NEED HELP: Will Not Fire

[maximus speedicus]

Ok, here's the run down on what I call a crappy day. I really need good help fast as the max is my only transportation at the moment. During my commute home from work I encountered TONS of rush hour traffic which led to a very toasty max. As I prepared for a left turn I must have stalled it (Noobish, I know. Still dealing with a finniky clutch). But when I immediately pulled in the clutch and hit the start... nothing. dead in the middle of crazy drivers.

So I pull over and think "maybe it's just too hot, I'll let it cool and then see if it will start." An hour or so passes just sitting there then I give it another try, still nothing. So I take out my phone to call a ride and...dead battery. Thank God I was only a few miles from home, what a walk. when I get home I call a tow truck and head out there and we try to get it running.

I noticed when I pushed the starter button that there was not clicking noise so I automatically figured it was a bad starter solenoid. So we jump the solenoid with a screw driver and it cranks over but the battery quickly dies because for some reason it wouldn't start. Then the guy breaks out his emergency jumper pack and connects it to a ground and to the outgoing side of the solenoid and it spins that starter like I've never heard it spin. Usually it really struggles to crank the starter. Anyway, so there we are cranking and cranking...and cranking. It's not firing up. I can still crank it over by jumping the solenoid but it won't fire.

So.. now that you've read all this here's a thank you in advance for at least reading all this. My questions: Is the solenoid good/bad/dunno and why won't it run?!? *whimpering*

 

[Ratt1eHead]

Check the basics first.... you need spark, fuel and air. Then go from there.

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Sounds electrical. Possibly one of your switches went bad?

 

[rollin thunder]

You said it starts hard usually so you have electrical connection problems or need a new battery for starters.The Max takes alot of battery to start it well so ,a strong battery is the first thing to get.

 

[maximus speedicus]

I got a new battery earlier this year. It's the Panasonic that a few people on here recommend. I did search the forum and some people found they had bad CDIs or bad connections. I don't really have the tools/space here to replace the CDI or hunt down corroded connections so I'm really hoping someone will chime in with their experience with this type of particular situation.

 

[naughtyG]

First thing is check your fuses! In the fuse box under faux-tank cover rear left, there is a 10A for ignition. Make sure it's good and check all others while you're there.

Second thing is fully charge your battery, then take it to a car shop to have its cranking power tested - I know you said it's recent but it could be dead all the same. It's not unheard of for a battery to get an internal short and die, happened to me very recently.

Third thing, by the sound of it you were having problems cranking before, so you may have an older 2-brush starter motor in need of service..

If it won't start, you need to check you are getting a spark - pull each spark plug in turn, plug it in and hold it to a ground and crank to check for spark.

 

[MaxMidnight]

I don't really have the tools/space here to replace the CDI or hunt down corroded connections so I'm really hoping someone will chime in with their experience with this type of particular situation.

'Fraid you won't get a 'Magic Wand' answer.

The fault is most likely electrical and most likely somewhere in the loom.
The quickest way to trace the issue is to work in a logical manner and check along the various circuits that you have power and continuity.

I would start with the charging system - use this flow chart.

I have attached a couple of wiring diagrams that will help.

 

[tugla]

not to being a smart ass but as mentioned to check the basics......is there fuel in it.....if the res switch is already switched maybe ran her dry or is fuel pump still working......

 

[maximus speedicus]

Thanks, guys. those pointers and .pdfs will help greatly. To clarify on the situation, there was definitely gas. It's only been 20 miles since fill up and I smelled it when the tow truck driver tried starting it.

EDIT: Update on the conditions, just went outside and turned the key and there were no noises. As in no VBoost and no fuel pump noises. Are they tied into the same circuit as the solenoid, Which would cause them not to function?

 

[rollin thunder]

When the kill switch is on the lights come on but the v boost doesnt function.I have the Panasonic battery also and it cranks well.

 

[maximus speedicus]

I'll put a starter rebuild/upgrade on my to do list of the nearer future. lol

 

[davidon]

I think I had a similar problem years ago so I don't remember exactly what solved it but definately check for shorts and check entire charging system, all relays in the system (starter relay, also kickstand shut off relay, neutral relay etc). Check/upgrade/clean grounding system as well.

 

[maximus speedicus]

ok, guys. here's an update. I checked the fuses and the 10 amp ignition fuse was blown. so I replaced it and it cranked over once and blew that fuse. so i stuck in a 15 amp fuse and it blew that one as soon as i turned the key to the on position. does anyone know what could cause this or if i can put in a 20 or 25 amp fuse without hurting the ignition system? Could this be caused by a low battery?

 

[m-cman]

You have a short in the circuit. Not caused by battery. If you increase fuse size you will eventually fry the complete circuit. Need to find the loose/frayed section of wire.

 

[tugla]

Do not put bigger fuses in,there is a deign limit and its there to save other components you run risk burning wires or other components.
You need to find your short circuit......

 

[maximus speedicus]

do i just follow the ignition wiring from the solenoid or could it be on another circuit like the charging circuit?

 

[Miles Long]

First thing, go to the "Morley's Muscle" banner at the top of the home page, click on "How-to", then print out the electrical diagram for your bike ('85-'89 US and Canada models).
Check out the fusebox arrangement in the lower right hand corner. The brown wire, that comes from the ignition switch, feeds all the circuits. Your short apparently is in the red/white wire, that comes off the downstream side of the ignition fuse.
Following the red/white, you can see that it goes thru a nine-pin connector, then provides a common power source for both the engine stop switch, and the fuel reserve switch. After these switches are closed, the wire provides power to many other devices. The short could be in the first part of the wiring, or downstream of either one of the switches.
First thing I would do - put the fuel reserve switch in the "run" position, put the engine stop switch in the "stop" position. Then replace the fuse. Then turn the ignition switch to "on".
If the fuse blows immediately, you are lucky. The short is in the first part of the wiring (fusebox to common feed connection, or perhaps one of the switches themselves).
If it doesn't blow, then turn the stop switch to '"run". If the fuse blows then, the short is downstream of this switch.
If the fuse still hasn't blown, try activating the fuel reserve switch.
Hopefully, this will isolate the source of the problem, then you can go from there to find the short.
Cheers!

 

[maximus speedicus]

Thanks, Miles for your help. As it turned out, the short vanished.
I did all the tests that Miles suggested and found that the short was either caused by the fuel reserve switch or it was after the reserve switch.
Started with the reserve switch in run and the kill switch on stop. turned the key to on and no blown fuse. switched the kill switch to run and zap, it blew. So I returned the kill switch to stop and put in a new fuse and switched the fuel switch to reserve and viola. No blown fuse. Started it up, let it run for a few secs and turned the ignition off. Then switched the fuel back to run and turned the ignition on and all was back to normal :confused2:
I guess we'll have to wait till it occurs again. Or I could actually spend the time hunting the short down...Naaaahhh. lol