Looking for Advice for Changing Brake Fluid

[The Chicken Man]

Hello everyone,

I am looking to change the brake fluid on my Vmax. My bike is a 2009, and while I do like to keep the bike as original as possible, my brake fluid is looking a little too original. I've noticed slight brake dragging too which I'm thinking may be related.

So my question for you today is if the process to change the brake fluid is different on this 2nd Gen than my old 1st Gen. Particularly my concern because of the ABS. I know on some cars a scan tool is required to actuate the pump in order to get all the old fluid out of it. Is that a similar case for these bikes? Or is the method different maybe?

I'm new to all this technology so any advice you may have for a newbie like me will be greatly appreciated!

 

[russ731]

Hello everyone,

I am looking to change the brake fluid on my Vmax. My bike is a 2009, and while I do like to keep the bike as original as possible, my brake fluid is looking a little too original. I've noticed slight brake dragging too which I'm thinking may be related.

So my question for you today is if the process to change the brake fluid is different on this 2nd Gen than my old 1st Gen. Particularly my concern because of the ABS. I know on some cars a scan tool is required to actuate the pump in order to get all the old fluid out of it. Is that a similar case for these bikes? Or is the method different maybe?

I'm new to all this technology so any advice you may have for a newbie like me will be greatly appreciated!

View attachment 89787

Yes, the procedure is different for Gen 2 Vmax.
‘I am not an expert but here’s what I would do.
1) Find a service manual for your bike. You should be able to find a reprint on eBay. It has extensive book learnin on the brake system.
2) Reference page 1-37 of the service manual which references a Yamaha made dangle called a “Test Coupler Adapter”. It’s just a little wiring harness that is designed to plug into the ABS pump in place of the original. It is jumpered on one end.
3) Pages 1-19, 4-60, and 4-61 all reference this tool.
you will almost certainly be unable to buy one but maybe somebody here on the forum has one.
I think the FJR1300 used the same. (FJ1300?).
‘Having said all that,, it might not be necessary to even activate the ABS pump to change the brake fluid.
I’m ashamed to say my 09 needs a brake fluid change too and I haven’t had time to do it yet.
Brake fluid will ruin everything it touches so make sure to wrap plastic / cover ‘ protect everything.
A GUY

 

[russ731]

Sorry got cut off,,,,
A guy who has done it before told me to try using a Mityvac hand pump attached to the bleed fitting.
‘I bought one but haven’t used it yet.

 

[russ731]

Hello everyone,

I am looking to change the brake fluid on my Vmax. My bike is a 2009, and while I do like to keep the bike as original as possible, my brake fluid is looking a little too original. I've noticed slight brake dragging too which I'm thinking may be related.

So my question for you today is if the process to change the brake fluid is different on this 2nd Gen than my old 1st Gen. Particularly my concern because of the ABS. I know on some cars a scan tool is required to actuate the pump in order to get all the old fluid out of it. Is that a similar case for these bikes? Or is the method different maybe?

I'm new to all this technology so any advice you may have for a newbie like me will be greatly appreciated!

View attachment 89787

The Test Coupler Adapter is Yamaha Part # 90890-03149.
If you can’t find any help and it turns out you do actually need the adapter let me know.
I have one and can take some photo’s for u. You should be able to reproduce one as they use standard connectors

 

[MaxMidnight]

Without wishing to state the bleedin' obvious, the Service manual has the answers you want, see p3-24.

 

[Coastal Grey]

Sorry got cut off,,,,
A guy who has done it before told me to try using a Mityvac hand pump attached to the bleed fitting.
‘I bought one but haven’t used it yet.

The Mighty vac is definately a game changer I use it on all brakes 4 wheeled and 2 for a $100 it’s well worth the investment!!!!!

 

[Redrum]

In all my vehicles I remove all the fluid from the reservoir once a year, or when it starts to discolor, and put in new. Except my drag race car. I've had the same DOT 5 in that for 20 years. I don't recall rebuilding a caliper or master cylinder on a vehicle I used. The one exceptions is I let my Corvette sit for about 5 years and now the 50 year old master cylinder has issues.

 

[ShawnD]

Yes, the procedure is different for Gen 2 Vmax.
‘I am not an expert but here’s what I would do.
1) Find a service manual for your bike. You should be able to find a reprint on eBay. It has extensive book learnin on the brake system.
2) Reference page 1-37 of the service manual which references a Yamaha made dangle called a “Test Coupler Adapter”. It’s just a little wiring harness that is designed to plug into the ABS pump in place of the original. It is jumpered on one end.
3) Pages 1-19, 4-60, and 4-61 all reference this tool.
you will almost certainly be unable to buy one but maybe somebody here on the forum has one.
I think the FJR1300 used the same. (FJ1300?).
‘Having said all that,, it might not be necessary to even activate the ABS pump to change the brake fluid.
I’m ashamed to say my 09 needs a brake fluid change too and I haven’t had time to do it yet.
Brake fluid will ruin everything it touches so make sure to wrap plastic / cover ‘ protect everything.
A GUY

The test coupler is for testing the anti-lock part of the brakes. It isn't required for changing fluid. Changing the fluid is exactly the same as any other bike. The advice given about a mityvac is good.

 

[The Chicken Man]

Thank you everyone for the advice!

I was able to get the job done with much ease because of your help. I now have fresh fluid in my front brakes, back brakes, and clutch hydraulics. I wouldn't say there is any less drag though. I will summarize what I learned below to leave more info here for future readers.

So the basic steps for replacing your brake fluid are to...

1.) Bleed out your old fluid normally.
Service manual: Section "BLEEDING THE HYDRAULIC BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS)" Pages 3-24 thru 3-25, steps a thru i.

2.) Bleed out your abs until.

The service manual does state to do this. As stated above, there is a special tool used for this procedure but it is not a necessity. All you need to do is jump two terminals on the "ABS test coupler" connector located behind the left side cover. It is the electrical connect that goes to nothing. Otherwise just follow the service manuals instructions, it's super easy.

Again, as stated above, it is the same procedure as on an FJR1300. I found this video on YouTube to be particularly helpful:

Service manual: Section "HYDRAULIC UNIT OPERATION TESTS” 4-59 thru 4-62.
Test coupler adapter: Part No. 90890-03149




3.) Bleed out your brake fluid again.

Bleeding the ABS unit should push the old fluid that was in it into the main lines, and suck some of the new fluid you just added into the unit at the same time. Now all you gottta do is bleed out the fluid again the normal way to get that last little bit of old fluid out.
Service manual: Section "BLEEDING THE HYDRAULIC BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS)" Pages 3-24 thru 3-25, steps e thru m.

I used Prestone AS800Y DOT 4 synthetic brake fluid for all three hydraulic systems. I purchased two 12oz bottles and have probably 2/3 of a bottle left over.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004QQ721Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Thanks again everyone for the advice! Hope this info can be of help to others in the future.

 

[ShawnD]

The service manual states to bleed the abs unit only when the something has been disassembled, hose loosened or replaced or there is something wrong with the braking operation. Show me in the service manual where there is a disconnect between the abs unit & the rest of the lines between either master cylinder. Draining the fluid from either the front brake or the rear brake using a mityvac is pulling fluid from the master cylinder, up the line to the abs unit & down the line to the caliper. There is no separate fluid for the abs unit. The process for bleeding is no different from bleeding a non-abs system so I don't believe there is any truth to 'old fluid' that resides in the abs unit that is separate from the rest of the system. If it was, you'd have a completely separate bleed process for the abs unit itself. I'm not saying there isn't a reason to check the abs system to see if it's functioning like it should but unless you change out lines or have problems with the braking, there is no point to doing this when you change out the brake fluid as a routine maintenance.

 

[MaxMidnight]

As you say, the bleeding process is the same as for non ABS.
...but...
There is an additional procedure that wouldn't be undertaken with a non ABS system, 3-24-j Checking the operation of the hydraulic unit. and k, repeat steps (e) to (i).

 

[ShawnD]

As you say, the bleeding process is the same as for non ABS.
...but...
There is an additional procedure that wouldn't be undertaken with a non ABS system, 3-24-j Checking the operation of the hydraulic unit. and k, repeat steps (e) to (i).

agree...but it's checking the operation of the abs. I still say it doesn't release any brake fluid that the normal bleeding doesn't.

 

[The Chicken Man]

I find the specific language used in the service manual does make it confusing as to whether intent of the process is to check the operation or to flush/circulate fluid. From what I can tell, I think it is the same process to both tasks. It's worth highlighting that this step is included in a section for changing & bleeding fluid, not checking the brake system. The service manual does not state the purpose of this step though, so we will likely never know the author's true intent. But one thing that we do know though is that it is checking/cycling the abs system is a step that the service manual says to take. So not performing this step would be going against the service manual's recommendations.

The "'old fluid'" concept has been around as long as ABS systems themselves. The person in the YouTube video I link is certainly a believer in it. But the truth to that theory is that it all depends on the particular system. Some vehicles do require a specific process to remove fluid from their ABS units, others don't. As for our beloved Vmaxs? Again, the service manual does not state specifically if/why it is required. I think the fact that it is a step in the service manuals fluid bleeding section, and the fact that it then recommends further bleeding afterwards is rather telling though.

I found further context for this in the "FEATURES" section on pages 1-11 thru 1-12, which describe how different solenoid valves open and close when the ABS system is operating. Page 1-3 shows a block diagram for ABS system too. My conclusion from this information is shown below.

The first image shows the path fluid would typically taking under normal operation; the second shows where it would flow during operation of the ABS unit. Note that this diagram is not to scale. It appears it is certainly possible for fluid to be trapped in passageways between the Hydraulic Pumps and the Outlet Solenoids with potential for fluid residue to remain in both of those comments and the Buffer Champers as well.

We may all draw whatever different conclusions from this we want. Afterall, that is all we can do here. As for myself? I will just stick to doing what the service manual says to do.


Regular Brake Operation


ABS Operation

 

[MaxMidnight]

My best guess is that it is to ensure that there isn't any air still in the ABS control unit.
If the system had been fully drained and this operation was not done then it is likely that the first time the rider would know the system had not been purged of air was when they needed the ABS. Not working as intended could have serious consequences.
I may be a bit belt and braces but I can understand why it is required.

 

[ShawnD]

If there was air trapped in the buffer chambers, where does it go when doing this procedure? If it goes into the lines it should result in sponginess in the levers & there would be a bit more bleeding to do...guess I'd know whether I'm way off base on this. And still, it is a good idea to know if the abs module is doing it's job anyway. So tell me this. I just changed the two lines for the rear brake. I haven't done this procedure so if I try locking up the rear brake, abs won't kick in, right?

 

[MaxMidnight]

If there was air trapped in the buffer chambers, where does it go when doing this procedure? If it goes into the lines it should result in sponginess in the levers & there would be a bit more bleeding to do...guess I'd know whether I'm way off base on this. And still, it is a good idea to know if the abs module is doing it's job anyway. So tell me this. I just changed the two lines for the rear brake. I haven't done this procedure so if I try locking up the rear brake, abs won't kick in, right?

There is only one way to find out.......

 

[Coastal Grey]

Suck it out the rear and the front with a mighty vac make sure to keep the res topped up

 

[ShawnD]

Suck it out the rear and the front with a mighty vac make sure to keep the res topped up

Oh yeah, mityvac is the only way to do this stuff. And at some point I'm going to do the jumper bleed method too. First time I felt the anti-lock kick in on the rear it left about 8 feet of rubber. That was a bit of a surprise.

 

[ShawnD]

So no issues with abs kicking in, on the rear brake at least. Decided to go ahead with doing the jumper test anyway. Everything cycled fine the way it's spelled out in the service manual...front brakes, back brake & front again.

 

[ShawnD]

Okay, one more question & I promise to stop bothering everyone. There are two tests for this so is it an either/or thing or do I do both?