Got her running but.....

[wcochran913]

So, with a lot of help from you guys I got my 85 VMax running finally. However the low end throttle response is real sloppy (carbs rebuilt, and synced ( they are pretty close. Imma check that at the garage again tomorrow)). She is dripping constantly from the water pump weep hole (rebuild?). And the speedo is making the most God awful noise intermittently.

All that being said, I am IMPRESSED!!
It's so smooth with the acceleration that I thought the clutches were slipping until I looked at the speedo and saw I was doing almost 90!

So the final question for now is what is a running mechanically sound 85 VMax with 95k miles on it worth? Im thinking I should sell it cause of the mileage. I believe the old owner had it rebuilt, but he's dead, so I can't verify that and I do not want to do an engine rebuild. (And maybe cause I know a guy with a georgous 85 with 12k and a bad fuel pump who is terrified of it and will let it go for next to nothing)

Thanks again guys!!

 

[KennyR]

So, with a lot of help from you guys I got my 85 VMax running finally. However the low end throttle response is real sloppy (carbs rebuilt, and synced ( they are pretty close. Imma check that at the garage again tomorrow)). She is dripping constantly from the water pump weep hole (rebuild?). And the speedo is making the most God awful noise intermittently.

All that being said, I am IMPRESSED!!
It's so smooth with the acceleration that I thought the clutches were slipping until I looked at the speedo and saw I was doing almost 90!

So the final question for now is what is a running mechanically sound 85 VMax with 95k miles on it worth? Im thinking I should sell it cause of the mileage. I believe the old owner had it rebuilt, but he's dead, so I can't verify that and I do not want to do an engine rebuild. (And maybe cause I know a guy with a georgous 85 with 12k and a bad fuel pump who is terrified of it and will let it go for next to nothing)

Thanks again guys!!

Just buy the other one and keep your old one for a spare! Two are always better than one.
Actually , do a compression test on your engine to get a better idea of it's true condition.

 

[Radioguylogs]

You already know the right move is to acquire the bike with 12k miles.

Then you just have decide what to do with 95k mile bike. You could keep it runing, use it for spare parts and/or part it out, or sell it outright.

 

[Fire-medic]

low end throttle response is real sloppy

That makes me think the carbs need another going-through. By 'sloppy,' I think you mean they aren't smoothly picking-up rpm's. In my experience, that's usually due to crud in the pilot jet(s). One or more of them.



What does the inside of the gas tank look like? It should be shiny metal everywhere. It may be coated by a prior owner. That probably would appear to be a dull white. Not shiny bare metal. If the gas tank interior is corroded with rusty metal, it does no-good to clean the carbs as they will have one or more of their pilot jets clogged before you finish a tank of gas. There are multiple ways to clean a gas tank. I like removing the electrical connection for the fuel reserve, and putting on a blank-off plate you can easily fabricate from a 1/8" or greater piece of metal. Then fill the tank with 6% cleaning vinegar and check the progress every 12 hours. I suggest putting the tank inside a plastic tub big-enough to hold it, if the blank-off plate leaks. 6% cleaning vinegar can be bought at your supermarket or HD or Lowe's, and probably Ace Hardware or similar. Don't use the 30% cleaning vinegar at full-strength! Yes you can get cleaning vinegar at a variety of strengths. You can also use it again, so save the gallon containers it comes in. If you want to pay $$ for Evaporust, be my guest.

I strain my vinegar as I'm storing it, a fine screen or cheesecloth, to remove any rust particles.

Most important! Immediately after emptying the gas tank of vinegar, rinse it thoroughly, and use an air source like a hair dryer or compressed air and a 1/8" I.D. pipe to blow-dry the tank thoroughly. If you say, "screw that, I'm gonna let it air-dry," by the time the inside does air-dry, it will have already have flash-rust on it! Once you have things dried, use some of that last oil change inside the tank to thoroughly coat the inside of the gas tank. That will keep it from rusting until you can put it back onto the bike.

To return it to service, remove the fuel level/reserve blank-off plate, and drain any oil, That should allow all but a couple of teaspoons of oil to empty. If you're worried about the oil, you can replace the blank-off plate, and throw a cup of mineral spirits into the tank, and agitate it, so that the mineral spirits washes all inside walls of the gas tank. Then remove the blank-off plate, and let the mineral spirits out. re-install the reserve gas electrical sender, install the gas tank, and fill it with regular gas. Hook-up the fuel pump, turn on the ignition, and let the fuel bowls fill. Turn-off the ignition, and use the carburetor float bowl drains, one-by-one, to drain the float bowls. Use a fresh empty container, and empty it for each float bowl draining, so you can see what the gas looks like. I use a clear glass container, and that gives me a good idea of how-clean the float bowl is, before starting the engine.

Use a place outside to drain the gas, and have a fire extinguisher close-by. An 'on' water hose is a good idea too. Do not drain gas near any gas-fired appliance like a gas-water heater. Gas fumes can travel 30 ft. to an ignition source to ignite!

This is one way to approach cleaning a gas tank. You can use electrolysis, but I wouldn't do that inside, or leave it unattended, like leaving it working inside the garage, and going to bed. There are other rust-removal products, but probably none as-cheap and as safe as cleaning vinegar.

Probably after 36-48 hours, the gas tank should be clean, for moderate rust.

 

[MaxMidnight]

So the final question for now is what is a running mechanically sound 85 VMax with 95k miles on it worth?

Like any transaction it is worth what the buyer wants to pay and I suspect with that sort of mileage not a lot as it would most likely be used as a spares bike.
That said, provided that the engine is sound, compression is good and it doesn't use oil why not ride it?
The water pump is repairable and the speedo cable possibly needs a good clean and lubricating.
It is probably worth a lot more to you than anyone else.

 

[wcochran913]

Yes. Sloppy is slow to respond off idle, sometimes it doesn't decelerate as fast as I think it should, kinda hangs. Mid and high range is super smooth. So I'm sure they need resynced, but the idle response I thought, and was assuming someone was going to say pilots. Was really hoping not to tear the carbs back off.



I never had the tank off of it, but I did drain it to a few drops of old gas. What is the most efficient way to drain it? I tried to use the pump but it kicks out after 6 seconds or so and I have to reset the ignition to get it to cycle again, for 6 or so seconds, rinse repeat. Ended up using compressed air to blow it out the fuel line. (Low psi).



The tank does have some spots around the filler neck but the inside looks to have been coated at some point, a long time ago.



You say this like there was no fuel filter on in these bikes? Or is the minute trash that makes it thru the filter causing the issue because of the design of the carb itself? I don't mean to seem like an argumentative ass with this. Just genuinely curious as in all my years with old bikes and carbs I've not ever seen particulate clog a carb this quickly. Usually clean the bowls once every few thousand miles....



If it is for sure coated and I need to recoat it due to bad job or degradation or whatever reason, do I just recoat it with your procedure or how do I go about getting the old stuff out?



Also what is the most efficient way to pull the tank? Thru the swingarm?

 

[wcochran913]

Yes. Sloppy is slow to respond off idle, sometimes it doesn't decelerate as fast as I think it should, kinda hangs. Mid and high range is super smooth. So I'm sure they need resynced, but the idle response I thought, and was assuming someone was going to say pilots. Was really hoping not to tear the carbs back off.







I never had the tank off of it, but I did drain it to a few drops of old gas. What is the most efficient way to drain it? I tried to use the pump but it kicks out after 6 seconds or so and I have to reset the ignition to get it to cycle again, for 6 or so seconds, rinse repeat. Ended up using compressed air to blow it out the fuel line. (Low psi).







The tank does have some spots around the filler neck but the inside looks to have been coated at some point, a long time ago.







You say this like there was no fuel filter on in these bikes? Or is the minute trash that makes it thru the filter causing the issue because of the design of the carb itself? I don't mean to seem like an argumentative ass with this. Just genuinely curious as in all my years with old bikes and carbs I've not ever seen particulate clog a carb this quickly. Usually clean the bowls once every few thousand miles....







If it is for sure coated and I need to recoat it due to bad job or degradation or whatever reason, do I just recoat it with your procedure or how do I go about getting the old stuff out?







Also what is the most efficient way to pull the tank? Thru the swingarm?

 

[Onetwomany]

Yes. Sloppy is slow to respond off idle, sometimes it doesn't decelerate as fast as I think it should, kinda hangs. Mid and high range is super smooth. So I'm sure they need resynced, but the idle response I thought, and was assuming someone was going to say pilots. Was really hoping not to tear the carbs back off.







I never had the tank off of it, but I did drain it to a few drops of old gas. What is the most efficient way to drain it? I tried to use the pump but it kicks out after 6 seconds or so and I have to reset the ignition to get it to cycle again, for 6 or so seconds, rinse repeat. Ended up using compressed air to blow it out the fuel line. (Low psi).







The tank does have some spots around the filler neck but the inside looks to have been coated at some point, a long time ago.







You say this like there was no fuel filter on in these bikes? Or is the minute trash that makes it thru the filter causing the issue because of the design of the carb itself? I don't mean to seem like an argumentative ass with this. Just genuinely curious as in all my years with old bikes and carbs I've not ever seen particulate clog a carb this quickly. Usually clean the bowls once every few thousand miles....







If it is for sure coated and I need to recoat it due to bad job or degradation or whatever reason, do I just recoat it with your procedure or how do I go about getting the old stuff out?







Also what is the most efficient way to pull the tank? Thru the swingarm?

 

[Fire-medic]

The smallest portal in the carbs probably is the pilot jet, times four. Yes to the small particulate material getting past the filter and clogging the pilot jets.

Synching the carburetors will help the response and the idle.

I detach the throttles at the white nylon junction box beneath the left Yamaha scoop.

There is a drain plug on the bottom of the gas tank.

A thread to help with gas tank removal and cleaning: https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/gas-tank-removal.45385/#post-463164

Using a pressure washer with an extension can blast-away the failed tank liner. You can also try a local radiator shop as they may offer tank scouring. Be aware they may not be gentile with your exterior paint. And do not forget to remove the fuel reserve device in the bottom of the gas tank before turning it over to someone.

 

[Onetwomany]

That’s how I did mine, hope it helps

 

[wcochran913]

Dead on the side of the road. Clutch slipping so bad I can almost idle the bike. Checked the thread on clutch issues. There's a link for tear down and it tells me that it's forbidden??

 

[wcochran913]

Lmao. Let the bike cool and I can put it in 2nd and let the clutch out and hold the bike back.. I put shell 15w 40 in yesterday. Could it be the oil?

 

[MaxMidnight]

Dead on the side of the road. Clutch slipping so bad I can almost idle the bike. Checked the thread on clutch issues. There's a link for tear down and it tells me that it's forbidden??

If the condition is still present try gently loosening the bleed nipple and see if any fluid is ejected. If so that would suggest that the m/c piston is fully returning and retaining pressure in the system.
Dismantle and clean the m/c piston, seal and bore paying to the bleed back hole at the bottom of the reservoir.
Have you bled the clutch and if not do so. Reverse bleed and tie the lever back over night.

I put shell 15w 40 in yesterday. Could it be the oil?

Assuming it is intended for motorcycles and does not have friction modifiers then no.

 

[wcochran913]

If the condition is still present try gently loosening the bleed nipple and see if any fluid is ejected. If so that would suggest that the m/c piston is fully returning and retaining pressure in the system.
Dismantle and clean the m/c piston, seal and bore paying to the bleed back hole at the bottom of the reservoir.
Have you bled the clutch and if not do so. Reverse bleed and tie the lever back over night.


Assuming it is intended for motorcycles and does not have friction modifiers then no.

I did have to bleed the clutch to get it working. It bled right up

So I just did as you said and almost got fluid in my eye!! I will be rebuilding the master. Is it possible that the hose is bad? Similar to a brake hose?

 

[Radioguylogs]

Might as well rebuild the slave while you have the system drained to do the master. Might avoid a second surgury and increases the chances that your problems will be gone.

 

[MaxMidnight]

I did have to bleed the clutch to get it working. It bled right up

So I just did as you said and almost got fluid in my eye!! I will be rebuilding the master. Is it possible that the hose is bad? Similar to a brake hose?

If it is the OE hose then yes.
I work on the principle that if it ain't broke don't fix it. I take Mr Radioguylogs point but doing the slave isn't a big job so should it be an issue you can address that when necessary. In the meantime you will have kept some of your hard earned in the wallet and have more riding time.

 

[wcochran913]

It was def the bleed back hose in the master. Thank you Radioguy. I had pulled the slave when I first got the bike. It was good. No need to work on it, just cleaned and put back together. It is the OEM hose on the bike (probably not the original it's too clean for the bikes history). It was definitely the bleed back hole. Tore the m/c apart and it was pristine inside, just dirty. Cleaned it all up, removed the blockage from the bleed back, and good to go.

Also drained the fuel tank to get another look Fore Medic. I shoved my inspection camera down in there this time, I think it's been done once, a long time ago in a land far away, and then cleaned out at some point as there's weird patterns of staining, but no real rust. Did not have time to resync the carbs, will do that this weekend at the latest.

Saturday I thought that bike was fast. Sunday with the clutch working properly, I was truly frightened by the bike. Haven't had a bike pull the wheel under acceleration in a Long time. I haven't been surprised by that kind of acceleration since the first time I rode my h2 20 years ago!! There is a slight hesitation when the vboost kicks in. But it's miniscule, so I'm not that worried about it. Most likely if I tear that far back down into the bike, I'm going to stage 7 anyways so....

I do think it's loud. Like super duper loud. It's at least as loud as my cat only 2 brother racing system on my Harley! It has factory pipes, the rivots are still in place, so it doesn't appear that it's been modified. Is this a thing? Or are they probably gutted and reassembled properly?

 

[Parminio]

Might as well rebuild the slave while you have the system drained to do the master.

That.

You in all likelihood have slave issues as well, it's just that the master is the one you can see so you think it's the only culprit.

 

[Fire-medic]

A collapsed hose acts like a one-way valve. If it pressurizes, the wheel cyl (car/truck), or caliper, or the slave cyl. can cease to function. To release the pressure, you need to open the bleeder valve, so the cyl/caliper/clutch pressure can release. As you've found, the small bleeder port in the front of the master cyl closest-to the banjo bolt can also build pressure, causing malfunction of the master cyl, and a build-up of pressure. When you use one of your wide's sewing needles to probe the hole, and to poke it clean, the force of the pressurized master cyl. will shoot brake fluid a considerable distance, and there goes your new paint-job!

There are many threads on here about an obstructed port in a master cyl, and what happens when it's cleared.

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/brake-caliper-rebuild.50293/#post-504399

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/c...anging-clutch-plates.49356/page-2#post-493976

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/clutch-slave-cylinder-replacement.45011/ (picture, below, the small geyser of brake fluid from the forward port closest-to the banjo bolt)



https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/reverse-bleeding-clutch.47305/#post-472136

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/front-brake-help.47321/#post-472468

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/front-brake-wont-bleed.28868/page-4#post-468199

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/couldnt-shift-into-neutral-when-hot.44074/#post-452700

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/w...r-vmax-today-part-2.8470/page-476#post-414815

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/unusual-clutch-problem.29762/#post-320228

These have good write-ups on various issues of hydraulic systems, either brake or clutch, on bikes, and many have pictures.

 

[wcochran913]

I'm getting there. Had the master cleaned out and replaced all the fluid again Sunday afternoon. Synced the carbs again that evening, and took her for a 70 mile shake down today. Idles good, revs good, derevs good, shifts good. Clutch is working great. Fan is not kicking in. Was just reading on tshooting that for next day it's not raining. Low fuel light comes at 80 miles from fill-up.... Then carbs ran dry. Gonna have to pull that tank after all. Guessing the main pickup is icky.