85 Vmax. When I go to fire up the bike it makes this awful clunking, clanging, box of rocks sound while the starter is cranking, Have had the bike for a few years now and this problem has been getting worse, it used to crank normal and only make the funny sounds for a moment here and there, but now it does it the entire time it’s cranking. Bike still runs fine. What exactly could it be?
Horrible Starter Noise
- Thread starter Whaven
- Start date
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You have a failing starter clutch. This is a good time to change the OEM 2-pole to a 4-pole starter. Later models were 4-pole motors. If you do a search for '4 pole starter,' you can find info on swapping out one for the other.
You can swap out your starter clutch for the one you have, but starting performance is better with the 4 pole motor.
I suggest adding your location below your avatar. Start that in the upper-right screen corner. Once people know where you are, someone may be willing to help you fix it, or direct you to a shop where they know what they're doing, for a reasonable price. OEM is always better than the alternative.
You can swap out your starter clutch for the one you have, but starting performance is better with the 4 pole motor.
I suggest adding your location below your avatar. Start that in the upper-right screen corner. Once people know where you are, someone may be willing to help you fix it, or direct you to a shop where they know what they're doing, for a reasonable price. OEM is always better than the alternative.
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Gotcha, so new starter clutch and upgrade the starter is the direction I should head?
I had the same problem some months ago.
The issue comes out in cold days , or when battery is very low on charge.
The "sound" of rattling bricks inside the motor at startup scares the hell out of me , so I decided to swap the starter clutch with the 6 roller "heavy duty".
Never had the problem since then.
This is the roller :
The issue comes out in cold days , or when battery is very low on charge.
The "sound" of rattling bricks inside the motor at startup scares the hell out of me , so I decided to swap the starter clutch with the 6 roller "heavy duty".
Never had the problem since then.
This is the roller :
1st point of call for me would be - check your battery. Is it in good condition & charging properly.
Fully charged battery should be around 13V though anything app. 12.5 should be OK. It should hold that near that level for at least a week. App.11v or less is 'flat'.
You should be getting app. 14V across terminals when the bike is running & charging the battery. Anything less than that indicates alternator trouble.
Fully charged battery should be around 13V though anything app. 12.5 should be OK. It should hold that near that level for at least a week. App.11v or less is 'flat'.
You should be getting app. 14V across terminals when the bike is running & charging the battery. Anything less than that indicates alternator trouble.
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keith eacott
Member
Had the same problem, which suggests a weak starter roller clutch, so I ordered, received and fitted a super dooper heavy duty 6 roller clutch. It worked successfully, once!, then would not engage at all. (chinese I suspect.) I examined the original starter clutch and concluded that it was still in good shape, except the roller springs were weak. Tried to purchase after market springs. I could find every size except the required 4.5mm o.d., so I stretched the old springs back to what I thought reasonable, refitted, and hey presto! works like a charm.
keith eacott
Member
keith eacott
Member
starter motor is in constant mesh, so low battery will not make any difference to the starter clutch engaging.
All I can say is that charging the battery made clattering stop on 2 different occasions. I made no other changes. I did it the 2nd time as this had worked the 1st time.
one2dmax
Well-Known Member
Low speed cranking is WAY harder on the clutch then with a fully charged battery. Quickest way to cause clutch failure is to keep cranking on it when it's cranking slowly.
My father who was a Master Mechanic for most of his life once told me that if you change your battery every year or two, you will almost never have charging or starter issues. The starter doesn't get as hot and the alternator is not always having to compensate for a deficient battery. I have literally driven hundreds of thousands of miles without ever having any electrical related breakdowns. Also, in my job as a Heavy Equipment Mechanic, we have no concerns about swapping out old batteries in favour of new ones whenever a starter or charging problems occur. In my way of thinking about it, a battery is very cheap in comparison with being stranded on the highway or having to change a starter or charging system. Batteries are much better than they used to be but it still works for me.
My 2005 VMAX was making the clacking noise on cold starts for a couple of seconds. Other issues caused me to replace the battery & then the clacking got worse. I had no clue what was happening. I looked on the Forum and found Fuel Pump as being the issue. I spoke to mechanics and they said if it’s ok starting after the first one of the day, not fuel pump. Then someone suggested Cam Chain. I had bike towed to a shop, same mechanic that has worked on it for years. They eliminated all the lay mechanic issues, ignition, stator, cam chain etc & identified it as Starter. 2.5 hours to get to that. After waiting a week for Starter was replaced, mechanic said is is Starter Clutch - another 2 weeks. I did consult this forum and did not see clutch mentioned when searching for Clacking. Hopefully I can ride this bike on planned trip. Not complaining and it’s not the forums’ fault but I had to type in starter clutch to get this info.
Sorry you didn't have better luck here, right off the bat.
For the life of me, I cannot see how a fuel pump would ever cause a mechanical din like a failing starter clutch. The typical noise report for a starter clutch on its way out, is to describe it as a 'box of rocks,' though a better simile might be a can of rocks. A No. 5 metal can of rocks.
You need to be generous in your search words. 'Clacking' didn't turn up anything for you. Entering 'failing starter clutch noise' had better results, see for yourself.
https://www.vmaxforum.net/search/608409/?q=failing+starter+clutch+noise&o=relevance
Here are 6 pages of starter clutch information. Troubleshooting, inspection, remove/replace, etc:
https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/h...-your-starter-clutch.16294/page-5#post-444794
This thread is a good one for any new owner or an owner who has questions:
https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/new-vmax-owner-faqs-new-members-please-read.21240/
Removing a starter, and bench-testing it for turn-over and torque, off the bike, should reveal quickly and at no cost other than labor (and that's 'free' if you're the one doing it) whether or not the starter motor is bad. The 2 brush starter motors on the VMax are not as robust as the newer 4-brush starter motors.
Ok, eliminating the starter motor as the culprit, the only thing left is the starter clutch. Having to replace that is not too-difficult, if you know what you're doing. That's why we have easy access to the factory manual. Copy the file to your computer and print out a copy and put it into a loose-leaf binder for the garage or wherever you work on the bike.
https://dn790009.ca.archive.org/0/i...ice-manual/yamahavmaxvmx12-service-manual.pdf
A good thread for anyone hearing 'clacking:'
https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/awful-noise-starting-warm-engine.47895/
For the life of me, I cannot see how a fuel pump would ever cause a mechanical din like a failing starter clutch. The typical noise report for a starter clutch on its way out, is to describe it as a 'box of rocks,' though a better simile might be a can of rocks. A No. 5 metal can of rocks.
You need to be generous in your search words. 'Clacking' didn't turn up anything for you. Entering 'failing starter clutch noise' had better results, see for yourself.
https://www.vmaxforum.net/search/608409/?q=failing+starter+clutch+noise&o=relevance
Here are 6 pages of starter clutch information. Troubleshooting, inspection, remove/replace, etc:
https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/h...-your-starter-clutch.16294/page-5#post-444794
This thread is a good one for any new owner or an owner who has questions:
https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/new-vmax-owner-faqs-new-members-please-read.21240/
Removing a starter, and bench-testing it for turn-over and torque, off the bike, should reveal quickly and at no cost other than labor (and that's 'free' if you're the one doing it) whether or not the starter motor is bad. The 2 brush starter motors on the VMax are not as robust as the newer 4-brush starter motors.
Ok, eliminating the starter motor as the culprit, the only thing left is the starter clutch. Having to replace that is not too-difficult, if you know what you're doing. That's why we have easy access to the factory manual. Copy the file to your computer and print out a copy and put it into a loose-leaf binder for the garage or wherever you work on the bike.
https://dn790009.ca.archive.org/0/i...ice-manual/yamahavmaxvmx12-service-manual.pdf
A good thread for anyone hearing 'clacking:'
https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/awful-noise-starting-warm-engine.47895/
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Thanks. I am basically at the mercy of shop. No bike guys to hang out with, due to one screwed up work schedule. My friends all work on cars and jeeps - this stuff flies I’ve their heads.
Come on here and ask questions, try our other resources including your use of the search function, and we will try to get you squared-away. Probably almost anything happening to you, has been documented on here leading to a successful conclusion.
thanks. I have learned one thing, never buy a 17 year old bike with less than 25 thousand miles and actually ride it.
If you ask Sean Morley about the longevity of our bikes, he'll tell you that higher-mileage bikes shouldn't be discounted from being considered for ownership. Buying an older motorcycle has some considerations even if it has accumulated an average of only 1470 mi/year. Yamaha has good parts availability for the Generation 1, even though the newest one was manufactured in 2007. It helps that in many ways, a 1985 is interchangeable with that 2007 model year. That can work to an owner's advantage as older models can usually have the 'better' parts retrofitted onto older models. The starter motor going from 2 brushes to 4 brushes is one example, and the Yamaha Royal Star design starter clutch, modified, is another example. The fact the Gen. 1 had a longer market time than Henry Ford's Model T means there are a lot of bikes to choose from, used parts aren't difficult to source, and there is a large body of knowledge on their strengths and weaknesses, and how to fix them when an issue occurs.
It always bothers me when I read of a so called 'mechanic' who adopts the principle of 'if I replace enough parts I'll eventually fix the problem'.
When you take a bike in to fix a specific problem then both parties are entering a contract to do just that.
If they replace (say) the starter motor and it doesn't fix the problem then it is unreasonable to expect the customer to pay.
If they do this then I would want to be given the displaced material so in the event of a dispute the evidence is available to prove it was not the cause of the problem. I would also want a written explanation regarding the tests they did to confirm the starter was faulty.
They may have you by the short and curlies whist they have the bike but once it is home and you have all of the displaced material you are in a position to take action to recover the costs of bad diagnosis.
I spent many years working for motor manufacturers and we insisted that only those who were trained to repair the fault did the diagnosis, that a full write up of the repairs including test results were available together with the displaced material. Not available? No pay.
That is the very least any customer should expect.
Mr Medics advice to ask questions here is good; we may not be able to give a precise diagnosis but we can usually point you in the right direction or, if you aren't doing the repair, suggest the questions you should be asking to establish if the repairer knows what they are talking about or just full of bull.
From Mr Gmbinders experience I trust he won't be going anywhere near his 'mechanic' again?
When you take a bike in to fix a specific problem then both parties are entering a contract to do just that.
If they replace (say) the starter motor and it doesn't fix the problem then it is unreasonable to expect the customer to pay.
If they do this then I would want to be given the displaced material so in the event of a dispute the evidence is available to prove it was not the cause of the problem. I would also want a written explanation regarding the tests they did to confirm the starter was faulty.
They may have you by the short and curlies whist they have the bike but once it is home and you have all of the displaced material you are in a position to take action to recover the costs of bad diagnosis.
I spent many years working for motor manufacturers and we insisted that only those who were trained to repair the fault did the diagnosis, that a full write up of the repairs including test results were available together with the displaced material. Not available? No pay.
That is the very least any customer should expect.
Mr Medics advice to ask questions here is good; we may not be able to give a precise diagnosis but we can usually point you in the right direction or, if you aren't doing the repair, suggest the questions you should be asking to establish if the repairer knows what they are talking about or just full of bull.
From Mr Gmbinders experience I trust he won't be going anywhere near his 'mechanic' again?
They didn’t charge me for the starter. But the bill was high. I stupidly let them replace rear tire (Michelin commander iii)., as I am headed on a long trip, should have done that in Spokane. Anyway. The bike starts a lot better. It’s beer really hot here, so go up into the mountains
