Give up and die or Fight

[coffee_brake]

Hang in there RM,
My two cents is: Stop talking with your ex, she is a very bitter lady and you will never say anything that can make her happy. Never give up on your kids!!! As others have said, communicate with them often. I had to fight to get "joint physical and legal" custody of my son and I'm really glad I did. It's been about 25 yrs since the Big D and he and I have a GREAT relationship.

Good luck,
Lew

+ a billion. Fight hard to put your love in front of those kids (not your money, or your well-being, or your emotional health-- but your love and your fatherly caring) and then no matter what happens, you won't wonder what you could have done better.


EDITED: NO no no I didn't mean don't do your part to financially take care of them, I just meant don't be a "money tree" for them.

 

[COP RUNNER]

+ a billion. Fight hard to put your love in front of those kids (not your money, or your well-being, or your emotional health--your love and your fatherly caring) and then no matter what happens, you won't wonder what you could have done better.

" well said "

 

[2stangs69-91]

Wow your ex is a real Bitch, trying to play head games with you like that. The more I read her letter I just got pissed. You know she is pumping your kids with some of the same ********. There is no question in this matter your kids need to come out and see you Get back in touch with the real you, not just you on a phone. They might be pissed for the first little bit but after you guy's get back aquanted it will be all good. Do not let that bitch steel your Kids youth from you. sorry If I offend you with calling your ex names.
Be strong

 

[82ndCowboy]

Sorry to hear about your plight RM.
But I remember when I was a teen, the last thing I wanted to do is spend time with either of my parents. And they were happily married.
Most teenagers are like that I think. Teens as a whole are pretty selfish beings. Don't take it personal.
Sure your ex isn't helping matters by painting you in a bad light. You would think that she would encourage them to spend time with you since your so far away and they don't get to see their father that often. But some people like your ex don't think about things like that till it's too late. Guess that's why she's your ex.

Keep your chin up RM, and by all means keep asking them to come visit you. Eventually they will want to come out and spend time with you. Don't give up on them.

 

[COP RUNNER]

there are alot of intelligent , kind hearted , well rounded people on this forum !

 

[RagingMain]

there are alot of intelligent , kind hearted , well rounded people on this forum !

I whole heartedly agree with this statement. I cant say thank you enough for all the advice. This is the second time this year, first was with the accident, and then now you guys have hit one out of the park. I really sincerely appreciate all the advice and help.

I am forming a plan based on the replies here. The first thing I am going to do is start writing letters and cards. One every day for at least the next month. Just start sharing my self with them, my hopes and dreams, the good the bad, the pretty the ugly. I know the letters will be screened by the ex so it will all be kosher and nothing she could use later. Then I am going to plan a trip out there and just hang with them. If they want to go back to their house or hang with me in the hotel, wont matter. Wont even have to do expensive stuff, just hang and talk. Maybe the library, they all love reading, movies, hang at the mall, playgrounds. My son is seriously into music, I am sure we can do something based on that, my youngest is really into plays and drama, maybe we could write our own screen play or something. My oldest, well she is 17 1/2 so she probably wont come out at all.

I do miss them terribly. I need to reconnect before the distance is too big to overcome. My mission in 09 is to be the best father I can be!!!!!

 

[gamorg02]

I whole heartedly agree with this statement. I cant say thank you enough for all the advice. This is the second time this year, first was with the accident, and then now you guys have hit one out of the park. I really sincerely appreciate all the advice and help.

I am forming a plan based on the replies here. The first thing I am going to do is start writing letters and cards. One every day for at least the next month. Just start sharing my self with them, my hopes and dreams, the good the bad, the pretty the ugly. I know the letters will be screened by the ex so it will all be kosher and nothing she could use later. Then I am going to plan a trip out there and just hang with them. If they want to go back to their house or hang with me in the hotel, wont matter. Wont even have to do expensive stuff, just hang and talk. Maybe the library, they all love reading, movies, hang at the mall, playgrounds. My son is seriously into music, I am sure we can do something based on that, my youngest is really into plays and drama, maybe we could write our own screen play or something. My oldest, well she is 17 1/2 so she probably wont come out at all.

I do miss them terribly. I need to reconnect before the distance is too big to overcome. My mission in 09 is to be the best father I can be!!!!!

RM... i think thats a good plan.. maybe also ask each of them something they want to do and take each out individually? your 17.5 yr old may not want to always go out but maybe she can find something to do with you!

 

[dannymax]

I whole heartedly agree with this statement. I cant say thank you enough for all the advice. This is the second time this year, first was with the accident, and then now you guys have hit one out of the park. I really sincerely appreciate all the advice and help.

I am forming a plan based on the replies here. The first thing I am going to do is start writing letters and cards. One every day for at least the next month. Just start sharing my self with them, my hopes and dreams, the good the bad, the pretty the ugly. I know the letters will be screened by the ex so it will all be kosher and nothing she could use later. Then I am going to plan a trip out there and just hang with them. If they want to go back to their house or hang with me in the hotel, wont matter. Wont even have to do expensive stuff, just hang and talk. Maybe the library, they all love reading, movies, hang at the mall, playgrounds. My son is seriously into music, I am sure we can do something based on that, my youngest is really into plays and drama, maybe we could write our own screen play or something. My oldest, well she is 17 1/2 so she probably wont come out at all.

I do miss them terribly. I need to reconnect before the distance is too big to overcome. My mission in 09 is to be the best father I can be!!!!!

Fargo-I'm really glad to read this post! Yer back in the game, good for you man!! It's hard not to have this stuff knock you down (I'm very familiar with that 'sledgehammer to the chest' feeling when you have to say goodbye to your kids). The trick is to get back up, and try again. It will work out, kids are smart, they can figure out a lot more things than they get credit for.
Keep at it man, the only bad decision is the decision to give up, and I just don't see you doing that!
You have a lot of friends here who will help in any way possible, keep reaching out.

 

[RagingMain]

So back to resurrecting this old thread to give an update.
My son said he wants to come out and live with me. I filed the paper work with the courts this last week. I went out to Va to see my oldest Graduate from HS.
While I was there I informed my Ex of the filing for custody. I figured it was the honorable thing to do instead of just blind siding her. I want to take the high road with this.

This is what I am going to need from you guys.
1. Dos and Donts as far as dealing with her and the courts. Any things you guys might have learned from past experiences.

2. Are there any brothers in Va that would have connections with attorneys or Fathers' Rights Groups???

I have done a lot of research on the internet but need more help. We all know she is going to contest this until her last breath.

Her Husband did ask me one question when I informed them and at the time I didnt have an answer,
His question was "Do you think this is the right time in your sons life to be doing this, to work on your relationship with him"
I guess my answer to this is "If I dont do it now, when will I get the chance?" He will be going to college in 3 years, getting a job and sometime in the future starting his own family. I need to take advantage of the time I have now or I will never get it back.

Thanks again for all your help and support
Cheers
Fargo

 

[gleno]

Your post and the replies in this thread from others who have 'been there', stirred a well of emotion in me.

I've been through my version of the same thing and I have some things to offer.

1) While your ex's reply was typically bitchy, she was right. You cannot demand love from anyone, especially your kids. Love has to be freely given.

2) Enforcing visitation rights is an error. This is your ego talking to your pain.
If you force your kids to pay attention to you with court orders, you are trying to help yourself, not them. You are taking their time not giving yours.

That's how your kids will perceive it and it will only take a throw away bitchy line from your ex to plant that impression in their minds permanently.

3) Avoid the courts because only parasitic lawyers benefit from that course of action.

4) What is most important is that your kids understand that you are genuinely interested in them.

Keep all lines of voluntary communication open to them.

Use MSM, Skype, email, and especially the snail mail to maintain a consistent and predictable rate of contact with them. You can show them that you are reliable, consistent, dependable, interested, supportive and loving by giving them this communication link.

Don't over do it. Sending them a daily is overkill. Once or twice a week (reliably and predictably) is plenty.

5) Let them know what you are doing, sharing plans, thoughts, opinions etc is all good. You can show them who and what you are.

6) It’s vital that you ask questions about what they are doing, what plans they have etc.

When they tell you, you should think about that and offer your thoughts and impressions of their activities, friendships, sports activity, friends etc because it shows your are interested and that you are listening.

7) Do not turn your communication into therapy for you.

If you are hurting bad, tell the forum or your therapist or your bartender.

Don't dump it on the kids because they have enough of their own stuff to deal with.

It's enough to let them know that you miss them and it would be great to catch up and spend time together when they can.

8) Don't demonize your ex by bad mouthing her.

If your kids have any kind of closeness to her you will turn them against you by attacking her. You attack her and they will defend her.

9) As unpalatable as it sounds you need to involve your ex in any plans you want to make to spend time with your kids.

If you are both involved you cannot be demonized as the spoiler of everything that does not work out.

If she veto’s access to your kids it will be obvious to your kids that it was her decision to veto and not yours.

10) Be a strong adult role model for your kids.

Your kids do not want to see an insecure, emotionally distraught and inconsistent father.

This scares the hell out of kids.

Children need to know that their parents can cope with tragedy, stress and insecurity.

They need to know that you are solid and dependable when they need it.

Be the man.

11) Don’t expect anything in return.

Unconditional love is what a parent gives.

Children and adolescents are perceptive and sensitive but they are self-absorbed and self-interested.

They are not mature adults and they don’t want to be, so don’t expect it from them.

I understand the pain your are going through right now. I’ve lived through my version of it.

Someone in the forum said it’s like a sledgehammer in the chest. That’s a great way of describing heart-ache.

When a loving father is involuntarily separated from his kids it is like dealing with a death. The loss seems unbearable and unrelenting.

Time will lessen the heart-ache but doing what I’ve just outlined in the eleven points above could well cure it.

Finally, the effort of carrying anger and pain around with you is exhausting. It will rob you of your dreams and aspirations and motivation.

Get on with building a life for your self and show your kids how to deal with your circumstances. They may go through this themselves at some point in their lives and your good example will teach them how to manage it.

Peace brother.

 

[4gasem]

I think Gleno has hit the nail on the head here...

I believe moving a child at that age from his school, friends and home is a mistake. He's going to have to start over at the age of 14/15 which can be VERY hard to do and it seems like when it happens kids tend to get wrapped up with the "wrong crowd" for some reason. These have just been my observations through the years.

I think you need to make SURE he knows what he's getting himself into here. It's going to blow chunks for a while. Talk about a culture shock... VA to CA is a big difference IMO.

Good luck,
Chris

Oh and did you have kids VERY young? You don't look old enough to have a HS grad...

 

[Transam]

If I read this right Fargo's son wants to move with him
correct ? Can't really see anytime where it would be wrong
to work on a relationship with your son. The longer you wait
the greater the distance between you. I think the most important
thing is to let them know you will always be there for them.
As with anything there is a thousand variables and god knows
I'm probably not the one to dispense advice. just hate to
see a good guy in so much pain.
Hang in there bro,
Chris

 

[dannymax]

Fargo, I would certainly expect your ex to fight this with everything she's got, if she didn't, you sure wouldn't want your kids with her! She's just doing her job.

Probably a bubble gum and lolli-pop approach but, is there any way you and your ex could work out a deal where your son could come and stay with you for a few weeks during the summer? I'm assuming he has little to no exposure to your CA life style.

Possibly she would be more willing to discuss something like that if the threat of a court case wasn't hanging. Nobody wins in a court battle....everybody looses, you, your ex and each of your children are all affected by a long nasty legal action. It really is in your best interests to try to avoid that.

Good luck brother,
danny

 

[ghostntheshell]

Hmmm.

I know when children are a certain age, they are hyper sensitive to what their parents are feeling. If mom is mad at you, it will most positively rub on your children. Because they live with mom, her opinions are most likely to be picked up.

I will not suggest forcing them to come visit you. No one wins in that situation. Instead, build the relationship. If they are cool with talking to you on the phone, keep that going. Try and build that. Use that communication as your starting grounds.

As for the 17 year old girl - good luck getting through to her anytime soon. Both boys and girls of that age have very strong opinions, and are usually pretty sure about their view on the world - as they are just beginning to decide who they are and what they are. BUT that being said - they too come around. Usually after a few hard life lessons.

I am not suggesting give up and die.

I am suggesting fight for your children - but on their terms.

Ultimately you can build that relationship, even if moms not the best influence as such.





Good luck man. Never give up on the children, and I don't think you will.



p.s - going to visit them is likely a good starting ground too.
Rent a hotel or something, even if it's only for a couple nights or so.
________
free vaporizer

 

[RagingMain]

Your post and the replies in this thread from others who have 'been there', stirred a well of emotion in me.

I've been through my version of the same thing and I have some things to offer.

1) While your ex's reply was typically bitchy, she was right. You cannot demand love from anyone, especially your kids. Love has to be freely given. Completely agree with this.

2) Enforcing visitation rights is an error. This is your ego talking to your pain.
If you force your kids to pay attention to you with court orders, you are trying to help yourself, not them. You are taking their time not giving yours. Sort of agree with this. I do agree to giving of my time and not taking of theirs. At the same time children have to learn that life isnt always about what they want, as Coffe Break said " Kids often can't make rational decisions unless presented with valid, rounded viewpoints, and the ex isn't offering that"


That's how your kids will perceive it and it will only take a throw away bitchy line from your ex to plant that impression in their minds permanently.

3) Avoid the courts because only parasitic lawyers benefit from that course of action. We are going to try mediation before courts.

4) What is most important is that your kids understand that you are genuinely interested in them. They do, they really do.

Keep all lines of voluntary communication open to them.

Use MSM, Skype, email, and especially the snail mail to maintain a consistent and predictable rate of contact with them. You can show them that you are reliable, consistent, dependable, interested, supportive and loving by giving them this communication link.

Don't over do it. Sending them a daily is overkill. Once or twice a week (reliably and predictably) is plenty.

5) Let them know what you are doing, sharing plans, thoughts, opinions etc is all good. You can show them who and what you are. I do

6) It?s vital that you ask questions about what they are doing, what plans they have etc. I do

When they tell you, you should think about that and offer your thoughts and impressions of their activities, friendships, sports activity, friends etc because it shows your are interested and that you are listening.

7) Do not turn your communication into therapy for you.

If you are hurting bad, tell the forum or your therapist or your bartender.

Don't dump it on the kids because they have enough of their own stuff to deal with. I dont

It's enough to let them know that you miss them and it would be great to catch up and spend time together when they can.

8) Don't demonize your ex by bad mouthing her. I dont, usually I say good things about her or just refain all together.

If your kids have any kind of closeness to her you will turn them against you by attacking her. You attack her and they will defend her.

9) As unpalatable as it sounds you need to involve your ex in any plans you want to make to spend time with your kids. I do

If you are both involved you cannot be demonized as the spoiler of everything that does not work out.

If she veto?s access to your kids it will be obvious to your kids that it was her decision to veto and not yours.

10) Be a strong adult role model for your kids. I try my best

Your kids do not want to see an insecure, emotionally distraught and inconsistent father.

This scares the hell out of kids.

Children need to know that their parents can cope with tragedy, stress and insecurity.

They need to know that you are solid and dependable when they need it.

Be the man.

11) Don?t expect anything in return. I dont

Unconditional love is what a parent gives.

Children and adolescents are perceptive and sensitive but they are self-absorbed and self-interested.

They are not mature adults and they don?t want to be, so don?t expect it from them.

I understand the pain your are going through right now. I?ve lived through my version of it.

Someone in the forum said it?s like a sledgehammer in the chest. That?s a great way of describing heart-ache.

When a loving father is involuntarily separated from his kids it is like dealing with a death. The loss seems unbearable and unrelenting.

Time will lessen the heart-ache but doing what I?ve just outlined in the eleven points above could well cure it.

Finally, the effort of carrying anger and pain around with you is exhausting. It will rob you of your dreams and aspirations and motivation.

Get on with building a life for your self and show your kids how to deal with your circumstances. They may go through this themselves at some point in their lives and your good example will teach them how to manage it.

Peace brother.

I really appreciate your input, it is well received.

 

[RagingMain]

I think Gleno has hit the nail on the head here...

I believe moving a child at that age from his school, friends and home is a mistake. He's going to have to start over at the age of 14/15 which can be VERY hard to do and it seems like when it happens kids tend to get wrapped up with the "wrong crowd" for some reason. These have just been my observations through the years.

I think you need to make SURE he knows what he's getting himself into here. It's going to blow chunks for a while. Talk about a culture shock... VA to CA is a big difference IMO.

Good luck,
Chris

Oh and did you have kids VERY young? You don't look old enough to have a HS grad...

Chris is right, my son adamantly wants to come out here. We have had lengthy discussions that is NOT going to be the Disneyland Dad syndrome. He is not going to just leave home with his mother to think he is going to have an easy time of it when he comes out here. There are expectations, rules, chores, discipline and consequences. Most importantly unconditional Love.

He and I have a lot in common. I am going to teach him how to SCUBA, get him into Mtn Bike racing, enroll him in guitar and piano lessons. He can play just about anything by listening to it. Plus he is learning to read music and he plays 5 other instruments proficiently. He is a boy scout and we are working towards his Eagle Scout.

And yes I had my first child when I was 21. I am told quite often I look young. Makes it easier when I troll the High Schools. Just Joking
Cheersunk:

 

[kaboom]

I have no advice to give....

You are a good guy......your kids know it....

Good luck with all of it....

Sorry I don't have more to offer:confused2:

 

[gamorg02]

Chris is right, my son adamantly wants to come out here. We have had lengthy discussions that is NOT going to be the Disneyland Dad syndrome. He is not going to just leave home with his mother to think he is going to have an easy time of it when he comes out here. There are expectations, rules, chores, discipline and consequences. Most importantly unconditional Love.

He and I have a lot in common. I am going to teach him how to SCUBA, get him into Mtn Bike racing, enroll him in guitar and piano lessons. He can play just about anything by listening to it. Plus he is learning to read music and he plays 5 other instruments proficiently. He is a boy scout and we are working towards his Eagle Scout.

And yes I had my first child when I was 21. I am told quite often I look young. Makes it easier when I troll the High Schools. Just Joking
Cheersunk:

sounds like your intentions are all good. how long would your son want to stay for? for good? i worry abit about the transition in HS as chris had mentioned thats all....

it sounds great that you are making movements and also that the expectations are set properly!