Now this is a REAL fork brace

[mkunert]

I know this is a little off topic, but I figure one of you guys might know. I have the superbrace and frame braces. I've noticed at very low speeds (under 30) and going around corners over small bumps, the front end likes to wobble. I'm guessing it's because of the mods, but I'm thinking there might be something else going on. Any ideas?

 

[maleko89]

Check your front tire pressure, should be 40-42 PSI. Next, check steering bearings for adjustment and wear.

 

[Lew L]

I know this will sound nutso but it really works.

I live at the bottom of a long down sloping street. Occationally at 30 to 35 MPH I take my hands off the bars and GIVE THE LEFT BAR END A GOOD RAP. The bike will shake it's head once and then continue rolling along with no hands. BUT, If the tire pressure is low, say 35 psi. , it will shake violently till I steady it with my hands.
Air up the tires and its very stable. Have done the Furber and am using a 120 section front tire.

Lew

 

[mkunert]

That was it. Just had some Metzlers put on a month or so ago. They were at 30-32. I pumped them up to 42, and that took care of it. Thanks guys.

 

[Jayhawk]

Great info. Do all of the (good) frame braces require welding, or are there some acceptable bolt-on options?

 

[Waylander]

Someone say New Zealand?

 

[shawn kloker]

Great info. Do all of the (good) frame braces require welding, or are there some acceptable bolt-on options?

I have Dale Walker bolt ins on mine.They are not loose either.I feel that they work for me.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I did the Dale walker braces, sportmax solid engine mounts, front fork brace, shindy steering stabilizer, rear shocks and front springs, lowered 1.5" and cartridge emulators all in one weekend...
I cannot testify as to what each specific item contributed what but I will say the the overall effect was an incredible improvement......

I figured these items were all no brainers since at minimum they would not make things worse and so many people swear by them....

I can't wait till I can get some radials on this thing....

P.S.

I replaced the triple tree bearings at 12000 and made a huge improvement since the originals were totally ruined...my guess is that my experimentaion with varying degrees of torque I finally screwed them up....

I do agree with those that say the fork bearing torque probaly has the biggest affect on headshake; I know a slight adjustment on mine can change things drastically......
I run mine about as tight as they can be without creating a low speed weave from an inability to "self-correct"

 

[TheFleshRocket]

I have no experience with frame braces but I ride daily & hard all I can say is that if you have front racetech , good stock hight shocks, re-torqued steering nut and have metzler 880 tires you don't need any frame bracing at all even with spirited hard riding.

Your definition of spirited hard riding must be different than mine. Either that or you have a magically strong frame. On an 85mph backroad sweeper, my chassis was flexing badly enough that if I would have pushed much more, I think I would have lost control. It felt like the front and rear of the bike had become partially disconnected. My Max has Racetechs/gold emulators, Works shocks and Avon Supervenon/Venom tires, so it's not stock either.

I only did the solid mounts about a month ago and haven't had a chance to test them out on the same roads yet, so I can't comment on their effectiveness.

<edit> Oh geez, I bumped a really old thread. Oops!

 

[4gasem]

<edit> Oh geez, I bumped a really old thread. Oops!

Better than starting a new one...:thumbs up:

 

[shawn kloker]

Your definition of spirited hard riding must be different than mine. Either that or you have a magically strong frame. On an 85mph backroad sweeper, my chassis was flexing badly enough that if I would have pushed much more, I think I would have lost control. It felt like the front and rear of the bike had become partially disconnected. My Max has Racetechs/gold emulators, Works shocks and Avon Supervenon/Venom tires, so it's not stock either.

I only did the solid mounts about a month ago and haven't had a chance to test them out on the same roads yet, so I can't comment on their effectiveness.

<edit> Oh geez, I bumped a really old thread. Oops!

I have been saying the frame flexs like a wet noodle for a long time.In my opinion the frame braces do the best at stiffening it up.I have all the crap too,solid mounts,frame braces,gussetted frame,braced swingarm,fork brace.Mine handles good now with a new suspension and radials.Most must not be flexing the frame in the turns.

 

[gleno]

I replaced the triple tree bearings at 12000 and made a huge improvement since the originals were totally ruined...my guess is that my experimentaion with varying degrees of torque I finally screwed them up....

I do agree with those that say the fork bearing torque probably has the biggest affect on headshake; I know a slight adjustment on mine can change things drastically......
I run mine about as tight as they can be without creating a low speed weave from an inability to "self-correct"

I have to agree with this statement. The symtoms of headshake, highway weave, low spead wandering are all symptoms of incorrectly adjusted (or damaged) steering head bearings. Dramatic improvements can be gained by periodically checking the bearing adjustment.

Front tyre pressure that is too low will also create headshake and shudder by acting as a secondary suspension and preventing your fork springs from doing their job properly. I tend to run my front tyre at around 40psi and this stops the shudder.

 

[shawn kloker]

I have to agree with this statement. The symtoms of headshake, highway weave, low spead wandering are all symptoms of incorrectly adjusted (or damaged) steering head bearings. Dramatic improvements can be gained by periodically checking the bearing adjustment.

Front tyre pressure that is too low will also create headshake and shudder by acting as a secondary suspension and preventing your fork springs from doing their job properly. I tend to run my front tyre at around 40psi and this stops the shudder.

The front end bearings have nothing to do with the frame flex that I am talking about.

 

[gleno]

The front end bearings have nothing to do with the frame flex that I am talking about.

No, frame flex is a different beast altogether.

I know that and you know that, but for the benefit of those riders who don't know what frame flex is, could you explain what you are referring to as frame flex?

What are the symptoms of frame flex?
Under what conditions do you experience flexing behaviour?
What can be done about it?

 

[shawn kloker]

The frame flexed on me the most in big sweeper turns and while passing cars in the way while under heavy throttle and torque.Turning hard.

It feels like the back tire is swaying back and forth like a dog wagging its tail.

My bike has all the crap to stop this.Like I said I feel the frame braces are the best solution.Even with all the braces and gussets,solid mounts, I can still flex mine at really high speeds weaving through traffic,135mph or so.

Some of you other guys that have felt this should speak up.Maybe I am not explaining it right.It does almost feel like the frame is broke.

 

[gleno]

The frame flexed on me the most in big sweeper turns and while passing cars in the way while under heavy throttle and torque.Turning hard.

It feels like the back tire is swaying back and forth like a dog wagging its tail.

My bike has all the crap to stop this.Like I said I feel the frame braces are the best solution.Even with all the braces and gussets,solid mounts, I can still flex mine at really high speeds weaving through traffic,135mph or so.

Some of you other guys that have felt this should speak up.Maybe I am not explaining it right.It does almost feel like the frame is broke.

Thanks Shawn. That's a very clear description of the problem. Yamaha's XS1100 shaft drive double cradle frame did EXACTLY the same thing.

It feels like you are riding a fish that is flicking its tail from side to side.

I've ridden many miles/kilometers on both bikes and my view is the flex originates from the swingarm bearings and mounting pinions. The assembly is not inherently rigid like a solid swingarm axle.

If the swingarm was a solid axle I?m sure the problem would vanish.

I?ve kept some photo?s of frame mods that use extra gusseting around the swingarm pinion mounts to make the frame more rigid and this will probably be my first mod on the new bike.

I have also seen custom heavy-duty swingarm pinions that are said to be a great benefit. I think Niels Sarloos has done both to his ride.

Here are some other thoughts that should help.

1)What about a second set of bearings behind and parallel to the existing set inside of the swingarm? This would provide more load spread over the supporting pinions and use more of the swingarm axle as a brace.
2)Alignment of the swingarm pinion mounts may also be an issue. Take a look at the shots below. An extended bar has been mounted on one of the pinion mounts which clearly shows a lack of alignment with the mount on the other side. This manufactured variance is certainly going to make the bike wallow.
3)Get rid of the stock the swingarm. Have you ever seen the right hand side of V-max swing cut in cross section? It?s a jaw dropper. The steel tube is no thicker than a cheap car exhaust pipe. How can that possibly provide rigid support for the torque being transmitted through the shaft drive?
4)Brace the frame above and below the swingarm pinion mounts with a rigid cross member (Or two) to stop spread and deflection of the pinion mounts. Under driven loads and compressive suspension forces.

Now all this may appear to be way off topic but in reality it?s not.

My view is that a lot of fork braces and steering head bearings and frame braces have been fitted to cure THIS problem because a minute side to side flex in the swingarm will introduce a harmonic to the bike that will manifest as head shake in the circumstances you described. Treating the front end will not cure that problem.

There is a simple way to prove this to yourself if you do the following;

1)Brace your frame.
2)Fit a fork brace.
3)Tension your steering head bearings.
4)Find yourself the cutest volunteer pillion and ask her to give her tight buns a quick side to side wiggle on the pillion seat as you cruise at any speed.
5)That harmonic from her/your rear end will generate noticeable head shake.

By the way, how much of this have you done to your brake and what affect did it have?

[FONT=&quot]There is more to this topic but I?m done for now.[/FONT]

 

[shawn kloker]

Thanks Shawn. That's a very clear description of the problem. Yamaha's XS1100 shaft drive double cradle frame did EXACTLY the same thing.

It feels like you are riding a fish that is flicking its tail from side to side.

I've ridden many miles/kilometers on both bikes and my view is the flex originates from the swingarm bearings and mounting pinions. The assembly is not inherently rigid like a solid swingarm axle.

If the swingarm was a solid axle I?m sure the problem would vanish.

I?ve kept some photo?s of frame mods that use extra gusseting around the swingarm pinion mounts to make the frame more rigid and this will probably be my first mod on the new bike.

I have also seen custom heavy-duty swingarm pinions that are said to be a great benefit. I think Niels Sarloos has done both to his ride.

Here are some other thoughts that should help.

1)What about a second set of bearings behind and parallel to the existing set inside of the swingarm? This would provide more load spread over the supporting pinions and use more of the swingarm axle as a brace.
2)Alignment of the swingarm pinion mounts may also be an issue. Take a look at the shots below. An extended bar has been mounted on one of the pinion mounts which clearly shows a lack of alignment with the mount on the other side. This manufactured variance is certainly going to make the bike wallow.
3)Get rid of the stock the swingarm. Have you ever seen the right hand side of V-max swing cut in cross section? It?s a jaw dropper. The steel tube is no thicker than a cheap car exhaust pipe. How can that possibly provide rigid support for the torque being transmitted through the shaft drive?
4)Brace the frame above and below the swingarm pinion mounts with a rigid cross member (Or two) to stop spread and deflection of the pinion mounts. Under driven loads and compressive suspension forces.

Now all this may appear to be way off topic but in reality it?s not.

My view is that a lot of fork braces and steering head bearings and frame braces have been fitted to cure THIS problem because a minute side to side flex in the swingarm will introduce a harmonic to the bike that will manifest as head shake in the circumstances you described. Treating the front end will not cure that problem.

There is a simple way to prove this to yourself if you do the following;

1)Brace your frame.
2)Fit a fork brace.
3)Tension your steering head bearings.
4)Find yourself the cutest volunteer pillion and ask her to give her tight buns a quick side to side wiggle on the pillion seat as you cruise at any speed.
5)That harmonic from her/your rear end will generate noticeable head shake.

By the way, how much of this have you done to your brake and what affect did it have?

[FONT=&quot]There is more to this topic but I?m done for now.[/FONT]

My frame is gusseted,just like your picture,My swingarm bearings are new,My swingarm is braced.Solid motor mounts,frame braces and fork brace.It does handle good till pushing to the extreme.I couldn't imagine riding it again with out these things on the windy hilly roads around here.I just wonder why more people do not have these problems?Not riding WFO?

 

[maleko89]

I just have a fork brace and Racetech front end. It wiggles a little bit but I guess I'm used to it. I ride pretty hard, even scrape an occasional foot peg.

Mark
#1098

 

[4gasem]

The frame flexed on me the most in big sweeper turns and while passing cars in the way while under heavy throttle and torque.Turning hard.

It feels like the back tire is swaying back and forth like a dog wagging its tail.

My bike has all the crap to stop this.Like I said I feel the frame braces are the best solution.Even with all the braces and gussets,solid mounts, I can still flex mine at really high speeds weaving through traffic,135mph or so.

Some of you other guys that have felt this should speak up.Maybe I am not explaining it right.It does almost feel like the frame is broke.

A lot of people either don't ride that hard or don't know the difference...

A lot of riders have never experienced a newer designed bike to know what a non flexing frame is all about. Mine "waged its tail" like crazy and I never pushed it that hard... Now... I think some of that was the 4 inch rear tire which I now replaced with radials...

My bike is basically brand new and has frame braces and the bike is totally different!:thumbs up:

 

[maleko89]

Sounds like fork braces will be on my list. I don't want solid mounts because unsure about vibration. I put in 5-600 mile days and that'll wear on ya.

Mark