I fear the worst...

[one2dmax]

Yes, it sounds like the trans has crapped out to me. Upside is that it isn't all that hard to do. You can upgrade to an overdrive 5th and install solid engine mounts easily.

The segment will be the newer design but it doesn't sound like it's an issue anyway.

The dogs on the gear are probably worn and will progressively get worse.

Our dealers here will also not let anyone test ride any bikes. It's a ******** deal and if you have current motorcycle insurance they will cover anyone elses bike you would happen to be riding if you borrowed it.

Once it's in gear the clutch, drum, and forks have no relationship to the problem. If it did not go into gear then I would say they could be bad.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

sean knows his ****, i'd listen to him...

in MA i walked into a dealer in summer of 07 and asked to test ride a couple of (used ) ducati's and honda vtx's. I was bored and was pretending i was interested. They also had a vmax there but it wasn't operational. I took the ducati's and honda's out on the roads, no questions asked, all you had to show was a motorcycle license....

i don't know if i'd ever buy a machine (bike/car, etc) without riding it....

now there's no saying u'd get it over 6k rpm's enough to witness the problem but you definitely would have had a better chance.

 

[4gasem]

Dealers around here have NO issue with used bikes! It's the new ones they won't let you ride.

I rode my SV1000S with one mile on it and the Vmax had one mile on it and it was also NEW. I had ridden a Vmax before so it wasn't anything new to me so I just rode off into the sunset with it.

I WOULD take it back to those guys though.

Sean says it's not HARD to remove the engine and split the cases and such but it isn't EASY either. It's time consuming and heavy as hell, plus you have to have the tools to do it all. Not a lot mind you but more than some have. Get someone to help you unless you don't care about scratching the crap out of the frame and other items. For those that have done it a bunch it's easy.

Good luck!

Chris

 

[Heretic]

I would for sure go back to the dealer and see what, if anything, they are willing to do about the issue. An honest dealership should stand behind a product they sell, even it was used. They may not fix it for free, but may help you with the cost.

 

[maxcruiser]

I agree with the other fellows here, bring the bike back to the dealer and see what they will do for you.

As far as doing the job, it is very labour intensive but not extremely difficult job to do - here's a link to give you a better idea on what needs to be done to fix the problem. It's a gen1 venture bike, but the engine block is the same as the vmax.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=508

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[coffee_brake]

OK thanks folks. I'm really, really bummed about this. I gave up a perfectly good-running Harley for what appears to be a worn out junker.

I'll call this dealership but I have little hope they'll do anything about it.

Who here has actually pulled an engine themselves and split the cases? The site where the guy tears down the Venture is a great help. Looks like he didn't need a whole pile of specialized tools.

Now...the damage seems to be just on second gear itself?
I need to know what to look for, for parts. Do I need a new second gear, and do I also need a new one of whatever second gear meshes with? What about the shifting forks? Drum? What else?
I'm looking for a place to begin. I see the Venture guy's parts list, but my second gear is just beginning to show this damage. Do I need everything he got?

I *can* do the work in my tiny garage. I *can* get a few riding buddies to help with the lifting. The guy who I sometimes part out bikes for--he's qualified to undercut the gear and I can work off the labor parting out anoher machine.

Folks I'm not prepared to spend a bunch--If this is more than a few hundred bucks then I'm going to have to sell the bike because I just don't have extra money and I refuse to go into dept. Labor, however, is not a problem. If I understand what to do, I willingly will work as long as it takes.

So...I need to find a gear/drum/fork, or fix the one I've got?




Again, thanks for the information, everybody. I'd appreciate anything ya'll have to offer. Sources for used parts, other links to work on this engine, and especially other things to check when I get in there that might be showing wear....IF I get in there.

 

[lankeeyankee]

I have pulled 4 engines out of my VMAX over the past 6-7 yrs. I have 2 late model transmissions 99 and an 03 with less then 15K on both of them.
Its really hard to tell what parts you need until you split the cases and pull the trans out.
This job isnt for the unexpierenced. Pulling the motor out of a VMAX is back breaking work. Getting the engine back in is a real challenge..
As I stated if your wanting a complete transmission I will sell you the 99 or the 03 for $400.00. complete and I will stand behind it with no shifting problems.
What I would do is have a friend take it to the dealership and use it as a trade in and giv it back to them..
Not to seem like a smart ass. But no test ride no buyer.
Sorry about your luck.. But the clutch has nothing to do with a transmission popping out of gear. Its the dogs which hold the gears in that are rounded and slipping out under deaccleration. That bike has been beat on! I have romped on my VMAX and put it to its test and then some and never had any tranny problems.. But I also know how to shift a motorcycle,.

OK thanks folks. I'm really, really bummed about this. I gave up a perfectly good-running Harley for what appears to be a worn out junker.



Who here has actually pulled an engine themselves and split the cases? The site where the guy tears down the Venture is a great help. Looks like he didn't need a whole pile of specialized tools.

Now...the damage seems to be just on second gear itself?
I need to know what to look for, for parts. Do I need a new second gear, and do I also need a new one of whatever second gear meshes with? What about the shifting forks? Drum? What else?
I'm looking for a place to begin. I see the Venture guy's parts list, but my second gear is just beginning to show this damage. Do I need everything he got?

I *can* do the work in my tiny garage. I *can* get a few riding buddies to help with the lifting. The guy who I sometimes part out bikes for--he's qualified to undercut the gear and I can work off the labor parting out anoher machine.

Folks I'm not prepared to spend a bunch--If this is more than a few hundred bucks then I'm going to have to sell the bike because I just don't have extra money and I refuse to go into dept. Labor, however, is not a problem. If I understand what to do, I willingly will work as long as it takes.

So...I need to find a gear/drum/fork, or fix the one I've got?




Again, thanks for the information, everybody. I'd appreciate anything ya'll have to offer. Sources for used parts, other links to work on this engine, and especially other things to check when I get in there that might be showing wear....IF I get in there.

 

[maxcruiser]

CB, I have done a few 2nd gear fixes over the years. No special tools needed accept for the for the press needed to take the lock washers off the gear set - the one on the venture site made of wood works great and is cheap. As far as how much it will cost depends on part source and exactly what is damaged - also need an engine gasket set.

If it only pops out of 2nd gear on decelaration (after hard accelaration) than more than likely need shift fork(s) and shift drum. If it pops out under hard accelaration in 2nd gear than 2nd gear dogs are rounded also and need to be backcut or new gear.

This job is 90% labour and 10% parts - I would suggest doing a compression check b/4 starting to see condition of the engine itself b/4 considering doing the tranny work.

Mike

 

[coffee_brake]

Thanks Lankee and Mike. Lankee, I may have to contact you or Sean for some parts.

I'll talk to my buddy the mechanic today. He mostly works on the older bikes that the dealership won't touch and has nothing to gain by BSing me, I want him to ride the bike. I can do the compression check today too. But the dang thing really seems to be in good shape, I can't find a rounded fastener or cut wiring or a single chunk of burnt rubber underneath. It was obvious that the coolant and final drive had been maintained. No signs of neglect, other than the mud I pulled out of the clutch MC reservoir. So maybe it was just piss-poor riding. I've adjusted the shifter down a bit, just to eliminate the "duh"-fix factor. When the dude rides it, he'll tell me absolutely for sure where the problem is.

I have split the cases on one machine, my $50 project (at least until this Vmax showed up) KZ440. But I can lift that whole twin motor myself. There was nothing wrong with the bottom end of it but I got the thing to learn with, so I did take it all the way down, measuring everything for service limits. Top end rebuild, put it back together and it's running and shifting just fine and waiting to be re-wired. It was going to be on the streets by Spring, until this tranny episode.
So I think I'm not necessarily comfortable with this bigger job, but not a babe in the woods about it either.

Thanks so much for the information. Now I know what to do next, see the condition of the rest of the motor and then price out parts.

Lankee I like your suggestion to trade it in, I wish I had cash to put with it on a better Vmax, there's not a single other motorcycle in the world I want.
They already sold my Harley but I don't want it back anyway.

 

[one2dmax]

It will cost more then a few hundred bucks but it can be done on the cheap if you only want to fix the worst parts.

There are two sides to the dogs, the upshift and downshift sides. The downsift side will be what is worn if it drops off when you let off the throttle. There will be other wear on other gears too.

Removing the engine is very easy if you know the tricks. Don't use the manual procedure as you will fight it. It can even be done with one person with the right tricks and tools.

You need:
Basic 3/8th Socket Set (I like deep sockets myself). In that set you will mostly use: 10, 12, 14, 15, 17, and 19.
1/2 Inch socket to get the swingarm pivots out (29mm??)
#2 and #3 phillps screwdriver
Basic Pliers
Wrench Set (same sizes as note in the 3/8th sockets).
ATV type jack or Pair of Jackstands.
Floor Jack.
Allen Wrench Set (plus I like to use allen sockets)
Torx bit (don't remember the size right now)
Impact Screwdriver and #3 phillps bit Socket (the type you hit with a hammer so you need a hammer too).

That should about do it other then the press if your gear you need to replace is under the tension clips on the secondary shaft. Air tools will help speed the process up but not needed.

Likely it will need the shift forks, shift fork shafts, possible shift drum, 2 gears (the bad gear plus the gear it mates in to). All the cover gaskets, I like to replace the couple of seals (shift shaft and clutch pushrod). I don't have my list right now but the most expensive parts are the gears and shift drum.

We do offer the rebuild services and even have a few different methods for shipping. But you can probably do most of the work yourself. Of course the other options would be to replace the engine but you don't always have good luck with used ones (my luck has been better then 50/50). We also offer larger engine conversions for more power too.

Me and a friend can have an engine out from scratch in under an hour. Then apart withing another hour. It takes longer to go back together. I don't even know how many we do in a year. I do it everytime I build an engine too so it goes in and out.

If you want more info feel free to call or email me for some tips on engine removal and dissassembly. Of course I can send an email with one of our 1300 build sheet costs too. I do currently have one 85 engine on hand that needs a trans (already apart and waiting to see what any potential customer would want since we have overdrive options too).

Fargo (AKA RagingMain) can tell you how easy the engine removal is. To me the hardest part of the repair is cleaning up the old gaskets from the side covers.

[email protected]
Sean Morley

 

[coffee_brake]

Sean you are a scholar and a gentleman, excellent post.

The shifter was not aligned like it was supposed to be by the manual. Last night I put it right and flushed the mud out of the clutch fluid and didn't sleep very well, worrying.

This morning I test rode just to make sure moving the shifter didn't help. Well, I think it did. I was positive I was pushing all the way through for each shift but now, I can't make it pop out of gear on decel at all. I will hold back on my joy, however, because I *can* feel the engine buck the instant I shut the throttle. Is this normal? It's not clunking, I can just feel a fast hard flexing in it.

I got the motor a little warm before I tried pulling it to 8k rpms, and then I kept trying until the motor was good and hot--it never slipped out of first, second or third. I never got it into fourth or fifth at high RPMs. In fact, I never have yet because now is not the time of year to hit triple digits in my over-enforced area.

If the engine movement is a sign of things to come, then I can start saving up for the inevitable, and I see that I *can* do it myself with what Sean just posted, it's no different than the 440 project, just heavier and way more stuff to remove (and a lot more valuable of course). As of this morning, the shifter's a little hard to reach with my boot, but second gear is working like it should.

Should I celebrate, or start saving up for parts?


Many, many, MANY thanks for all this help, I'm surprised over and over how you folks are willing to help...

 

[maleko89]

Thanks Lankee and Mike. Lankee, I may have to contact you or Sean for some parts.

I'll talk to my buddy the mechanic today. He mostly works on the older bikes that the dealership won't touch and has nothing to gain by BSing me, I want him to ride the bike. I can do the compression check today too. But the dang thing really seems to be in good shape, I can't find a rounded fastener or cut wiring or a single chunk of burnt rubber underneath. It was obvious that the coolant and final drive had been maintained. No signs of neglect, other than the mud I pulled out of the clutch MC reservoir. So maybe it was just piss-poor riding. I've adjusted the shifter down a bit, just to eliminate the "duh"-fix factor. When the dude rides it, he'll tell me absolutely for sure where the problem is.

I have split the cases on one machine, my $50 project (at least until this Vmax showed up) KZ440. But I can lift that whole twin motor myself. There was nothing wrong with the bottom end of it but I got the thing to learn with, so I did take it all the way down, measuring everything for service limits. Top end rebuild, put it back together and it's running and shifting just fine and waiting to be re-wired. It was going to be on the streets by Spring, until this tranny episode.
So I think I'm not necessarily comfortable with this bigger job, but not a babe in the woods about it either.

Thanks so much for the information. Now I know what to do next, see the condition of the rest of the motor and then price out parts.

Lankee I like your suggestion to trade it in, I wish I had cash to put with it on a better Vmax, there's not a single other motorcycle in the world I want.
They already sold my Harley but I don't want it back anyway.

Coffee, it could've been caused by improper shifting. A lot of higher rpm shifting is hard on the tranny.

 

[KJShover]

I can just feel a fast hard flexing in it.

These puppies to tend to flex on occasion, thats why some use braced swingarms, solid motor mounts, frame braces or all of the above.

Here is a couple pics showing the Dale Walker frame brace and the Cycle One Off braced swingarm. Sean puts out a fine braced swingarm as well as a few others out there, so there are options for ya.

 

[one2dmax]

I would drive it and see how it does. The driveline has a lot of lash in it which is normal. You can inspect the rear diff to see if the pinion nut is broken which is a common issue too. If the trans does start to act up again then you can start saving. Either way I would say that the trans has some wear and will eventually need to be repaired.

The engine weighs over 230 lbs but will cost you more to rebuild then the 440 will (doing an equal amount of rebuilding). It also puts out more HP per cubic inch then the 440 does. It will also not be worth as much if you have the correct engine for the correct car but it's also cheaper to buy the bike then the car so it's all relative (keep in mind I have more then 30 old musclecars too).

Sean

 

[coffee_brake]

Fantastic. If I don't need to blow all my cash on tranny parts, then I can get one of Sean's seats!

So now I'm wondering, how do you folks, especially Lankee since you mentioned it first, go about shifting the Vmax? I never really thought about learning riding habits that would make life easier for the tranny. I'd like to, to prevent having to replace second gear any sooner than necessary.


Yesterday I parted out a 600cc Yamaha engine (to pay for last week's maintenance stuff for the Vmax). The bike went down with tranny problems and I could see just how bad the shifter forks were gouged, second gear dogs all rounded off. Perfectly good motor otherwise.
I don't want this to happen to any of my bikes. How can I take it easy on the tranny and still ride the bike well?

How do you people shift?

 

[82ndCowboy]

When my body gets thrown backwards at take off I have to pull myself forward using all my arms and leg strength, that causes my foot to pull on the the shifter, which causes it to shift into second, and then the process repeats itself 3 more times.

:eusa_dance:

One of these days I'll learn to let up on the throttle.

 

[coffee_brake]

Smartass.......













:looser::looser: :looser:

 

[82ndCowboy]

Yeah... sorry... I couldn't resist!

The Captain made me type it!