Gen 2 vs Sport bikes the war continues.....

[customizedcreationz]

Obviously people know I am a sport bike nut and a vmax nut.

I know again this is a Vmax board and obviously it will be Pro Vmax.

But seriously I ve heard the stories people tell, I've witnessed the Vmax guys back down or "not step up", as well as I have had other bikes back down and not step up also on other makes and models.

We all love to embellish our stories, or else they would all sound like this. Red light stop, Harley, light green , Vmax take off, Harley leak oil and stall out....

I ve been around racing alot my whole life. I ve seen amazing things happen.

I saw 4 cylinder "ricer" cars run 8 second quarter miles. I ve witness big block supercharged injected Camaros run 15's in a quarter mile.

I've watched Vmax Mike in my rear view mirror..... :rofl_200: ok you know I always have to throw a Vmax Mike comment in there. But to be honest, Mike was one of the only guys I have ever ridden with that I truly enjoyed riding with and against.

Someone made a comment one time about my turbo Busa when my plenum lifted off the intake and it ran a painful 11 second 134 mph 1/4 mile and said they would have loved to be the Gen 2 Vmax next to me at the time.

I never take offense to anything. But I guess on a comment like that one above, wouldn't you want to race someone and know it was a real race and not a malfunction or something of that nature. You miss a shift, spin the tire etc, those are legitimate issues that I wouldn't consider it being an unfair race.

So my question I guess.......

1 Is a race a race to you?

Example. You pull up to a guy at a stop light, look over, rev your engine, light turns green and you take off and are 5 lengths ahead of him. Is that a race? Was he racing you? Or laughing in his head because there is a cop on the corner watching you?

You pull up, light turns green and you both hammer off, neck and neck and hit 40 mph and all of a sudden your 10 lengths ahead of him. Did you blow his saddle bags off? Or did he hit 40 mph and just let off? Was that a race....?

You pull up, light turns green you both hammer off, hit 100 mph and one of you is a half a bike length ahead of the other. You hit another light and the same scenario unfolds. He gives you a thumbs up and turns left and you go on your way.

2 My bike runs 10's because Jay Gleason rode one just like it and ran 10's on it. "pro riders are paid for a reason, using what they can do on a bike as representation of what normal people can do is silly." Quote about Jay Gleason off the Busa forum.

Do you believe that because Jay Gleason rode a bike and ran a 10, that you could replicate someone that weighs 130lbs suited up and has been drag racing since 1970's?

I am not ruffling feathers, but people seem to get pretty riled up thinking that because a group of racers can run xx time that all riders have to be close to that time.

Running a bike into the 9's is an awesome feat. Running a 9 second bike on a short wheel base is a better feat. The Gen 2 Vmax has a 67" wheels base, thats pretty long. I think 6"s longer than a Gen 1 ? Correct me if I am wrong.

Running a bike into the 8's that is a street bike is down right wild to me.

Now running a street bike into the 7's...... I can't fathom the idea to be honest. Its hard enough for me to think when I throw a leg over any bike that can run 9's and be street ridden anywhere how crazy that is.

Now guys running 6 second grudge bikes..... and riding those on the street. Obviously we are stretching it.

But none the less, there are low 9 second Gen 2 Vmaxes out there. That is bad ass. If the price wasn't that of almost two new Gen 2 Busa's than I might have one.

But without saying I smoked a Gixxer 1k on my Gen 1 Vmax. How many guys really think everyone that owns a bike knows how to ride it?

 

[98Redlne]

Most people who ride bikes DON'T know how to ride them like you are talking about, myself included.

Granted, I like to rev it up, launch hard off the line (for me) and take it up to where I run out of sack or start worrying about how big that ticket will be. Even on my best days there is no way on God's green earth that I am anywhere near as fast as someone who practices and actually runs on the strip. I know that there are guys on here that can wring out nearly every ounce of HP and traction from a launch but I would venture to say that most on here, although very accomplished riders, aren't there as well. Some are closer than others.

It is like anything else, practice makes perfect. If you aren't practicing and playing at a high level then you don't have a prayer of competing with the big dogs.

 

[cgswss]

#1...

My view on this is based on a LOT of street racing in the old days. I used to "go Woodwarding" when I was younger. We did a lot of racing on Woodward, but most people don't mention all the racing we did on less busy roads not far away. At any rate, I saw about a Zillion guys back off at about 60 when it became obvious that they had no chance to win, then tell the guys at Teds that they weren't really racing. I also saw a lot of guys that were 2 car lengths behind, but wouldn't back down until you lifted and they could pass you. And these a$$ holes would say "well I got you at top end." (these would often be rerun on one of the less travled roads where we had a 1/4 mile marked out) At any rate, myself and a lot of the other "regulars" considered 100mph a race if we didn't have a measured distance.

So street racing back in those days were just a bunch of teens in their mom's cars, right? Well one of the cars I drove was a '54 chevy with a built hemi that could only run on alcohol.

#2...

If Pee Wee Gleason can get a road test bike to run 9.90, can I buy one and run 9.90s on the street? OF COURSE NOT! First, when they do a road test, they don't go to the local dealer and pick a bike off the floor. The road test bikes are supplied by the people that sell them. While I'm sure the bikes aren't outright cheaters, they are prepped and often the testers don't mention that "track day" is often accompanied by some factory techs with a Van of spare parts. They normally have the track to themselves, Its prepped with lots of good sticky stuff, and they have a number of very experienced drag racers on board. There is also a good chance that some of those experienced drag racers have made a few runs and the bike has been dialed in before Pee Wee even makes his first run. Then that experienced drag race team will further dial in the bike to get those great times you see in the stats on the last page of the road test.

Thats a long way of saying "hell no, I'm not going to turn a 9.90, hell I'd be happy to be within a sec of that!"

I should also mention that by the time I got my bikes into the 8s, I was riding a purpose build frame with about 12 inches of slick, and I would be on the wheelie bar thru the 1/8 mile!

As far as the gen2 vs sport bike... Well first you have to put a 300lbs. guy on the sport bike and a 120lbs. guy on the max. Then you have to come up with someway to make up for the 30 odd horsepower your giving away with the drive shaft. All that said, If I were the 127lbs. I was when I was running my drag bikes, and had some time to experiment with a gen2, I honestly believe I could beat most crotch rockets in a STREET RACE. On a well prepped Drag strip, I don't think even then I could keep up with a properly set up ZR1400... even with a 300lbs. rider on board.

For the record, we never raced in the same classes, but I did once beat Pee Wee in a time trial...

 

[2stangs69-91]

I have raced thousands of drag races in my days both legal and illegal. Here are the things that bug me. #1 There is always a excuse from who I beat #2 everybodys car or bike is magazine fast until they actually race it..lol bugs the hell out of me, everybodys car runs 10's:bang headwhen you know it would be lucky to hit a 12.) #3 people think it is easy to drag race just because it is a straight line race it takes some skill.(esp on a bike). On my FZ1 I beat a guy 2 times in a row on a BMW1000RR should of never happened..but it did..lol

 

[CaptainKyle]

I pretty much don't consider it a real race unless were on the drag strip & we have at least talked about it in a parking lot etc & then went out to a designated place & raced.

I laugh listening to people stand around & say my bike ,car runs this because the Magazine says so. If you can honestly go out & run in the 9's on a street bike your doing good. I know some people running in the low to mid 8's but its not your everyday rider.

I will also say its not easy to get a stock motor Gen 1 into the 10's . I have squeezed quite few out of mine & it is work. It might be easier for a lighter guy. I will find out this year since I was 204 lbs in my birthday suit & am now down to 175.

 

[customizedcreationz]

I have raced thousands of drag races in my days both legal and illegal. Here are the things that bug me. #1 There is always a excuse from who I beat #2 everybodys car or bike is magazine fast until they actually race it..lol bugs the hell out of me, everybodys car runs 10's:bang headwhen you know it would be lucky to hit a 12.) #3 people think it is easy to drag race just because it is a straight line race it takes some skill.(esp on a bike). On my FZ1 I beat a guy 2 times in a row on a BMW1000RR should of never happened..but it did..lol

Lots of truth in these words.

I always hear how fast someone is until its time to go to the track and put your money were your mouth is.

The bike guys seem more reluctant to show up at a drag strip, I think because its WAY harder to run a bike than a car.

My TA ran 10's eventually, but during its hey day of being a 12 second 4 spd street car, people always told me, my "insert favorite car" runs 10's and we would race and I would beat them by 4 lengths. We would pull back around and he would say " Damn you must have a 9 second car....." my retort would be " No, you just have a 14 second car "......

But yes Craig also hit the nail on the head. Pee Wee Gleason ran a 9.51@143 on a prepped Gen 2 with a slick on back, exhaust, a performance computer etc. Could a normal person run that, heck no. But someone with some track experience I am sure could get close or maybe even better the time.

I think it might be easier for someone to hit that number on a Gen 2 Vmax than say try and match Ricky Gadsons 9.36 @ 147.71 on a stock no air filter lowered 2006 ZX14.

But regardless I guess my point is, bench racing is pretty strong in every motor vehicle sport.

I know there are a few drag racers and occasional attendees to the track here on the board.

I'd like to see more of you guys at the track. I post dates all the time for track days and I ve never seen anyone other than Vmax Mike at the track, but yet I hear how bad ass some peoples bikes are.....

No body needs to prove anything to anyone ( maybe to themselves ), but for the skill I have and some of you others have, I know that some of the smack talkers would probably be a full second slower on a faster bike than some of us here would be.

And I am always 100% willing to help, teach and inform anyone that goes to the track how it works why it works and how to improve on it.

So the next person that tells me that they can run a 9 or better on their stock Gen 2.... prove it to me. You don't have to drive it up to Michigan, just get a time slip or a video, just take it to the track for real and run the number.....because I will and I ll post it :biglaugh:

 

[srk468]

It's not a real race unless its at the track, everything else is just goofing off on the street. Some people have unrealistic expectations of what they'll run, others will run faster than they thought they would. What gets on my nerves is when people talk **** but have never even raced at the track, they don't have any idea how to finesse a clutch or recover from tire spin. People that get out there and actually race and practice their skills are the ones that get my respect...

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[one2dmax]

Also remember that numbers from one track to the next will vary. Historically I am .3 tenths or more faster in Noble Oklahoma then I am at Kansas International. Weather conditions, elevation, humidity, ect.. all factor in. At a sea level track i'd probably be closer to .5 tenths (half a second) with the right conditions.

Sean

 

[twistedmax]

168 on the left was a modded Gen II , 169 on the right was me , first time at the track in 14 years , first time with the Gen II. Mark (itgoes) was there , If I couldn't do it. I wouldn't say I could. based on my weight and the fact that this was the first time in 14 years and first time with this bike I really think I could run sub 10's with a few trips to the track. As for the sport bike side of it I came up on a busa and an r6 this past week end in some twisties , dogged them for a while and they wouldn't play . I'm not saying i'm the best rider out there but I can hold my own, and haven't met a sport bike guy yet that was willing to play. maybe I just live in the wrong part of the country?

 

[Itgoes]

168 on the left was a modded Gen II , 169 on the right was me , first time at the track in 14 years , first time with the Gen II. Mark (itgoes) was there , If I couldn't do it. I wouldn't say I could. based on my weight and the fact that this was the first time in 14 years and first time with this bike I really think I could run sub 10's with a few trips to the track. As for the sport bike side of it I came up on a busa and an r6 this past week end in some twisties , dogged them for a while and they wouldn't play . I'm not saying i'm the best rider out there but I can hold my own, and haven't met a sport bike guy yet that was willing to play. maybe I just live in the wrong part of the country?

Rick if you would have had a 60' time like the guy (Randy?) on the right you would have been very close to the 9's. I think you will be able to get very close even stock.

Now a re-flashed bike has a big advantage launching because Yamaha neutered the Max down low in 1st and 2nd gear. That's the only reason it didn't run sub 10 second 1/4 miles in the magazines. One of the best things the re-flash does is eliminate the bog at launch by simply allowing the throttle to open. The stock ECU limits the throttle opening severely.

 

[one2dmax]

Unless I read that wrong Rick had the better 60' time by a long way. The other guy is obviously making a lot more power due to the MPH difference. He did have a quicker reaction time so would have got there first and probably blew by Rick somewhere around the end of the track.

 

[Itgoes]

Unless I read that wrong Rick had the better 60' time by a long way. The other guy is obviously making a lot more power due to the MPH difference. He did have a quicker reaction time so would have got there first and probably blew by Rick somewhere around the end of the track.

Ha ha....you're right Sean I was looking at the wrong side. Other guy had a pipe and tune....not sure if he was re-flashe at that point.

Some people have improved as much as 2 10ths in their 60' with just a re-flash. So just a re-flash might get Rick into the 9's.

 

[twistedmax]

Unless I read that wrong Rick had the better 60' time by a long way. The other guy is obviously making a lot more power due to the MPH difference. He did have a quicker reaction time so would have got there first and probably blew by Rick somewhere around the end of the track.

You are correct , I was 169 , as you can see in the pic of the bike. I believe Randy may have been spinning giving me a better launch but he made up for it with HP on the top end

 

[Itgoes]

You are correct , I was 169 , as you can see in the pic of the bike. I believe Randy may have been spinning giving me a better launch but he made up for it with HP on the top end

Randy has now run in the 9's at the same track. He was there a couple of months ago.... made one pass....broke into the 9's and went home. He just wanted to say he had done it once.

 

[Itgoes]

Jay Gleason did run a 9.59 with a bone stock engine and re-flashed ECU. There is no doubt that the ECU is what hampers the bike when stock. The throttle by wire limits the throttle openings.

 

[jbretthorton]

I have a buddy (Jody) that has run a 9.40 @143 on a GenII several times... He is also 225 + suited up. On a street tire (240)
I have run many 9.81's and 2's but again, not a factory stock GenII
Just the normal reflash, lowered, strapped exhaust mods...

Mark, I picked up .1 just in 60' er's from the reflash, but more importantly .4 in just the 1/8 mile

 

[woodsman30]

Racing is part luck.. part skill.. part practice..and some people just have faster responses than others. If anything its amusing. Not sure about the whole thing where real racing goes on at the track seen a lot of big money cars and bikes that never seen a track but race other places with real money is at stake not pocket change or pride just high dollars. Just saying.

 

[2stangs69-91]

I agree seen alot of serious races go down on the street. Luck is removed by knowledge and skill. With my Vmax now my Fz1 I have ridden with a ton of different people now and I can say that alot of people buy sportsbikes that just flat can not ride..lol. I have had them not be able to keep up in the hills on my Vmax(lol very sad). I would love to see somebody on a Vmax try to hang with My FZ1 in the hills because it flat flies..but it is all fun

 

[KJShover]

I've seen a few factory tests, they test cars up here all the time, the one bike test I was was in Bakersfield. If anyone believes their, off the showroom floor, ride be it a car, snowmachine, boat, motorcycle..etc. is going to perform like the one in the magazines, should get their noodle examined.

The one test I watched was for a sport bike. The techs were talking bike specs and adjustments, the rider was talking about the feel of the bike, all the while whitecoats and master wrenches were tuning the bike to squeeze out that last .00001% or performance.

They went through spark plugs and gapping, jetting, tire-pressures, oil viscosity, with mirrors, without mirrors. Anything, to get a little bit quicker. I'd be willing to bet before hitting the track the powerplant was removed and blueprinted as well. There is a ton of behind the scenes work that goes in to testing. I was at Bakersfield for about 6-7 hours and only watched that bike make 5 passes.

 

[Rick52]

So a Gen 2 Busa vs Gen 2 Vmax, same exhaust mods and good fuel map, same weight riders and equal skill level. Who might be the fastest in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile?


rick52