Ethanol and fuel stabilizer

[Eugene Brad]

Tone and delivery are a big part of communicating

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[firebolt]

I use the Pure Gas app too, I won't run ethanol in any of my bikes unless I'm desperate. Works pretty well, and there is usually a petrol station within a couple blocks of a more popular gas station that has ethanol free in mid or high grade.

 

[wkdenton]

my post was on the vague side and I overreacted so I owe you an apology too. Were good! :cheers:

No problem, and no apology req'd or asked for. All good all way round, new friend!

 

[jdeitz1979]

No problem, and no apology req'd or asked for. All good all way round, new friend!

+1


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[RaWarrior]

Unless you leave your bike sitting around for long periods of time (more than a couple months), using additives at every fill up is purely a waste of money.

A stabilizer and full tank of gas is a good idea if you lay the bike up for the winter. Ethanol free gas too, if you can get it. Otherwise the only treatment your bike needs is being ridden now and then.

If you're concerned that ethanol is separating in your gas, get a clear container and drain your carb bowls into it. If there's any separation, it tends to collect at the bottom of the bowls since water is heavier than gas, and be visible as a separate layer when you drain it. Very quick and easy way to disprove the "necessity" of using an ethanol treatment constantly.

My buddy's Valkyrie (with 6 carbs) hasn't had the carbs touched since it was new in 2001, about 60,000 miles ago. I guarantee he's never put any sort of additive in the gas either, despite my advice to over the winter. He just goes and starts it once a month and has never had any running issues at all. I've never touched the carb on my boat since that was new in 2004, which sits a lot more than my bikes do. I generall throw some stabil in over the winter, but know I've forgotten at least a few years and it was still fine in the spring. Maybe a little "Italian tune up" in the spring but nothing more.

 

[tangoleader57]

Hey all, great info and advise, nice to get some of the technical info as well, thanks wkdenton. Never used Seafoam before, but being a car/ carb guy, definitely believe in the stabilizer, I've seen first hand the crud that this ethanol rubbish leaves behind after not that long of a time period. Used to be, old grandpa parked the LTD in the back 40, go back 10 years later with a battery, pump the crap out of the foot feed and the ole girl would flash up.....this days are gone. All that to ask this, got some Seafoam for the Vmax, going to try the every 4th tank method, and found the bottle isn't very specific about how much to add. Being that the max only hold 3 gallons, how much should a guy add to a full tank??
Thanks in advance for any tips.

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[wkdenton]

Unless you leave your bike sitting around for long periods of time (more than a couple months), using additives at every fill up is purely a waste of money.

A stabilizer and full tank of gas is a good idea if you lay the bike up for the winter. Ethanol free gas too, if you can get it. Otherwise the only treatment your bike needs is being ridden now and then.

If you're concerned that ethanol is separating in your gas, get a clear container and drain your carb bowls into it. If there's any separation, it tends to collect at the bottom of the bowls since water is heavier than gas, and be visible as a separate layer when you drain it. Very quick and easy way to disprove the "necessity" of using an ethanol treatment constantly.

Hi Ryan, I'm glad you and your friend with the Valkyrie have had good fortune over the years. I also own a Honda 6 (CB-X) but in my case it is quite time consuming to remove the carb rack (including a 27-step engine tilting process to gain access) so I don't intend to do so unnecessarily. I guess its just a difference in philosophy bc I believe in insurance (and corrosion inhibitors and antioxidants) so for $0.31 of additional cost per fill up, I'll take the stabilizer every time. As a side benefit it also inhibits rust formation in unlined steel fuel tanks, so there's that, too. I also have six bikes on the road that I share time with, so its a challenge some years just to do enough riding to keep the fuel fresh in all of them.

Regarding phase separation, there are three things to consider:

The first thing is the absolute mess that separated fuel will cause if allowed to course through the carbs; clogged jets and orifices, corrosion, etc. Not good.

The second thing is that when gasahol separates, it lowers the octane rating of the resulting gasoline fraction to the point where it may be unwise to use the fuel. Hopefully the hotrodders on this sight already know what detonation can do to an engine. Not good.

Third thing, once you've seen phase separation in the carb bowls, can you ever be confident that separation has not also occurred in the bulk fuel in the tank as well? My answer is "no" you cannot, because at that point you don't know if the phase separation in the float bowls occurred as a result of evaporation from the carb vents OR if the fuel separated in the tank and then got pumped into the carbs that way.

Anyway, thanks for your input, take care and keep the rubber side down. Peace

 

[[email protected]]

How long does fuel stabilizer last? I bought a bottle of stabil marine grade around 6 years ago.

I used a couple ounces back then and haven't touched it since. Think it's still good?

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[VMAXXIMUM]

Thank you for some great information about fuel and keeping it in tip top condition. The perspective you bring to the table as and end user and chemist is invaluable. I was wondering if old gas can be refreshed by adding a stabilizer?

 

[D-Max2012]

If you cannot get ethanol free fuel, would it be safe to say that tank "A" would have way more phase separation than tank B, if you're looking to store your bike?

 

[wkdenton]

I was wondering if old gas can be refreshed by adding a stabilizer?

Unfortunately, no.

 

[wkdenton]

If you cannot get ethanol free fuel, would it be safe to say that tank "A" would have way more phase separation than tank B, if you're looking to store your bike?
View attachment 56617

All other things being equal, yes.

 

[VMAXXIMUM]

Bill, once again thank you for sharing your expertise and experience. I've done some reading on adding acetone to fuel and I was wondering what your thoughts were?

 

[wkdenton]

How long does fuel stabilizer last? I bought a bottle of stabil marine grade around 6 years ago.

My bottle of StaBil has a notice that reads, "Product can be used for up to two (2) years after the bottle has been opened".

 

[wkdenton]

I've done some reading on adding acetone to fuel and I was wondering what your thoughts were?

I would not do it. All the anecdotal coments about significant increases in mileage are not supported by thermodynamics, especially at the low percentages of acetone (aka dimethyl ketone) that are being added.

Also, and imho much more importantly, acetone is a very aggressive solvent that is capable attacking rubbers and plastics (and expensive paint jobs). Some materials will soften or dissolve, while others will become brittle. Also, acetone can be interstitially absorbed into rubber diaphragms and carb holders causing them to swell and become enlarged. In orher words, CV carb diaphragms, accelerator pumps, fuel pumps, air cut-off valves, vacuum petcocks, etc can all be affected, causing them to perform poorly or fail altogether.

Just say no to acetone. JMHO YMMV BIDI

 

[VMAXXIMUM]

Thank you Bill.