Ferguson MO Grand Jury

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This one is interesting...and just uses facts.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/

A St. Louis County grand jury on Monday decided not to indict Ferguson, Missouri, police officer Darren Wilson in the August killing of teenager Michael Brown. The decision wasn’t a surprise — leaks from the grand jury had led most observers to conclude an indictment was unlikely — but it was unusual. Grand juries nearly always decide to indict.

Or at least, they nearly always do so in cases that don’t involve police officers.

Former New York state Chief Judge Sol Wachtler famously remarked that a prosecutor could persuade a grand jury to “indict a ham sandwich.” The data suggests he was barely exaggerating: According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.

Wilson’s case was heard in state court, not federal, so the numbers aren’t directly comparable. Unlike in federal court, most states, including Missouri, allow prosecutors to bring charges via a preliminary hearing in front of a judge instead of through a grand jury indictment. That means many routine cases never go before a grand jury. Still, legal experts agree that, at any level, it is extremely rare for prosecutors to fail to win an indictment.

“If the prosecutor wants an indictment and doesn’t get one, something has gone horribly wrong,” said Andrew D. Leipold, a University of Illinois law professor who has written critically about grand juries. “It just doesn’t happen.”

Cases involving police shootings, however, appear to be an exception. As my colleague Reuben Fischer-Baum has written, we don’t have good data on officer-involved killings. But newspaper accounts suggest, grand juries frequently decline to indict law-enforcement officials. A recent Houston Chronicle investigation found that “police have been nearly immune from criminal charges in shootings” in Houston and other large cities in recent years. In Harris County, Texas, for example, grand juries haven’t indicted a Houston police officer since 2004; in Dallas, grand juries reviewed 81 shootings between 2008 and 2012 and returned just one indictment. Separate research by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson has found that officers are rarely charged in on-duty killings, although it didn’t look at grand jury indictments specifically.

There are at least three possible explanations as to why grand juries are so much less likely to indict police officers. The first is juror bias: Perhaps jurors tend to trust police officer and believe their decisions to use violence are justified, even when the evidence says otherwise. The second is prosecutorial bias: Perhaps prosecutors, who depend on police as they work on criminal cases, tend to present a less compelling case against officers, whether consciously or unconsciously.

The third possible explanation is more benign. Ordinarily, prosecutors only bring a case if they think they can get an indictment. But in high-profile cases such as police shootings, they may feel public pressure to bring charges even if they think they have a weak case.

“The prosecutor in this case didn’t really have a choice about whether he would bring this to a grand jury,” Ben Trachtenberg, a University of Missouri law professor, said of the Brown case. “It’s almost impossible to imagine a prosecutor saying the evidence is so scanty that I’m not even going to bring this before a grand jury.”

The explanations aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s possible, for example, that the evidence against Wilson was relatively weak, but that jurors were also more likely than normal to give him the benefit of the doubt. St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch has said he plans to release the evidence collected in the case, which would give the public a chance to evaluate whether justice was served here. But beyond Ferguson, we won’t know without better data why grand juries are so reluctant to indict police officers.
 
True.. I wish there was video to see really took place there. multi-witnesses with multi-versions of what happened.

I no longer take what's said in the news, as 100% accurate.

True....I was told this a long time ago. All of the news is accurate....from a certain perspective, it all depends on how you word it.

Unfortunately I "grew up" learning about the law from the inside out. I had a close family member murdered...for the insurance money. I was a chief witness for the prosecution. It was all very involved for being in a small town in Oklahoma.

Because it was a family member, we all went to civil court....for the insurance money. So.....that week, we went to court on Monday, Settled on Tuesday, Turned 18 on Wednesday, Graduated on Thursday, and Told off this family member on Friday.

So one person was arrested in Nov that year, and the other was arrested in Jan. Both preliminary hearings were in Mar, and the first trial was in May. I turned 19 on the day (and I was at the courthouse) when one of them was convicted, and he was sentenced at approx 1 am the next day.

In Oct, I testified against the other one, and they were convicted as well. So...I sat in Judgement of my own Mother, and I do not regret it. It was the right thing to do. She got life without parole.

People are looking at the Michael Brown case all out of proportion, and are forgetting one important thing. Michael Brown made the CHOICE to steal, and rough up the clerk, and go head to head with the police...and then the outcome came.

If he wouldve stayed at home....playing on the playstation, and never made the choice to steal, he would probably still be alive today.
 
That's good information right there..

Unfortunately, we all have faults, being human.
There are evil people in all races.

You raise two babies of different races together, and they'll know nothing about racial hatred.
Until it is introduced from outside forces. That can be family, friend, news, etc.

When some people grow up and use that learned fear / bias, bad things will happen.
Give those same people badges, guns and the law? That's a monster being created.

Most people are basically good people. (Thank GOD), And that goes for all races.
Can you image? We, as a race of humans, could accomplish, if we all got a chance to learn about each other?, without outside influences? That would truly be awesome!!
 
This is what I told someone a few years ago, and it pissed them off. They were bitching because they had 2 masters degrees.....and never made more than 25000 a year, and why shouldnt they stay at home on the couch and live off of the government?

I said something that I have always known in my heart.

I said...."You were NEVER promised a good life. You were promised 1 skill...or 1 ability that you can use to make a good life for yourself. Now.....it is up to you find that one skill, or ability, and foster it, to make a good life for yourself. That is the only thing that you were promised."

It is very EASY to say that "Ive" had a bad life, that I cant do this....or I cant do that. Here is a poem that I learned as a teenager.

Invictus
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.
~William Ernest Henley~

I think it is really EASY to blame race for this issue....I think it takes more guts to say that Michael Brown put his life at risk for choosing the path that he was on.
 
I think it is really EASY to blame race for this issue.

I guess the "Race related" issue is not the crime itself but this. Would THIS same police office respond the same way if it was a Caucasian teen, (same body dimensions and same demeanor being displayed)? Of course, this cannot be answered in hind site.

Please note, I'm NOT saying all police or White officers feels this way. I'm specifically talking about THIS officer.

[I think it takes more guts to say that Michael Brown put his life at risk for choosing the path that he was on.

We make choices in life, some good, some not so good. It's good when we make the right choice, but it wise when we learn from the bad ones.


When I was a teen, I started heading down the wrong path.. Hanging out with my friends cutting class, instead of hitting the books. Well one thing led to another and I was held back in the 8th grade. Not because of my grades, but because of the lack of attendance.. Trying to "fit-in" with the boys.
Well the vice principal told my mom that if she could come down to school, and meet up with the teachers, I could graduate with the rest of my class. My mom refused.. At the time, I hated her for not bailing me out. I felt like warmed over **** when I saw my classmates in their cap and gowns. Now, because of my grades, the next year, they placed me in the highest 8th grade class. That meant nothing because I was even more pissed when I saw all these little kids coming from the 7th grade to the 8th. Well, of course I was on the strait and narrow since then. I realized later on, that my mom did me a great justice my not bailing me out.

Had I stayed on that path, I most likely would not be typing this today.
Thanks Mom.. I know you still looking over me..
 
I guess the "Race related" issue is not the crime itself but this. Would THIS same police office respond the same way if it was a Caucasian teen, (same body dimensions and same demeanor being displayed)? Of course, this cannot be answered in hind site.

Please note, I'm NOT saying all police or White officers feels this way. I'm specifically talking about THIS officer.



We make choices in life, some good, some not so good. It's good when we make the right choice, but it wise when we learn from the bad ones.

Ypu know....for instances like these....I do hope that the officer WOULDNT see it as a race related issue. I do not KNOW....but I have hope in my heart. If you really stop and think about it, the civil rights issues of the 60's were 50 years ago. I have hope that this generation has learned from the mistakes of the past.

You are right my friend...everyone has to make choices...for good or bad...and learn from them. I have learned from mine. My life wasnt easy...but I'm not saying that my life was any better...or any worse than anyone elses. In a lot of ways......everyone has a bad time growing up. A tough time at home...a tough time in school. Its what we choose to DO with this life that matters.

I do think part of the problem is the fact that "everyone gets a trophy now", and that people dont want to realize that they dont get rewarded for simply taking breath. I feel for Mrs Brown....I do. I havent seen every interview with her, but those that I have seen, she has NOT mentioned that her son was a thief, and put himself into a bad situation. I think she wants to say its a race issue, because she doesnt want to admit the truth. No parent wants to admit that their child isnt "good", and that they dont deserve a trophy because they came in last place, and that they need to try harder.

Just my thoughts....as always....
Eric
 
the civil rights issues of the 60's were 50 years ago
Far too many of these kids now days, pay no attention to the not so distant past..
Many of them believe they are invincible, and they know more than those of us that's been down that path.

she has NOT mentioned that her son was a thief, and put himself into a bad situation.
If Mrs Brown ever made the mistake of calling her son an angel, I would have to laugh at that. He was no angel.. But the question remains. Was the crime worthy of the death penalty?

He needed to have his ass whooped in the middle of the street, like the old days. Maybe that would have made him think twice about stealing again.
Even lock his ass up to teach him a lesson. But, to say it was justified that this kid was killed?, na..

I know when I was growing up, you were so afraid of getting the skin ripped off your ass trying to do something like that.
It was not called abuse back then.
Government agencies have taken basic discipline out of schools and punish the parents when they did so. So, what's being created?, A little monster that has no fear.

Action: Take prayer and GOD out of the schools, so that you're politically correct.
Result: Do anything while your alive to anyone you want, because once your dead, it over. They know nothing about an everlasting soul.
Action: Keep the word GOD on your Money.
Result: That what these youngsters worship and will do anything to get it.
 
Was the crime worthy of the death penalty?

Well what we do know is that the altercation ensued, and then He said "Your too much of a p*ssy to shoot me." It all comes down to if the officer was afraid for his life.

That one thing makes it justifiable...or not. Was the officer afraid for his life?:confused2:

Do I think that Michael Brown was afraid of the police.....or even had respect for them? No...I dont.
 
If the shopkeeper had owned a lethal weapon , he could have saved his box of cigarrillos and saved the country and his community a WHOLE lot of money.
 
If you saw the video of him and his accomplice steal the tiny cigars and start to walk out , the store owner / mgr. attempted to stop him from leaving , and the dead thief , M.B. , went after him , knocking him into a display . I firmly believe M.B. would have hurt that clerk bad , if he hadn't basically backed down. " Fear for my life " is all he would have had to say over the dead body of M.B. , with the video camera as back up verification. It was hardly over a box of tiny cigars.
 


Kill a person over a few tiny cigars?
Why not just let him go, and let the nicotine kill him:ummm:

Unfortunately people operate either out of fear....or reward. The promise of reward...IE at your job....makes you work harder, and want to do more. You also operate out of fear.....fear of losing your job makes you work harder...etc.

Unfortunately if you let people like that go....then it is open season, and they will come back and rob you ANYTIME they want cigars....or their friends as well.

I was a criminal justice major in college, and learned something that has always stuck with me. Criminals are different than your normal average citizen. Average citizen believes that if they break the law....they will get caught. A criminal believes that no matter what they do....they wont get caught.
 
HOLY SHIIT! A perfect example of a breech baby having been born unnoticed.....the DR slapped her on the mouth, and she's spent her entire life walking on her hands and talking out her azz since. :biglaugh:

Won't say I'm too surprised though.


:rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200:Where do you come up with stuff like this? :rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200:

I honked boogers all over my screen!! :blink000:
 
A couple of "inconvenient truths"
 

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