No start, just clicking relay!

[SvenDGAF]

Ok, when I try to start with the button, the starter relay clicks and thats it, nothing else. I'm not very mechanical minded, so my thought process doesn't go beyond taking things out and putting this back together!

No joy with a jump start -from the car just the same (starter relay clicks). Have checked connections, etc. any suggestions what to do next?

Any ideas? new relay? or something else?

Fully charged battery (reading @ approx 13v). Removed all connections and WD40'd them, and re-connected.

However when it had MOT, the garage adjusted the throttle cables. That is near the relay unit under the left scoop. After testing that as per the service manual - at stage ("Connect B/Y lead to ground on the frame") - the unit (the relay unit, not the starter relay) should click. It doesn't. Maybe the relay unit is at fault?

If I'm barking up the wrong tree, can someone more clearly explain the test on the starter relay (the page before in the VMX service manual) where it says "connect LAN lead from the starter relay to battery neg terminal" - it says that should start the engine!" is this correct? and what is the LAN lead?

Maybe the starter is jammed?

Help is very much appreciated.

Sven :th_12:

 

[lankeeyankee]

Ok, when I try to start with the button, the starter relay clicks and thats it, nothing else. I'm not very mechanical minded, so my thought process doesn't go beyond taking things out and putting this back together!

No joy with a jump start -from the car just the same (starter relay clicks). Have checked connections, etc. any suggestions what to do next?

Any ideas? new relay? or something else?

Fully charged battery (reading @ approx 13v). Removed all connections and WD40'd them, and re-connected.

However when it had MOT, the garage adjusted the throttle cables. That is near the relay unit under the left scoop. After testing that as per the service manual - at stage ("Connect B/Y lead to ground on the frame") - the unit (the relay unit, not the starter relay) should click. It doesn't. Maybe the relay unit is at fault?

If I'm barking up the wrong tree, can someone more clearly explain the test on the starter relay (the page before in the VMX service manual) where it says "connect LAN lead from the starter relay to battery neg terminal" - it says that should start the engine!" is this correct? and what is the LAN lead?

Maybe the starter is jammed?

Help is very much appreciated.

Sven :th_12:

I think you may be complicating things. To adjust the throttle cables you shouldnt have had to remove the left scoop. The onlything behine the left scoop is where the cables connect but there is no adjustment and the factory grease they use stays very well. If you want to adjust your throttle you use the adjusting nuts near the start button.
If you have a clicking noise sounds like the battery has a cell collapsed. I dont care if it read 14.8V sitting there. Put the meter on the battery leads and than try starting the bike. Test the battery under a load, known as load testing.
Even with jumper cables on it wont make a difference when there is a cell collapased in the battery. I am betting you have a bad battery, dont get deep in messing around with wires and create more problems known as Induced faults. remember KISS !! Keep It Simple Silly. Do a load test as described and write back but I am betting you will be oredering an Oddesey Battery. ;-)

Yankee:ummm:

 

[davidon]

Ignition fuse

 

[VikingD]

Had the EXACT same thing about 6 months ago. It was the battery. 50 bucks at auto zone and it was fixed. I'm not gonna pretend I know anything about batteries, but Yank is right. My battery read full on the meter, but only had a surface charge or something. Try the battery first!!!!
Good luck

 

[SvenDGAF]

unk:Cheers guys. I reckon I will plumb for a new battery, because it was on it's way out anyway, I was trickle charging it every week just to keep it alive. So that answer figures.

And I did check all the fuses and they are fine :thumbs up:

Will get a new battery anyway, because it needs one, and then I'll update to see if this fixes it.

Muchos Appreciatos:rocket bike:


Sven DGAF MCC

 

[SvenDGAF]

Brand spanking new battery (+7 hour charge) fitted. And.... guess what?:th_help:

Nothing.....nada....still just a clicking relay:hmmm:. All other electrics work....... Any ideas now?

.... It's not fuses or battery

It worked fine until one morning.... nothing

Please help I need to get back on the road

Thanks in advance, Sven

 

[SvenDGAF]

By the way, jumping the two big wires at the start relay does nothing

 

[davidon]

Get a wiring diagram and start checking current flow from battery back. (Ignition switch, engine stop switch,etc)

 

[maleko89]

By the way, jumping the two big wires at the start relay does nothing

Then if you jumped it correctly it's either your starter relay, starting circuit cutoff relay or the starter motor. Start with the starter motor and try jumping that first....then move on to testing the relays.

Mark
#1098

 

[hubeerjw]

Then if you jumped it correctly it's either your starter relay starting circuit cutoff relay or the starter motor. Start with the starter motor and try jumping that first....then move on to testing the relays.

Mark
#1098

Mark... you beat me too it, here are some instuctions to Mark's suggestions:
Usually a clicking relay means it isn't getting enough "juice" through it. Since it is clicking, we can basically eliminate the side stand switch, engine stop switch, neutral switch, and clutch switch (these are all items I saw were connected to the starting circuit cutoff relay on the 2001 and up wiring diagram). You should be able to "jump" the starter motor by first making sure you have a GOOD ground cable. Take your ohm meter and make sure your starter motor is grounded properly and the cable isn't cut or broken. You also need to make sure your battery ground is good as well. As long as you know your ground is good, you should be able to take your jumper cables, and connect one positive jumper clamp to the positive battery terminal , and the other positive jumper wire to the positive cable/terminal on the starter... If the starter motor is not spinning yet, take your negative jumper end and connect it to the negative lead/terminal on the starter and the other negative jumper end to the negative battery terminal. This way you know you are sending 12v directly to the starter. If nothing happens, then I would remove your starter and have it tested. This is basically the same thing as what you did by jumping the relay, but you need to make sure you have a pretty decent sized cable as there is a fair amount of current running through there. Give this a try, it should tell us if your starter is good or could also lead to finding a bad ground or connection somewhere. This whole ?jumping? process should be able to be done with the ignition off since you are only testing the starter motor and the grounds. Hope this helps, and let us know what happens and we?ll keep trying to troubleshoot this with you. What year is your bike so I can make sure I am looking at the correct diagram?
Cheers,
Jeff

 

[maleko89]

Excellent, thanks Jeff! I didn't know the year so was "lazy" and didn't get into wire colors.

Mark
#1098

 

[one2dmax]

by bypassing the two large wires he has already sent full voltage to the starter. It sounds to me like the starter has gone bad.

Sean

 

[hubeerjw]

by bypassing the two large wires he has already sent full voltage to the starter. It sounds to me like the starter has gone bad.

Sean

That's true, but we need to make sure there isn't a bad groud or bad positive connection somewhere. If you know you have good jumper cables, and the motor still doesn't turn, then you definately know it's a bad motor... otherwise it could be a loose connection somewhere, or a bad relay. You could jump the realy (which he has done) but if you don't have a good ground or a solid positive connection, then you won't be getting enough current to the starter.... we are really arguing about the same thing so.... we both win!

Jeff

 

[one2dmax]

Another way to do it (also an easy way to jump the bike without taking the seat off) is to:

1 - hook up a set of jumpers from the car (or other device - jumping type battery charger) and then

2 - hook the ground of the cable to the frame (I like the area near the front engine mount) then

3 - make sure the bike is in nuetral and the key on (if you want it to start - or off if you want to crank it over for a compression test without the ignition sparking) then

4 - touch the starter stud directly with the positive cable (you may need to pull back the rubber cover).


This bypasses everything since the body of the starter is grounded to the engine which is in turn grounded to the frame.

Another note: I have seen starter wires melted to the headers on an aftermarket exhaust which made a direct short when the starter relay enguaged. This would also make it seem like a bad starter. A simple continuity check would tell you if that is the case (check from that cable to the frame).

Sean Morley

 

[SvenDGAF]

4 - touch the starter stud directly with the positive cable (you may need to pull back the rubber cover).

and the other positive jumper wire to the positive cable/terminal on the starter...

Thanks for the replies guys, especially for the excellent in-depth instructions from hubeerjw.

just one question.... i know I am pretty dumb, but can you tell me exactly where to find the starter stud/ positive cable from the starter (I am sitting in bed with the laptop at 6am, so I haven't looked yet, but I just want to be sure I can go straight to it without spending 1/2hr looking for it!!)

is this the two teminals on the relay? - so I directly earth one and directly power the other?

I REALLY appreciate all the input, will keep you posted!

Sven

Its a 1985 Model - hope this helps

PS. I successfully bump-started it yesterday by running down hill and dumping the clutch - does this not mean the starter works?

 

[hubeerjw]

My description was a little off as Sean pointed out. Since the starter motor casing is grounded by contact to the frame, there would be no ground cable. Sorry, I should have gone out there and looked for myself... I've only been a V-Max owner for a little over 6 months. I did take a few pictures, one of my bike and one of a Venture motor. I tried to circle the positive cable/stud on the starter motor.... it is a pretty tight fit so be careful that you don't short out on something with your jumper cables. Glad to hear you got it running at least! Let's see if that starter motor is bad by jumping it and we can go from there. Sean or anyone, please let me know if I am misstating anything else.
Jeff

 

[SvenDGAF]

Thanks, I'll try that, and see if anything stirs....... I'll post the result later

Sven:thumbs up:

 

[SvenDGAF]

Ran cable directly from positive on battery to the starter positive..... and nothing. Additionally ran jumper lead from negative on battery to the exhaust to create additional earth.
......Nothing.

The is definately an earth on the starter casing, as The positive sparks on the support rod (?) attatched accross the front of the starter unit.

Removed the wires again, and checked that there is 12V arriving at the starter when the button is pressed. So my conclusion is that unless there is a bad earth connection at the starter which I'm missing, which I doubt as it's mounted in the engine block, I think the starter is dead.

Any thoughts?


Cheers,
Sven

 

[hubeerjw]

It sounds like your starter is no longer living. I've never replaced a starter on a VMax yet, but I have seen them on eBay quite a bit and they don't seem very high priced, so that is a plus. I would probably try to remove the starter motor, and try "jumping" it again while it is off the bike. You could use a good 12v car battery and you will need to make sure your negative jumper cable lead is grounded to a clean/unpainted part of the srarter motor. If you get nothing again... you have most likely found your problem.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Jeff

 

[one2dmax]

Chances are good the starter is dead. I've still got a few left (new and used) and though they aren't going to break the bank I would not call them in-expensive either. They list out at nearly $200 and not sure what university can get them for (be around the same price I would charge).

If the bike is still the 85 you have in your sig then you need to upgrade it anyway. There was a change to 4 brush starters around the early 90's which made a big difference in starting ability. They aren't terribly bad to remove but will take some time and tongue twisting.

The only other potential issue would be more drastic and could be very serious but no sense going there yet anyway.

Sean Morley