nagging oil leak

[RaWarrior]

OK, another update.

The next morning a drip had already formed along the bottom edge of the cover. I gave all the bolts an extra oomph of torque, wiped off the oil, and went for a ride. Engine to got to normal temp, and a couple bits in town of idling at lights. When I stopped and came back out a few minutes later, there were 3-4 drips under it. Looking with a light saw fresh oil residue the entire length of the bottom edge of the stator. Somehow it was now worse than before. :bang head:

Tore it apart. Again.(#4 now solely trying to correct this leak). The threebond ruined the gaskets taking the covers off this time. This time I drained the oil, tipped the bike to the left side to get the oil that hides in the middle gear "pocket", then put it back on it's right side. Cleaned the surfaces of old gasket, then wetted a paper towel with purple power and wiped the surfaces to ensure any and all oily residue was gone.

I had one more trick...while I was looking for the yamabond a couple weeks ago, I found at an Advance stuff called "Hylomar Universal Blue", billed as a flange sealant. Sounded like similar stuff....said it could be used in place of a gasket for metal-to-metal flanges, as well as filling in any surface imperfections. Worked the same way....apply a bead, wait a couple minutes for it to semi-dry, then assemble. It's a bright blue, somewhat clear gel. Said to torque to spec and return to service, no waiting or curing needed. So I did just that. Unfortunately, I didn't get time to take it for a ride and get it hot after trying the Hylomar sealant, and I won't be home for another month probably. I put the oil back in and ran it a bit and didn't see any immediate seepage, but I won't be convinced until it gets hot, then lays on it's sidestand without leaking.

 

[gamorg02]

ryan have you checked the cover for warpage with glass/mirror and feeler gauges?

 

[SpecOps13]

Realized I haven't said anything here since page 2 of this thread. My sealing of the Stator wires fixed the leak there. No more leaks from the Stator anywhere.

I rebuilt the Clutch Master Cylinder and eventually got it to work with no air in the line. I actually bled it through the reservoir on the handle bar. I put the Middle Gear Cover back and tightened it. No leaks there.

Now, my Shift Shaft is leaking.......


How to make a new 89 VMax.......:bang head:

 

[RaWarrior]

ryan have you checked the cover for warpage with glass/mirror and feeler gauges?

No, I couldn't find a suitable piece of glass lying around. I'm 99% sure it's not the stator wires, since the white/gray threebond residue make the oil more obviously coming from the bottom edge of the stator cover.

I wonder if re-using the gasket was a bad idea? It came off super easy from the vaseline coating and had only been in there for like 2 weeks. I suppose if the Hylomar doesn't work, I'll get yet another set of gaskets, and try sealant+ NEW gasket, since I've already established a new gasket on it's own still leaks.

 

[Miles Long]

No, I couldn't find a suitable piece of glass lying around. I'm 99% sure it's not the stator wires, since the white/gray threebond residue make the oil more obviously coming from the bottom edge of the stator cover.

I wonder if re-using the gasket was a bad idea? It came off super easy from the vaseline coating and had only been in there for like 2 weeks. I suppose if the Hylomar doesn't work, I'll get yet another set of gaskets, and try sealant+ NEW gasket, since I've already established a new gasket on it's own still leaks.

During my career as a power station mechanic, "Permatex" products were used for stubborn gasketed flange leaks, Hylomar for more precision fits, often not designed for using a gasket at all. "Permatex Gasket Sealant #1" is the hardening variety, while #2 is the non-hardening variety, (and was used in the majority of cases). Both varieties are thick-bodied, much more so than Hylomar, so fill in imperfections much better. Both are specific for gasoline and oil leaks, as well as many other liquids and gases. If you try either, use surgical gloves. The stuff is a ***** to get off fingers.
As far as determining surface mating, machinist's "prussion blue" was used. Much more accurate, and easier to use, than Plastigage. Permatex also makes a variety of this, comes in a small tube.
A flat surface(such as glass), is not required - the bluing will determine how the two surfaces actually mate together, not how flat they are. Something not as accurate, but often sufficient for gasketed surfaces, is a very thin skim of thread compound, applied evenly as possible to one flange surface only . The other flange is then put in place, and moved around, just a bit. No bolting required. If the surfaces are not mating, it will be evident by the compound transfered to the bare flange surface.
Good luck Miles

 

[RaWarrior]

Thanks for the tip...this is certainly being a "stubborn" flange leak.


I was looking for the aforementioned Permantex "moto seal" or "Permantex #2" but I couldn't find either of those after looking at like 4 different parts stores. From what I gathered the Yamabond(aka threebond 1194) sounds like pretty much the same stuff...a semi-hardening sealant.

The Threebond started out pretty runny....if applied to a vertical surface it would run down. After a couple minutes it would "skin over" and stop being runny, thicken up a bit. The Hylomar started as a clear blue gel. It "stuck" better and wouldn't run down a vertical surface, within 30 seconds or so it turned slightly opaque, turned into a very thick almost silicone like consistency. When I put the covers together, only a teensy bit squished out. Said on the package it would seal gaps up to 100 thousandths. Their website lists it as an "aerospace grade sealant originally developed for Rolls Royce aircraft engines" and also compatible with rapid, frequent heating and cooling. They even claim you could take it apart, then put it back together and it would re-seal again.

If (and I hope not) it comes apart again, I'll try using the contact liquid trick....see where it doesn't smoosh together right, though even if I find something, what am I going to do about it? Replace the whole cover? I imagine that isn't cheap...

 

[alorio1]

Old school trick....

If you think its the cover thats warped, take a fine milling file (about 6-8 inches long) and file around the outer edge of cover. A good sign of warpage will usually show up when you put the file right over a bolt hole and the file will rock from one edge of cover to the other side. If you find warpage file until rockage of file is minium. Usually warpage is caused from bolts being over tightened , thats why I say start checking with file at bolt hole. If you do find serious warpage and a great deal of filing is required , you may have to use two cover gaskets to keep the cover from binding starter gears. Most files are pretty flat, but if you want to check it lay it on a flat surface and press on the middle of file to see if it flexes then flip it over and do the same thing. Joe

 

[tugla]

i forgot about that stuff, use it on metal intake gaskets and should have thought about it. well i hope it works for you...what a PITA leak.

 

[RaWarrior]

I've never got any starter binding w/o any gasket....people tell me that I should get binding....but no. I started it up after using only the hylomar and it spun over fast as always, so if it's rubbing, it's so slight as to not affect anything. :confused2:

I'll keep the file check in mind if/when it comes off again. Maybe have two sets of new gaskets on order, so I can try the double gasket+ sealant.



Tell me about it....been fighting this damn leak since I did the starter clutch last summer.

 

[tugla]

maybe one gasket and gasket shelack(permetex 3H aviatioin forma a gasket), or the hylomar might be enough

 

[[email protected]]

Never tried this but heard it works very well. Loctite 515

http://www.rshughes.com/products/079340_51531.html

 

[COP RUNNER]

i " RA " THIS MAY SOUND UNCONVENTIONAL , BUT I'M SERIOUS AS A HEART ATTACK , CAN YOU USE DUCT TAPE OR GORILLA TAPE AND TAPE MAXI PADS OR PANTIE LINERS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE ENGINE , THIS WAY IT WILL BE ABSORBED RIGHT INTO THE PAD WHERE ITS LEAKING AND WONT BE ABLE TO BLOW BACK WHILE RIDING DOWN THE ROAD , IT MAY HELP NARROW IT DOWN ! .. :confused2:.. THEN WHEN YOU UN-TAPE IT SLOWLY , AND PULL IT DOWN , YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SEE RIGHT WHERE ITS COMING FROM ! .. unk:

 

[Pingu]

Sounds like a fine crack to me,especially as its getting worse every time you disturb the cover. If you even missed a tiny bit of crud when you refitted after the starter clutch it may have cracked. A friend of mine went through four Bandit sumps doing the same thing.....

 

[tugla]

i " RA " THIS MAY SOUND UNCONVENTIONAL , BUT I'M SERIOUS AS A HEART ATTACK , CAN YOU USE DUCT TAPE OR GORILLA TAPE AND TAPE MAXI PADS OR PANTIE LINERS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE ENGINE , THIS WAY IT WILL BE ABSORBED RIGHT INTO THE PAD WHERE ITS LEAKING AND WONT BE ABLE TO BLOW BACK WHILE RIDING DOWN THE ROAD , IT MAY HELP NARROW IT DOWN ! .. :confused2:.. THEN WHEN YOU UN-TAPE IT SLOWLY , AND PULL IT DOWN , YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SEE RIGHT WHERE ITS COMING FROM ! .. unk:

sounds like great idea, so if you got red dye in the oil........ :rofl_200:
seriously good idea

 

[hubeerjw]

sounds like great idea, so if you got red dye in the oil........ :rofl_200:
seriously good idea

Wrong... just wrong (but funny as hell!)

 

[COP RUNNER]

i ALSO " RA " , ME AND " DANNYMAX " WERE TALKING AT LUNCH TIME AND CAME UP WITH ANOTHER IDEA , CLEAN OFF THE BOTTOM OF YOUR ENGINE WITH BRAKE-CLEAN , GET 2 BIG BOXES OF BAND-AIDS , PUT THEM ACROSS THE ENTIRE BOTTOM SEAM OF THE ENGINE AND SIDE COVERS , LEAVING AN 1/8 INCH SPACE IN BETWEEN EACH ONE , GO FOR A RIDE AND THEN SEE WHICH ONE IS THE WETTEST , AND SO-ON ! .. :confused2:

 

[tugla]

but the riding part might slip stream it back into a spot where it piles up/pools and make it the worse looking spot also, think a little florescent die also along with your idea CR just to back up the results, narrow it down..........how about a little stop leak, forget the exact name but stuff used to swell seals like in a tranny. might be enough to stop it but not sure how it would effect the clutch, guess not the best solution more like a tempo fix.......


edit: yours, danny's, and RA i meant idea

 

[COP RUNNER]

i MY THING IS , IF ITS BLOWING BACK AND YOU CANT NARROW IT DOWN , CLEAN IT OFF AND RIDE IT SLIGHTLY LESS DISTANCE EACH TIME UNTIL YOU CAN CATCH IT .

 

[tugla]

i MY THING IS , IF ITS BLOWING BACK AND YOU CANT NARROW IT DOWN , CLEAN IT OFF AND RIDE IT SLIGHTLY LESS DISTANCE EACH TIME UNTIL YOU CAN CATCH IT .

unk:unk:unk:

is that the only time you hate blow back :rofl_200:

 

[COP RUNNER]

unk:unk:unk:

is that the only time you hate blow back :rofl_200:

i WE'LL TALK AT THE BROWNIE RUN , I HAVE A GREAT STORY ABOUT THAT ! .. REMINED ME ! . :wkwk: . :biglaugh: . :biglaugh: . :biglaugh: