, and the material used in its construction is resistant to rust/corrosion. Honestly, my stock R/R lasted 17 years, so I wouldn't worry at-night about its longevity. They're cheap, easy to replace and it's 'set-it (into service) & forget-it' technology. You don't have to periodically-replace the 'electron filter,' or lube the 'volt receptacle.'

 

[sdt354]

The OEM location was picked to get some cooling air on the R/R Dave. They are water tight and won't be harmed from getting wet. Ride safe.
Steve

 

[Bill Seward]

However, the connector plug between the stator and R/R is not weatherproof... After a while, things get a bit corroded there, the corrosion adds resistance, and the connectors get hot. They can (and will!) get hot enough to melt the connector. Solution? Cut out the plugs and solder the 3 white wires from the stator to the 3 white wires to the regulator. Doesn't matter which stator wire goes to which R/R wire - it's 3 phase AC. Make sure everything is soldered really well, and insulated well, and you'll be good to go.

Many members of this forum have melted the connector, and most everyone fixes it by soldering the wires together.