Fork rebuild / overhaul help please

[SvenDGAF]

Right - got everything off and followed the haynes manual, etc. It was a no go with the damper retainging bolt and even tried my neighbour's impact gun. no joy. the damper just rotated inside the slider.:ummm:

So gave up and stripped down, but now i need to get the fork apart.

do I need the damper retaining tool? I know others have made one....

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=3014
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?p=12413

I dont have a workshop or the equipment to make one. Any idea the price / source for the correct tool? or maybe someone may be willing to sell me one (homemade or otherwise)?:worthy:

Damn this is a SOB of a job :bang head:

 

[dannymax]

Right - got everything off and followed the haynes manual, etc. It was a no go with the damper retainging bolt and even tried my neighbour's impact gun. no joy. the damper just rotated inside the slider.:ummm:

So gave up and stripped down, but now i need to get the fork apart.

do I need the damper retaining tool? I know others have made one....

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=3014
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?p=12413

I dont have a workshop or the equipment to make one. Any idea the price / source for the correct tool? or maybe someone may be willing to sell me one (homemade or otherwise)?:worthy:

Damn this is a SOB of a job :bang head:

Sven-I have a damper rod holding tool that I made which I would be glad to lend to you....but I'm not sure it would fit. I made it to fit a '99, which has 43mm fork tubes...your '85 has 40mm tubes.

Actually, for the cost of shipping to the U K, you almost undoubtedly could make one cheaper. The trick is to determine what size the female fitting on top of the damper rod is.

Here is a pic of one I made.

There is a brass bushing at one end (available from any plumbing supply shop) which fits into the female hex on top of the damper rod. That's the fitting that needs to be sized to the damper rod
Then thread in a length of pipe (long enough to extend out the end of the fork tube)
And a "T" to hold onto.

Place the holding tool in a vice, slide the fork onto the holder and put the hex wrench in the bottom and turn.

Hope this helps you, PM me with any questions.

There is 2 pieces of pipe is this one cause that's what I had laying around. :biglaugh:

 

[4gasem]

I have made damper rod holding tools using a wood dowel rod and a rubber foot for a chair. I screw the foot to the dowel rod shave the rubber to fit tight in the fork tube. I then clean the fork tube with a non-chlorinated brake clean and then shove the dowel rod down the tube and then put the dowel rod on the ground with it facing up so the fork tube and bolt should be facing the sky. Then I put as much downward force on it as possible and loosen the bolt. NOW... It's MUCHO easier with an impact because it's banging the bolt loose. I bought a cheap electric impact at Harbor Freight about 9 years ago and I still use it to remove my vehicles wheels and for other things all the time.

Good luck!

Chris

 

[Buster Hymen]

Right - got everything off and followed the haynes manual, etc. It was a no go with the damper retainging bolt and even tried my neighbour's impact gun. no joy. the damper just rotated inside the slider.:ummm:

So gave up and stripped down, but now i need to get the fork apart.

do I need the damper retaining tool? I know others have made one....

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=3014
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?p=12413

I dont have a workshop or the equipment to make one. Any idea the price / source for the correct tool? or maybe someone may be willing to sell me one (homemade or otherwise)?:worthy:

Damn this is a SOB of a job :bang head:

For the pre 93 forks, you need a 24 mm bolt or nut on the end of a long tube. The easiest way to do it is to get a length of threaded rod with two 24mm nuts on the end.

 

[one2dmax]

put the fork back into the bike or a vice. Pull on the lower leg at the same time you are using the impact. "burp" the impact and it will come out. I've done this on numerous sets of forks and have only ever had one set that was difficult. It too eventually came out.

Sean

 

[Akatora]

Hello,

Winter sleep here is allmost over...

The tools you need are shown in the enclosed photo, they are:
- small minus head screwdriver (releasing the air pressure from the fork air valve, for releasing the dust seal, and releasing / installing the oil seal retaining clip)
- 5 mm allen key (releasing / installing the speedometer cable guide)
- 6 mm allen key (releasing / installing the top yoke / bottom yoke clamp bolts - tightening torque 23 Nm)
- 10 mm allen key (releasing / installing the damper rod bolt - tightening torque 62 Nm, use together with T-handle special tool when tightening)
- 17 mm allen key (releasing / installing the fork top bolt - tightening torque 23 Nm)
- 10 mm hex socket (releasing / installing the mudguard bolts)
- 12 mm hex socket (releasing / installing the front axle clamp bolt - tightening torque 20 Nm AND releasing / installing the brake caliper bolts - tightening torque 45 Nm)
- 19 mm hex socket (not in the photo), (releasing / installing the front wheel axle - tightening torque 60 Nm)
- 24 mm hex socket (can be connected to the allen key of same size if it is straight type)
- suitable ratchet for the sockets and preferably lengthening rod between them
- torque wrench(es) for scales 20-70 Nm, that are suitable for the mentioned sockets
- ordinary 12 mm wrench (releasing / installing the front axle clamp bolt - tightening torque 20 Nm)
- special tool for holding the damper rod bolt inside the fork (approximately 750 mm long T-handle tool with 24 mm allen key head as shown in the photo - this is self made) (releasing / installing the damper rod bolt - tightening torque 62 Nm)
- special tool for installing the new oil seals (if you don't have, you can use a center part of a toilet paper / household paper roll as shown in the photo, and finalize the installation by using a small drift and hammer CAREFULLY)
- pliers (releasing / installing the speedometer cable)
- magnetic rod (helps picking up the parts from inside the fork tube)
- measuring glass for new oil
- a container for used oil
- vice (helps with handling the dismantled fork assembly)

The parts you need are:
- new oil seals
- new dust seals
- 451 cc of SAE 10W fork oil for each of the tubes

You should reserve approximately 3 hours for the job of changing the both sides - including the release / installation of the tyre, brake calipers etc. Then you don't need to hurry.

It is better to change both sides same time, as the cost is low and then you have both sides at the same level. Allways when renewing the oil seals, it's better to renew the dust seals as well.


Good luck!unk:

AT

 

[SvenDGAF]

Many thanks for all your replies guys....

Akatora, thanks for that comprehensive tool guide :thumbs up::thumbs up:

put the fork back into the bike or a vice. Pull on the lower leg at the same time you are using the impact. "burp" the impact and it will come out. I've done this on numerous sets of forks and have only ever had one set that was difficult. It too eventually came out.

Sean

Yup, tried this while it was on the bike, still all together, with the sprung tension, and even then wouldn't budge (but it was only a small electric impact driver, not an air one.

Borrowing my neighbours impact driver is now a no go, as he's just gone on holiday, so i guess buying or making that damper retaining tool is my only real option. I dont have a workshop, i do my work out side on the drive... anyone willing to make me a tool? Just give a price + airmail to UK:worthy:

 

[dannymax]

Many thanks for all your replies guys....

Akatora, thanks for that comprehensive tool guide :thumbs up::thumbs up:




Yup, tried this while it was on the bike, still all together, with the sprung tension, and even then wouldn't budge (but it was only a small electric impact driver, not an air one.

Borrowing my neighbours impact driver is now a no go, as he's just gone on holiday, so i guess buying or making that damper retaining tool is my only real option. I dont have a workshop, i do my work out side on the drive... anyone willing to make me a tool? Just give a price + airmail to UK:worthy:

Post # 24 Buster said early model forks take a 24mm hex on the end of a long rod.

Just go to the local hardware store get a 3 foot piece of threaded rod, (2) 24mm nuts, double nut them on the very end of the threaded rod and you have your holding tool.

3 feet of threaded rod will be more than enough to bend the last 6 inches or so to use as an 'L' handle for easier holding.

Total cost of this will be considerably less than having one made and shipped to the U K. And, you will have it today!!

 

[4gasem]

Or buy the factory one... My electric in reverse has some major balls!

Remember to put blue loc-tite on the bolts before reassembly too.

 

[SvenDGAF]

Ok, many thanks for everyone's help so far.... and please be patient with me, i know i'm useless, but i'm trying to learn :biglaugh:

I have plastic pipe to use to drive on the bush and seal.

Had to mail order from a hardware catalogue, but now I have a 16mm threaded rod and M16 24mm (outer) bolts to match.

Now, can i attempt to bend this rod without heat (to make an L shape handle) and it wont snap?

 

[dannymax]

Ok, many thanks for everyone's help so far.... and please be patient with me, i know i'm useless, but i'm trying to learn :biglaugh:

I have plastic pipe to use to drive on the bush and seal.

Had to mail order from a hardware catalogue, but now I have a 16mm threaded rod and M16 24mm (outer) bolts to match.

Now, can i attempt to bend this rod without heat (to make an L shape handle) and it wont snap?

Actually, it is easier to just clamp the end of the threaded rod in a vice (horizontally) and slide the fork tube over it, twisting slightly until you can feel the threaded nuts slide into the damper rod. That will leave both hands free to manage the hex wrench and steady the fork.

I guess another variation (if no vise is available) is clamp vise grips on the end of the threaded rod, hold it vertically between your feet and slide the fork down over the top. That would put the bottom of the fork, and your allen head bolt, at about chest level.

 

[SvenDGAF]

Okay.... managed to do one fork, but the other just kept undoing the bolt on my homemade tool, rather than the damper rod bolt, no matter how hard I double (and then triple) locked it. I guess it would be ok with a weld.

Desperatly need my bike this week, so have installed the new springs and oil etc and left the seal that is weeping on there, and I have ordered this fabled Yamaha tool and a fork seal driver, and I will strip them back down again in a few weeks when I have them.

I just so wanna be able to do this job properly - so there is another job I don't need to rely on the garage to do (the B****rds!)

 

[DanQuin]

Good read. Lots of good tips.

I also recommend the impact wrench/pulling on the cartridge method. I've done it and haven't had a problem. The cartridge bolt is usually pretty corroded in place and the impact makes short work of it. Just "burp" the impact as suggested. Don't be inclined to just hold the trigger.

Just to be one to go against the grain, I prefer straight rate springs over progressive. But anything heavier is going to make a big improvement over the soft springs that the factory put in. The Vmax is a heavy machine.

 

[SvenDGAF]

Rode about 5 miles today, and the seal i replaced is leaking a little (just leaving the fork tube greasy, but not too serious.

Anyway, the ride is a little firmer, especially under braking right before a corner, you dont get the deep dive of the stock springs. Overall a good mod. 20wt oil instead of the standard 10wt too.

It should hold out for a week before i tear it all back down again :bang head:

Many thanks for everyone's support and help. As always, the No1 VMAX forum on the net unk::git:

 

[one2dmax]

hopefully you used OEM seals as the aftermarket seals are junk.

Sean

 

[Transam]

Hi Guys,
Just 1 question the service manual shows that the piston metal
and slide metals are to be changed when changing the seals.
Is this true ? Also for the damper tool. Is it 24mm on the outside
diameter of the nuts ? Hopefully I'll be changing spring and seals
in the next few weeks.
Thanks in advance,
Chris

 

[dannymax]

Hi Guys,
Just 1 question the service manual shows that the piston metal
and slide metals are to be changed when changing the seals.
Is this true ? Also for the damper tool. Is it 24mm on the outside
diameter of the nuts ? Hopefully I'll be changing spring and seals
in the next few weeks.
Thanks in advance,
Chris

Chris, I did not change these when I installed progressives in my '99, just dust seals, oil seals and the copper washer on the bottom bolt...and silkolene oil of course.

I can't tell you for sure what the right size for your '89 would be, it has the early 40mm tubes and the size could be different. Maybe you could get a piece of all thread and some different size nuts....24mm, 23mm, 22mm, 21mm...and see which one fits.

Also, if you have a good snappy air wrench, you may not need a damper tool at all. But it would suck to be part way into the project and have to stop to fab some tool.

You are welcome to use the holding tool I made and just switch bushings on the end to get the right size. If you would like it, I can send it out tomorrow.

 

[Transam]

Thanks Danny,
I'm going to order the seals this Friday. My buddy runs the
college auto program and has air tools galore. I think I'll
try the impact method, maybe I'll get lucky. I'll pm you
if I need to borrow your tool. Thanks for the offer, you
are an officer and gentleman.
Chris

 

[dannymax]

Thanks Danny,
I'm going to order the seals this Friday. My buddy runs the
college auto program and has air tools galore. I think I'll
try the impact method, maybe I'll get lucky. I'll pm you
if I need to borrow your tool. Thanks for the offer, you
are an officer and gentleman.
Chris

At your service sir...thanks for the compliment!! :worthy:

I discovered a little known trick which no one else seems to have tumbled to...leave the oil in, boost the air up a little and then use the air impact.....the air/oil pushing down on the damper should add just enough extra holding power to allow the bottom nut to spin out.

The obvious prollem being the fork tube full of oil under pressure with a small outlet hole at the bottom!!! (Something very similar to this earned me a 'DOH' award not long ago!!)

I really don't recommend this approach Transam!! :rofl_200:

Good luck and if you need to tool please let me know.

 

[SvenDGAF]

I can't tell you for sure what the right size for your '89 would be, it has the early 40mm tubes and the size could be different. Maybe you could get a piece of all thread and some different size nuts....24mm, 23mm, 22mm, 21mm...and see which one fits.

The early forks need a 24mm outer diameter nut- which is called "M16" here in the UK (the inner diameter and the thread size being 16mm)