First Amendment and your Privacy at Risk

[Traumahawk]

I recall carnivore, and I keep hearing evidence of other detailed monitoring programs. The difference between this and that is that they were/are sniffing and storage devices.

The thought around carnivore specifically was to drop a unit in all major ISPs and datacenters in the us, and let these things eat all relevant data. At some later point if an investigation found it was worthwhile to dig in a judge still had to issue a warrant before anybody could legally look at what it had on file.

This act will require no warrants, and no devices. Just the ability to pressure governments, businesses, and organizations to give up everything they have on somebody. With no notification necessary or legal recourse available to the individual(s) they give up.

As bad as the carnivore programs were, they at least tried to line up with our current laws and procedures, and were of benefit only to high government law enforcement arms. This is far worse both in scope (the amount of orgs eligible to share, and the detail of data that can be shared) and in practice (no due process, warrants, or even notification required).

I agree...what was it....04 or 05...that ATT and telecoms in general got in trouble for sharing data with the government WITHOUT a search warrant? After it all became public THEN telecoms companies suddenly started backing away. The government will do what is in its OWN interest. I think the only government that truly had the people best interest at heart were the founding fathers. They had lived under an oppressive government and didn't want to live that way anymore, and so set the guidelines in place that we wouldn't have to either. If you really stop and think about it, we are trusting a NAMELESS, FACELESS bureaucrat to do what is in me and my families best interest. Unfortunately I believe that if by chance a "good" law is passed, it isn't to actually help people, it is to BUY votes, and so people wont question what is going on in the background. Project paperclip and MKUltra come to mind, and this was at a time that people believed their government to be decent and to care for its citizenry.

Ask ANY Vietnam vet how well the government takes care of its people...I dont think its gotten any better.

"People should not fear their government, Government should fear its people" ~V for Vendetta~

 

[ouchez]

Zack,

Compromising the Internet, and taking away your 2nd Amendment rights, ('SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"), I fear are both major components of Washingtons plan to enslave all of us, especially those of us that believe in true freedom and liberty.

Hands of the Net,!!!, however they, the Feds, are already capable of doing just about anything they want, or will be when the new NSA "black building" comes on line in Utah.

O

 

[85 MAX-fan]

To break particular bill down a bit for those not overly familiar with it. In a nutshell it grants immunity to any corporation or government body that wishes to share private information with a government entity or relevant private organization. This is supposed to be for security purposes but it's not expressly structured as such.

It would give government agencies and many private companies access to your personal communications and financial information and would allow government security agencies like the National Security Agency unprecedented power to access your data including medical records, private emails and financial information – all without a warrant, oversight by any court or due process of law.

I still don't know why you are upset about this. Again if you aren't doing anything wrong you shouldn't have anything to hide. The government agencies in charge of this exist to protect us, and anyone that doesn't support that is up to no good, one way or another. How can they keep us safe if the bad guys can communicate secretly?? And by the way, now that we have socialized health care the government already can access your medical records without a warrant. SO, if you support Obamacare you were in favor of that access already.


This access to your records would require no misbehavior on your part, not even an accusation of terrorism or criminal activity and it would take place without your knowledge or any opportunity to protect your information or your privacy interests. That information could then be passed on to private companies or other agencies or used against you with no real rules or restrictions on who could access it or what hands it would end up in.

It would override virtually every privacy and due process law we have, and even toes against the 1st and 4th amendment as stated.

Zack, those ammendments werewritten hundreds of years ago by racist white guys that had no way of understanding how terrorists would use the internet against us. Exactly what information are you afraid of being made public Zack?
The courts have already ruled that the freedom of speech has limits, why would our government try to pass a law that was not constitutional, and not in our best interest?


Imagine going to court for some misunderstanding or even as a witness of some variety. To have the prosecution side present you with your internet activity and a list of e-mails, friend-only facebook posts, bill payments and subscriptions you may have, etc that are taken completely out of context. This is all legal and fair in a court of law if this passes, and you'll have no recourse against anybody who provided your information which had an expectation of privacy to anybody else.


What about bad guys using instant messaging to communicate criminal activity in a fashion law enforcement can't monitor? Are you in favor of blocking the efforts of the good guys fighting crime Zack?? I mean there is just too much danger that criminals can set up fake identities over the internet to harm our children. Again, if you aren't doing anything wrong why are you afraid?


The supporters of this bill are clueless, and are using international cyber attacks as justification for reintroducing it. Local spying doesn't help with an international problem like that. It's not a good solution to the current problems being used to justify it, but it can have dramatic effects and pretty much craps all over the majority of privacy laws we have in the process.

We need to spy locally to catch the crazy people trying to hurt our kids. There are many instances of killers like the columbine guys we could have stopped if we had monitored what they were doing on line!

 

[Traumahawk]

We need to spy locally to catch the crazy people trying to hurt our kids. There are many instances of killers like the columbine guys we could have stopped if we had monitored what they were doing on line!

All of this can be summed up in one statement...."Does the end justify the means?" Isnt that the same line of thinking that is being used to try and take guns from law abiding people. Those in charge being afraid of what you MIGHT do?

 

[DMAN999]

I have question for you guys,
Do you really think the US Government isn't monitoring you via the net ????
If you believe that, I have a Bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

 

[FootNote]

I have question for you guys,
Do you really think the US Government isn't monitoring you via the net ????
If you believe that, I have a Bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Depends on who you are. This will just make it easier for them.

 

[Traumahawk]

Here is a list of words that ALREADY get you monitored.

Dept. of Homeland Security Forced to Release List of Keywords Used to Monitor Social Networking Sites

http://www.forbes.com/sites/reuvenc...ds-used-to-monitor-social-networking-sites/2/

Now look at the words, and think about some of the conversations that we are having on here. Normal average law abiding citizens....and we are using keywords to get us watched. Do we wanna get watched more?

It wouldn't be so bad...but you can be killed on American soil, for being a suspected terrorist.

 

[Redbone]

I have question for you guys,
Do you really think the US Government isn't monitoring you via the net ????
If you believe that, I have a Bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

What!?! "Their" watching me?:surprise::ummm::hmmm:
It is just the way the govt is going to use to get the sheeple worried and want the govt to protect them from this outside evil. The sheeple will shake their head in unison just like they are doing with the Obama gun registration program, part one.
Goverment by hesteria, you know that old Democratic adage "If you can't dazzle 'em with brillance, baffle 'em with ********...":bang head:

 

[tothemax93]

Here is a list of words that ALREADY get you monitored.

Dept. of Homeland Security Forced to Release List of Keywords Used to Monitor Social Networking Sites

http://www.forbes.com/sites/reuvenc...ds-used-to-monitor-social-networking-sites/2/

Now look at the words, and think about some of the conversations that we are having on here. Normal average law abiding citizens....and we are using keywords to get us watched. Do we wanna get watched more?

It wouldn't be so bad...but you can be killed on American soil, for being a suspected terrorist.

Thevmaxrider is being watched :no no no:. I saw the word toxic in at least 2 places. Ugggh, now I'm being watched.:damn angry:

 

[Traumahawk]

LOL....remember...the government is doing this for our own good....(LOL....sorry I couldnt even say that with a straight face):rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200:

 

[a113ycat]

LOL....remember...the government is doing this for our own good....(LOL....sorry I couldnt even say that with a straight face):rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200:

:rofl_200::rofl_200::rofl_200:I couldnt read it with a straight face!!!