Moore Mafia Flash!

[ouchez]

The Moore Mafia has just revealed their flashed MAX ECU and the numbers with the Brock Exhaust are amazing, and I believe with shipping etc. you would be around $300. Check out the Moore Mafia Site!! If I had a Gen 2 I would jump on this.

 

[Ukemax]

I like all his videos. The thing that I found strange was his baseline pull was only 158. Most stock Gen 2's should be around 168-170...

 

[MileHayabusa]

I like all his videos. The thing that I found strange was his baseline pull was only 158. Most stock Gen 2's should be around 168-170...

Baseline totally depends upon things like the dyno and its calibration, tire pressure, correction factor being used, etc. Comparing numbers from two dynos is pretty pointless and the 'rule of thumb' is to use the same dyno for measuring gains while keeping as many other factors as consistent as possible.

That bike could have done 170 on another dyno and 155 on a third dyno...I wouldn't use different dyno numbers for absolute comparisons.

 

[El Canadiense]

If Yamaha ran the numbers on a dyno, which numbers do you think they would choose to use in advertising literature? The highs or lows? They will use whatever parameters suit them at the time. Anyone who gets their vehicle uses the high numbers. Then factor in why Yamaha detunes the bike. Warranty issues, redline/warranty issues, ridability issues for your average rider, fuel issues, mpg issues, cost/benefit analysis of it all. People also believe whatever b.s. product advertisers say in their ads. Add this for this 5hp, add this for another 3%hp, add this for better mileage. Sometimes or most times, the add-ons actually make you lose power unless you put it on a dyno and tune it after every modification. And adding more hp or torque at top end?? What percentage of riders could actually take advantage of any increases in hp/tq at 9,000 rpms? Average age of VMAX riders is over 50, including myself. Does that sound like the age group that can use that extra few hp at 9,000 rpms? My guess would be maybe a 130 lb. 20 year old rider would be a better choice. And where do you take advantage of that hp? I have done 145 mph on a FJ1100 bback in the day and when you are going that fast, you are eating up distance so fast, you can just hang on, let alone steer or think about that extra few hp or notice any difference at all. My bike has a Guru flash and hypothetically, it can go 168 mph(?) but do I really want to go 168 mph on a 670lb. cruisiing bike? A few may, the vast majority, absolutely not. To me, it is comparable to a Yenko Camaro with a 427, beautiful to look at, maybe fun to do 1/4 mile, but more fun to dream and just enjoy cruising in it and showing off a little once in awhile.

 

[Zeus36]

I want to go fast in the shortest time possible, not go as fast as the bike can. Not too concerned with HP at top speed, give me low end performance and mid-range for passing.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

I want to go fast in the shortest time possible, not go as fast as the bike can. Not too concerned with HP at top speed, give me low end performance and mid-range for passing.

Cant we have both though? LOL

 

[ZX1441r]

The bike tested already had a pipe on it ! Do you think it was a little lean beacause of and that dropped the HP

 

[MileHayabusa]

The bike tested already had a pipe on it ! Do you think it was a little lean beacause of and that dropped the HP

I wouldn't worry about the numbers...I'd look at the relative gains going from pre-flash to post-flash.

 

[ZX1441r]

Exactly, if the numbers were lower because of the leanness of the pipe it would exaggerate that difference. Exactly my point!! I get it, it'll be different from Dyno to Dyno and you just want to look at the gains from whatever mod is done but that would be a way that it could get exaggerated unintentionally. Base run should've been pre-pipe installation to be able to compare Apples to Apples, no?

 

[MileHayabusa]

Base run should've been pre-pipe installation to be able to compare Apples to Apples, no?

Agreed but I think he was just detailing what you could get with a VMAX flash and I'm the customer who brought it in already had the pipe on it negating the chance to do a true 'before-and-after'.

 

[1badmax]

This will probably not be popular to some here but just going to give my 2 cents on Chris Moore. Chris is great at drag racing and getting as much as he can out Suzuki's(GSXR) most of the time. Some Kawasaki's also. I just really don't like the fact the he has jumped on the Vmax bandwagon two years after Yamaha has discontinued them, where were you in 2009 and 2015 Chris? He is not a Suzuki rep but IS paid by the mfg to keep them a the front of the line on the drag strip! Vmax is raw HP but will never be able to compete with bikes that are 250-300 lbs less in weight as is the Gixxer. l do not agree with the way he scrambles the numbers, he knows what a Vmax can do and cannot do. He is show guy that walks around with his cell stick saying look at me.
Tim Nash has probably spent thousands of hours perfecting flashing our ECU's and now Chris wants a part of it. Sorry but not on my bikes, I have spoken to to Tim numerous times on the phone regarding mod's, flashing, HP, 1/4 ET, oils. You name and he has the answer.

Sorry Chris Moore but Nash is number one in my department and will stay there!!! So stay with your suzi cues...

 

[ouchez]

This will probably not be popular to some here but just going to give my 2 cents on Chris Moore. Chris is great at drag racing and getting as much as he can out Suzuki's(GSXR) most of the time. Some Kawasaki's also. I just really don't like the fact the he has jumped on the Vmax bandwagon two years after Yamaha has discontinued them, where were you in 2009 and 2015 Chris? He is not a Suzuki rep but IS paid by the mfg to keep them a the front of the line on the drag strip! Vmax is raw HP but will never be able to compete with bikes that are 250-300 lbs less in weight as is the Gixxer. l do not agree with the way he scrambles the numbers, he knows what a Vmax can do and cannot do. He is show guy that walks around with his cell stick saying look at me.
Tim Nash has probably spent thousands of hours perfecting flashing our ECU's and now Chris wants a part of it. Sorry but not on my bikes, I have spoken to to Tim numerous times on the phone regarding mod's, flashing, HP, 1/4 ET, oils. You name and he has the answer.

Sorry Chris Moore but Nash is number one in my department and will stay there!!! So stay with your suzi cues...

Getting a 2nd, 3rd opinion is always great,,,and it is not like we have not heard complaints about Nash Flash in the past. What is the cost for the Nash Flash? I really like the fact that Chris is open about what he is doing, is a real legit Bizzness and therefore does not operate out of his garage and has liability insurance, etc. He has done work on Yama in the past, like the MT-10 as well as many other machines.

 

[MileHayabusa]

I'd say pick your proverbial poison...I've never spoken to Tim directly but I haven't had a need to either. It seems like, from what everyone has posted on here, he's a good guy and definitely knows his stuff about the VMAX. I'd agree that his flash, which used to be the only option outside of a factory 'race' ECU, seems effective and well thought out. As mentioned, I've got one of his flashes on my bike and, despite using Woolich stuff on all some of my other bikes, I don't feel any need to move away from it.

I have spoken directly to Chris and he took the time and answered all of my questions about the flash for my Hayabusa and you can't argue with how some of his bikes are running. Granted most of them are set up to run in the quarter but horsepower is horsepower regardless of where it is being used. I'm guessing he's not jumping on the 'VMAX bandwagon' as, let's face it, his target market is sportbikes and there are a whole lot more of them out there. Seems like he had someone bring him a VMAX to tune, it was supported by the Woolish software he uses, and he took the opportunity to document what he did in hopes of maybe gaining a few more sales in the form of a VMAX flash.

I think too many people are focused on 'the number' but it is what it is. If I didn't have a Guru flash and wanted more 'control' over how my bike was being tuned I would probably go the Woolich route and self-tune.

99% of the Gen2 guys on here looking for a flash are going to go with Tim as his flash is proven and effective. Most of the 'YouTube generation' doesn't bother with 'old school' forums as they find them less attractive than places like Instagram and Facebook, so I'd imagine Chris is trying to reach that demographic.

At the end of the day you pay your money and you make your choice...

 

[Coastal Grey]

When I got my ecu flashed the first time by Tim I knew right away as soon as I hit the go button on the bike the sound was dramatically different and the engine seemed to lope just a little different

when I got it on the road off the table I was absolutely amazed night and day
This was a flash for an open air box and stock pipes

I looked at the other guy I’m going to stick with tim he’s got the data he has put in the grunt work and in the world I work that means a lot . It doesn’t mean I’m afraid to step out of the box it means I’m chasing proven and rock solid back ground work

thanks Tim

cheers
Peter

 

[user 74794]

Woolich doesn't have self tune.

 

[MileHayabusa]

Woolich doesn't have self tune.

Not completely true...I self-tune my bikes all the time using one of their available features called 'Autotune', which requires the Zeitronix Wideband O2 add-on. Probably a bit of a misnomer though as, while it does log observed A/F and allow you to use those values to tune to a desired A/F, there is nothing auto about it. You have to import the log file and let it 'compare' the values to your desired A/F and it calculates fueling changes and then you have to accept the proposed changes.

So while it's not the equivalent of what the DynoJet Autotune (or the aRacer ECU that I use on my daughter and my Z125s) does in changing tunes 'on the fly', it does allow 'self tuning'.

 

[Coastal Grey]

I had an v and h fp3 tuner on my fatbob that auto tuned/self taught to your riding habits and surroundings and built a map and if you liked it could save it I had the stock map their canned map for my setup and the auto tuned map saved on my phone there was a difference in all three maps I stuck more with the self taught map brilliant piece of kit I wish they made it for the vmax

 

[user 74794]

Not completely true...I self-tune my bikes all the time using one of their available features called 'Autotune', which requires the Zeitronix Wideband O2 add-on. Probably a bit of a misnomer though as, while it does log observed A/F and allow you to use those values to tune to a desired A/F, there is nothing auto about it. You have to import the log file and let it 'compare' the values to your desired A/F and it calculates fueling changes and then you have to accept the proposed changes.

So while it's not the equivalent of what the DynoJet Autotune (or the aRacer ECU that I use on my daughter and my Z125s) does in changing tunes 'on the fly', it does allow 'self tuning'.

Woolich told me that isnt available for the vmax

 

[ZX1441r]

I had an v and h fp3 tuner on my fatbob that auto tuned/self taught to your riding habits and surroundings and built a map and if you liked it could save it I had the stock map their canned map for my setup and the auto tuned map saved on my phone there was a difference in all three maps I stuck more with the self taught map brilliant piece of kit I wish they made it for the vmax

With the V&H FP3 system did you have to set the A/F ratio points then the system adjusts to those as you ride or is it a canned tune ? Auto tuned map came from where ? The AFR points for the Auto tuned map preset ?

 

[ZX1441r]

I believe the Woolich system has a data logger available that will record and then you use that info to make changes to your ECM based on that info. I believe you can use a PCV and an Auto tuner the same way. The info from the Dyno-Jet Auto tuner doesn't become a permanent change until you download to the PCV and alter your map. I've added the PCV to my bike and will be installing the Auto tuner as soon as time permits. Now that I'm aware of the Woolich system I find it interesting and am a little curious to see what else is available for tuning. Multiple maps for different fuels, didn't see a Launch Control (2 step ) available for the Vmax like there is for other bikes etc,etc...