Ok so I'm at a loss for ideas. I bought this bike a few weeks ago, it ran like crap so here is what I've done in a matter of two weeks. New wiring harness. Removed carbs, removed vboost, removed the thing in the valley of the engine and replaced rubber gaskets in both. When I removed the thing in the valley (it has oil and coolant passages) I also removed the timing chain adjuster. New dash (tach/coolant). Also put in new water pump and hoses and thermostat housing. Anyway, got it all put back together, adjusted vboost cable, new oil and coolant, even bought two new batteries to make sure I had a battery. Actually bought the batteries before I bought the bike. I bought a left hand control, new fuel pump and fuel pump relay and voltage R/R from CaptainKyle, thanks Kyle, they work great!! I went to start the bike yesterday and it cranked slowly,,,,weeew, weeew, weeew. Eventually it stopped cranking at all, just a click. So charged battery overnight, this morning nothing, not even a click. So read articles on here about starter clutch. So I removed the starter from the bike, it looks new, but I wiped it off brought the car over and hooked battery cables to it, the starter whirled like a top. So I pulled off the starter cable it's in good shape hooked it up to the starter grounded it and hit the bikes start button, the starter spun great. Reinstalled starter hit button and I can hear the starter hit but engine doesn't budge. I had already purchased the gasket so I went to ACE Hardware bought three grade 8 bolts 8mm x 1.25 pitch. and easily removed the flywheel, Great videos on Morleys Facebook page on flywheel removal,,,removed my flywheel in no time. I took the brand new spark plugs out and put a socket on the flywheel bolt, I can turn the engine by hand about half a turn either way, I can hear the pistons wooshing air out of the cylinder but the engine then stops like it's hitting something. with the little gears in place I can hit the starter button and see the starter spin the gears. Anyway took the flywheel off and tried to remove the three bolts holding the clutch to the flywheel, they absolutely will not budge, the three little bearings seem ok. I put the large cog back onto the flywheel and here is where I sit. I turn the engine halfway over but then it siezes. The pistons aren't frozen as it does turn over it' just doesn't keep turning over if that makes sense. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Very sorry for the long post.
Engine is locked
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KJShover
Proud Vmax lover
I had a similar exp with one of my bikes. The starter gears weren't meshing correctly. The engine did exactly what you described. Would turn a bit in both directions but then lock up when trying to turn more. I didn't catch it until I pulled the starter assembly.
I removed the starter gears, and the flywheel, tightened up the flywheel bolt and turned with a breaker bar, still engine, turns about halfway then stops like it's hitting something. I wonder if removing the timing chain tensioner or installing a new water pump could cause this to happen.
Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
Pull the plugs and see if it spins freely, either by hand or with the starter. It may have leaked so much fuel into the engine you are in hydraulic lock, which will bend a rod ro break something if your battery is strong enough.
I've never heard of a bad starter clutch doing what your describing, usually they ratlle and then finally won't grab at all and the starter spins but not the engine.
I've never heard of a bad starter clutch doing what your describing, usually they ratlle and then finally won't grab at all and the starter spins but not the engine.
one2dmax
Well-Known Member
The mistake I see in your long paragraph (use breaks every now and then to make it easier to ready).
You said you removed the tensioner. Did you ensure to keep the camshaft restrained in place? If not it likely jumped timing and the valves are now hitting the top of the piston (and it's possible you are bending them).
On a side note, the gasket on the stator cover has to be in place or it will bind up the gearing between the starter and starter clutch. You said this was checked after the problem started but it's important you don't introduce another problem while you are checking this out.
Sean
You said you removed the tensioner. Did you ensure to keep the camshaft restrained in place? If not it likely jumped timing and the valves are now hitting the top of the piston (and it's possible you are bending them).
On a side note, the gasket on the stator cover has to be in place or it will bind up the gearing between the starter and starter clutch. You said this was checked after the problem started but it's important you don't introduce another problem while you are checking this out.
Sean
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I didn't ensure that the camshaft stayed in place. I moved the bike a couple of times in and out of the garage and the bike was in neutral. I did pull the plugs and it will spin freely about 180 degrees of turn on rachet either way it simply doesn't keep turnin over and over, it almost feels as if it's coming to a stop or hitting something each time I turn the crank.
Hey Sean, I do have a new stator cover gasket. How can I tell if it has jumped timing. Uggghhhh, this could be a headache. LOL geeze, I might end up with "new" 1988 vmax. lol. I love your videos by the way.
one2dmax
Well-Known Member
Yep, I'd bet you need to go through and reset the camshafts. You'll have to pull the valve covers from both since you set one set (rear) and then set the front in relation to it (430 degress counter clockwise). You have to remove the timing inspection plug to check the T1 and T2 marks.
The service manuals show how to set them.
Sean
The service manuals show how to set them.
Sean
wlodek1980
Well-Known Member
looks like valves hitting pistons. simple trick to lock camchain on sprockets - cable ties 
I was thinking the same thing wlodek! Man I wish I had the forethought to do that, ha next time I'll bring the zip ties along. I can post pics later.
This is where the motor stands:
When I rotate the flywheel counter clockwise it stops at the T1 in the timing window.
With the T1 in the timing window the rear cams are on their mark, they are timed correctly.
I know I shouldn't but if I rotate the flywheel clockwise, My wrench will turn 180 degrees and stop. I can only turn the flywheel 180 degrees.
I also measured .010-.012 and .004-.006 between the cams and the shims.
I thought the same thing as you, the valves must be hitting. However I completely removed the front cams.
I used a socket extension and can feel the pistons moving as I turn the flywheel.
Three days ago when I buttoned everything back up the engine did crank slowly, then after a few minutes the battery was drained.
Today I plan on taking the oil pan off and seeing what I can see. And if I have to I'll remove the rear cams.
I'm not a mechanic, but the inlaws got me a new toolset for Christmas so what the heck. I have a manual, tools and a great new friends on this forum. Worse comes to worse I'll write Morley a check for a new motor. I wish I could post everything I've done to this bike in the three weeks I've had it.
This is where the motor stands:
When I rotate the flywheel counter clockwise it stops at the T1 in the timing window.
With the T1 in the timing window the rear cams are on their mark, they are timed correctly.
I know I shouldn't but if I rotate the flywheel clockwise, My wrench will turn 180 degrees and stop. I can only turn the flywheel 180 degrees.
I also measured .010-.012 and .004-.006 between the cams and the shims.
I thought the same thing as you, the valves must be hitting. However I completely removed the front cams.
I used a socket extension and can feel the pistons moving as I turn the flywheel.
Three days ago when I buttoned everything back up the engine did crank slowly, then after a few minutes the battery was drained.
Today I plan on taking the oil pan off and seeing what I can see. And if I have to I'll remove the rear cams.
I'm not a mechanic, but the inlaws got me a new toolset for Christmas so what the heck. I have a manual, tools and a great new friends on this forum. Worse comes to worse I'll write Morley a check for a new motor. I wish I could post everything I've done to this bike in the three weeks I've had it.
Ok, yesterday I removed the case bolts, taped each one and labeled them, lots of pics. The only thing I couldn't remove were the retainers for the middle and main axle bearing. Takes a 40 torx and after removing two the middle axle bearing bolts my torx bit is deformed. This morning I'm heading out to buy a rubber mallet. I'm not a mechanic but I do have sockets, a breaker bar, soon a rubber mallet, and another box of beer. How hard can this be? LOL. Also I have Seans phone number and have pestered him to death. Anyway I've taken pics of every step and so I hope I can get all of this back together. Woohooo, wish me luck. I think that since I have this bike apart, I'm going to paint it. I'm thinking I'd like to paint it a charcoal grey with one of those wide pearl white racing strips running from the front fender to the rear fender. Why not.
one2dmax
Well-Known Member
Keep plugging away at it! I am not sure I would pull the pistons or remove the crank unless you spot some serious wear on the bores. I would pull the rod caps and inspect and then reassemble if they look good (no reason to replace the bearings if they are still clean). It sounds like you are splitting the cases? May want to look over the trans while you are at it. Rarely do I find one that doesn't need some attention.
Sean
Sean
sdt354
Well-Known Member
I'd pull the heads and pan for inspection. Then, turn the engine over by wrench and stop if it starts to lock up. Report back please. I hope it get's sorted out from there, by reassembling, And doesn't cost a fortune. At some point you've got to add up the parts and compare fixing, to a used ready to go engine. I'm willing to bet that engine is worth something. Pics, if there is a visable problem, would be great.
Steve-o
Steve-o
sdt354
Well-Known Member
+1 on the valves, damage has to be inspected now if so, IF that'a the case.looks like valves hitting pistons. simple trick to lock camchain on sprockets - cable ties
Steve-o
Ok so today I split the case. Note to self, if you leave bolt 22 in no matter how hard no matter how long you hit case with rubber hammer, case will not split in two. Ok. So.
I could not get the engine to turn more than 180 degrees.
I ended up pulling engine from bike. About a 3 hour job. Managed to remove engine without removing swingarm. I'll have to remove it to reinstall it for sure.
Here is the T1 mark through the window. And the Cam marks on the rear Cams.
Also here are the rear cylinders pistons and valves. The one valve looks a little open in the picture. I remounted the cam and turned it with a wrench, soaked it in WD40 and it seems to close now.
I could not get the engine to turn more than 180 degrees.
I ended up pulling engine from bike. About a 3 hour job. Managed to remove engine without removing swingarm. I'll have to remove it to reinstall it for sure.
Here is the T1 mark through the window. And the Cam marks on the rear Cams.
Also here are the rear cylinders pistons and valves. The one valve looks a little open in the picture. I remounted the cam and turned it with a wrench, soaked it in WD40 and it seems to close now.
Attachments
one2dmax
Well-Known Member
I wonder how long the bike sat before you got it?
Sean
Sean
Here are pics of the gears and crank etc.
I found some debris in the teeth of this gear, I believe it's from the water jacket.
The gears all look great, they seem smooth and I don't see any chipped or missing teeth.
All in all pleasantly surprised. If anyone wants to see any other pics of the insides let me know.
Thanks for all your help Sean!
I found some debris in the teeth of this gear, I believe it's from the water jacket.
The gears all look great, they seem smooth and I don't see any chipped or missing teeth.
All in all pleasantly surprised. If anyone wants to see any other pics of the insides let me know.
Thanks for all your help Sean!
Attachments
I don't know how long it sat, the boy I bought it from knew nothing at all about motorcycles, I've been riding for 25 years, all sport bikes, all Yamaha, one vfr750 one Goldwing, I've ridden through alaska and down south through Mexico. I gave him 2 g's for this bike, thinking even if it was a worse case scenario I could fix it. I rode it 70 miles home, parked it and took it apart knowing it wasn't running right.
