obama care?This can't be right!Can it.

[Itgoes]

Seriously? Your post indicate you know the in and out of healthcare "law" but know nothing of other current events really? Perhaps some reading is in order on your part.

This is a link to a site that leans to the left "Democrat or Liberal" This is a chronological order of the " health care systems and who has done what". This is fairly accurate and no I am of neither party I am a Conservative Independent.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=615

Below is a link of a law that's over rides due process
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...ama-signs-act-to-allow-detention-of-citizens/

Here is a link that over rides the First Amendment( In short the can shut down any and all communications)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...national-security-and-emergency-preparedness-

Should I post more? Notice none of this info is from Republicans,
Independents, or the tin foil hat society. I can go back to when the government passed a law that says it does not have to be accountable to the American public remember the cold war?

Perhaps you should read a little more about who/what "Discover the Networks" is.

You lost all credibility with your first statement and link that you posted.

 

[Traumahawk]

I have 1...remember back in 03 or 04...and it was found out that because of the patriot act, the government was in bed with the telecoms industries (ATT..etc) and so being able to spy on us via the internet. All of the major news networks were up in arms. Fast forward...the current administration and the NSA are doing the same thing. 1 network covered it...after a couple of weeks then the others covered it just a bit.

Spying on the American people is still spying on the American people. I didnt like it then, I dont like it now.

So why is it ok for 1 administration to do it (for our benefit of course... insert sarcasm here) and not ok for another?

 

[poppop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P4tkRQ5cfM Damn im a dum hillbilly but here is a few things and I found it in 5 minutes

 

[putin]

USA middle class divided by those who make more than $100 000 (minority - layers, doctors, gov crooks, landlords, IT jokers ...) and majority (working people and those who lost their jobs due to China and corporations). Former don't care about anything (saving animals, helping Africa, climate changes - wow!), latter don't understand what's going on at all. You can argue about gov. shutdown, obamacare, terrorist attacks and lost of rights and so on. Make no sense. You are modern slaves. Just bend over and prepare lube. Those who own this country will f.... you either way.
P.S. Already experienced this **** in Soviet Union before.

 

[Itgoes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P4tkRQ5cfM Damn im a dum hillbilly but here is a few things and I found it in 5 minutes

It's a conundrum. Yes nobody wants to give up their privacy and liberties but if 2 or 3 airplanes were falling out of the sky every year after bombs went off......what then? People would be in a panic and the country would come to a stop.

However, we certainly need to make sure that the goverment does not use the excuse of a post 9-11 era and use it to do anything other than keep Americans safe.

 

[putin]

It's a conundrum. Yes nobody wants to give up their privacy and liberties but if 2 or 3 airplanes were falling out of the sky every year after bombs went off......what then?

Nothing!! If there is danger YOU protect your country and don't cry and ask somebody to save you. Not to mention that 9/11 was the whole provocation by some gov connected sources. Like Pearl Harbor (when Rousvelt left Navy as a sitting duck to provoke Japs and start the war, he worked for corporations who did fight for spheras of influence in Pacific).

 

[Traumahawk]

It's a conundrum. Yes nobody wants to give up their privacy and liberties but if 2 or 3 airplanes were falling out of the sky every year after bombs went off......what then? People would be in a panic and the country would come to a stop.

However, we certainly need to make sure that the goverment does not use the excuse of a post 9-11 era and use it to do anything other than keep Americans safe.

I find it funny though...after 9/11 Michael Moore produced farenheit 9/11 talking about out liberties being eroded due to the Bush administration being in bed with the telecom companies (internet spying), eternal detention of prisoners..etc..and now the same thing is going on by this administration...and liberals that were up in arms THEN....are perfectly fine with it now.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

USA middle class divided by those who make more than $100 000 (minority - layers, doctors, gov crooks, landlords, IT jokers. don't care about anything (saving animals, helping Africa, climate changes - wow!),.

Pretty ******* broad brush you got there buddy.

Plenty of "working" folks in that first category. All it takes is a good skill set, a decent two year degree, a work ethic and the willingness to go where the work is.
Most in that category could give a **** about the save the world issues you just described. More worried about same day to day **** and crumbling country that the rest are.

And for the record I think this thread needs to be renamed the "tin foil supply"

9/11 truthers still rearing their heads?

Really?

 

[XBoxMax]

Who’s The Boss?

October 17, 2013 by Ben Crystal

OFFICIAL WHITE HOUSE PHOTO BY PETE SOUZA​

One day, as you’re trudging slowly over the mountain of work between you and the blessed relief of the stiff drink and the soft couch in your living room, one of your employees walks into your office. You’ve never liked this guy; in fact, he got the job over your objections. You remain suspicious of his qualifications, and you have some lingering doubts about some the entries on his resume. For example, you couldn’t find anyone except for some shifty-looking dudes who call themselves “community organizers” who were willing to act as references. Nonetheless, he demands your attention.
“Boss, I’ve got this great idea! If we implement it, everything about our company will improve. We’ll be more efficient, more productive and more profitable. Meanwhile, the morale of the employees will improve dramatically. Even the guys on the janitorial staff will reap benefits! I can’t believe anyone hasn’t thought of it before! And all I need is” — you brace yourself — “more money.”
When you ask how much more money he needs to make his dream a reality, he demurs. “Let’s get back to that in a moment.” And then he lays out a plan that will require you to hand over virtually total control of the company, following which he will impose a series of cutbacks to vital areas while simultaneously funneling capital into shady investment schemes and outright fraudulent enterprises. He will force the company to ignore industrial espionage by competitors, even giving them the passcodes to the company’s secure servers. He will change the pay structure so that the most productive and valuable employees are punished for their achievements, while throwing bonuses at some employees who seem unwilling to work at all. He will restructure human resources so that diversity quotas are introduced that supersede merit and accomplishment. He will add functionaries and paper-pushers while forcing blue-collar-level employees to endure either twice the workload or face unemployment. The IT component of his plan would need a ladder to climb to “slapdash.” Even without a computer science degree, you can see the system will fail at a catastrophic level — maybe on the first day. In addition, he wants corporate security to give him unfettered access to every employee’s personnel files — although he never makes it clear how spying on the workforce will benefit the company.
His plan is insane, unworkable and even dangerous. His budgeting makes no sense. He’s either grossly underestimating the company’s fiscal liabilities, or he’s deliberately fudging the numbers. His idea requires the accounting and legal departments to grow exponentially at the cost of virtually every tangibly productive sector of the company. He also lacks the support of well more than half the company’s employees, although most of the dissent is halfhearted and more for show than anything else. Moreover, those who have weighed in on either side of the plan are mostly soft-handed, pudgy, middle-management types who don’t seem to represent the rest of the payroll particularly well. The employees who really make the company successful are far too busy working to pay attention to either side.
As he continues his meandering, backtracking and even outright dishonest pitch, something occurs to you: His plan has been tried before. Back in the early 90s, some fat guy whom everyone seemed to like despite a few fairly serious breaches of the company’s sexual harassment policy tried to foist off a similarly horrendous idea on the company. He got the idea from his wife, although she didn’t work for the company at the time.
You sit up, preparing to tell him that not only are you denying his request, you’re seriously considering firing him for insubordination, theft, dishonesty and even killing some of the company’s finest employees. He grins and says: “I’m not asking you. I’m telling you. Since you hired me, I can do whatever I want. Now, how about you sign this check for $2 trillion?”
Just imagine.
–Ben Crystal

Hello, I’m Wayne Allyn Root for Personal Liberty. Many Americans suspect Barack Obama was foreign-born. They have every right to ask the questions about the most powerful and mysterious man in the world, but I believe they have the story wrong. They are on the wrong path to unsealing the mystery of Obama’s background.
But the Obama defenders are equally wrong. They rudely label Obama’s critics as “birthers.” Interestingly, the person most responsible for spreading this birth rumor is Obama himself. So in reality, Obama is the world’s biggest “birther.” I was Obama’s classmate at Columbia University. And, boy, do I have a story to tell you.
I believe Obama is a fraud. But it has nothing to do with his birth. Obama’s critics have it all backward. They are looking in the wrong place. He isn’t a foreigner portraying himself as an American. He’s an American who fraudulently portrayed himself as a foreigner. So because of his own fraudulent actions, Obama is actually the one to blame for starting all of this conspiracy talk.
Months ago, MSNBC television host Rachel Maddow spent 15 minutes on her national show calling me a “birther.” I scratched my head, because I’m not — never have been, not for one minute. A “birther” believes Obama is a foreigner, not legally qualified to be President. I have never believed that.
I’ve always believed that Obama is 100 percent American. There, I’ve said it loudly. I’m a leading critic of the President, but I’ve always believed him to be American-born. He is as American as P.T. Barnum. And he lies and exaggerates like Barnum, too. While Obama is no foreigner, he is a fraud. Let me tell you the real Obama story.
In hundreds of media interviews, I’ve stated that even though Obama was my college classmate at Columbia University, class of 1983, and we shared the same majors (political science and pre-law), I never saw, met or heard of him. But the media has this story wrong, too. I’ve never said that my conclusion is Obama did not go to Columbia. On the contrary, I believe Obama graduated Columbia and we are classmates.
Where was he hiding for those Columbia years? My educated guess is he was smoking pot and attending communist meetings, plotting the downfall of America and capitalism. Don’t laugh; it worked.
While that was just an educated guess, Obama’s own autobiography backs me up. He personally admitted often attending Socialist Party meetings at Cooper Union in downtown Manhattan. With Obama, even your wildest guesses are often proven true.
But forget why he wasn’t seen at Columbia; the real mystery is how he ever got into Columbia. Stay with me, because this ties into the whole “foreign-born” story.
I’ve believe I’ve pieced together what happened at Columbia and here it is. I believe that Obama, an American citizen, committed fraud by portraying himself as a foreigner in order to gain almost impossible admittance to prestigious Columbia University (and probably Occidental and Harvard Law School as well). He lied and used fraud, misrepresentation, to weasel his way in.
Is that really a crime? Ask convicted criminal Frank Abagnale, the real-life star of the hit movie and best-selling book Catch Me If You Can. Portraying someone you’re not is called fraud and is punishable by years in prison.
It doesn’t take a psychology degree to figure out Obama’s fragile mindset as a young man. He spent his youth living a fantasy, wanting desperately to be foreign-born and exotic, instead of just a normal American kid from a struggling single-parent household. As a black teen with no dad, Obama undoubtedly faced racism and tough times. With help from mentors like Frank Marshall Davis, a communist, and Bill Ayers, a terrorist, he learned to despise his country of birth (America). As a dreamer and loner, he started to believe his own story of exotic birth, then he used that fantasy (aka fraud) to gain admittance to both Occidental and Columbia.
In too deep, he had no way out. Ironically, that makes Obama himself the “birther.” He’s the one who created the foreign-born storyline. By calling himself a foreigner, he became the birther.
The fact the leftist media (Maddow, Jon Stewart, Mother Jones and others) are so frightened of me confirms that I’m close to the truth. It explains why Obama sent the Internal Revenue Service to viciously attack me not once, but twice. (I won 100 percent victories in both audits.) I’ve gotten too close to both the Obama Columbia scandal and the Obama IRS scandal. The closer to the target, the greater the flack.
So let me explain why Obama needed to concoct a fraudulent story to get into Columbia. Getting into an Ivy League University is extremely difficult and transferring in is virtually impossible. Every year, 30,000 kids try to get into a college like Columbia. Only a small fraction are accepted (there were about 700 in our class of 1983). The battle is cutthroat. Virtually all 30,000 are straight-A students, have close-to-perfect SAT scores, and have achieved outsized success at extracurricular activities, too.
Into that dog-eat-dog competition stepped Obama, a young man with no achievements, except an exotic story of Indonesian upbringing. Obama could never have gotten into Columbia out of high school, and his odds of transferring in later were even worse. Last year, Columbia accepted only three transfer students in the entire world. Three. And I guarantee you all three had amazing scholastic and achievement records from other Ivy League colleges like Harvard, Yale or Princeton.
Obama had none of that. By his own admission, he was a poor student who smoked pot, rarely attended class and got mediocre grades from Occidental (a good, but not great, college). His only chance of transferring into Columbia was a made-up story of being an exotic foreigner.
It’s pretty clear how Obama got into Columbia; I believe it was by lying. Obama was a smart kid, even then gave “great interview,” and talked (lied) his way into Columbia as an Indonesian student, using his Jakarta grade school transcripts (and perhaps passport/citizenship papers) as proof. Columbia probably asked very few questions. They were thrilled to have an Indonesian student to brag about. They got what they wanted: “diversity.”
That was Obama’s edge that gained him admittance to the exclusive Ivy League world at Columbia and then Harvard Law School. But that also made him a fraud, who accepted admittance and foreign student aid under false pretenses.
Since selling this fraudulent story had succeeded beyond his wildest imagination, Obama was emboldened. So he used it again to sell a book. Remember: I’m not guessing here. It’s a fact that his book agent described Obama to publishers as “born in Kenya, raised in Indonesia.” There is physical proof of these exact words. Bleeding-heart-liberal Manhattan book publishers bought it hook, line and sinker.
All of this lying and fraud based on a fantasy built an impressive platform for young Obama. It got him the credentials he needed for a career in politics (Columbia, Harvard Law, professor at Chicago Law School). Next, he used that platform to run for office. He won and then won again, becoming a U.S. Senator. People started touting him as a Presidential candidate. All the lies and Barnum-like self-promotion had worked for Obama, too well. Now, he had a deep, dark secret to cover up.
His college records were his Achilles heel. He had to hide his tracks. His college records had to be sealed forever — not because he was a foreigner and unqualified to be President, but because he was an American posing as a foreigner. That makes him a fraud unqualified to be President. Keep in mind he almost certainly would have accepted foreign aid loans or scholarships. That is a crime.
And this story is important for another reason. It tells us everything about the man in the White House who created and sold a pack of lies called Obamacare. He promised it would lower our health insurance costs. Lie. They are up dramatically and set to skyrocket even more next year. He promised we could keep our present insurance. Lie. Millions of Americans are losing their insurance or, worse, their jobs. He promised our quality of care would not be affected. We’re adding 30 million to 40 million new patients, but no new doctors. The waits for care will be shocking. Another lie.
Polls prove 70 percent of all doctors are thinking of retiring. We’ll all be treated by foreign doctors with shaky English and untrustworthy degrees from the University of Grenada. Quality of care will plummet. So there’s another lie. And Obama said there are no “death panels.” Another lie. Healthcare will have to be rationed. Many Americans will either have the most effective treatments denied because of cost or they will die waiting in long lines for treatment. So there’s a lie that could cost you your life.
It all makes sense that Obamacare is one big lie. The man pitching it is a born liar. He made up fantasy stories, delusions, exaggerations, half-truths, cons and misrepresentations his whole life. He did it with ease — to get into college, to get into law school, to get his first book deal and to win political office. His whole life is about a web of fraud and deceit. We’ve been sold down the river by a con man in the White House.
I would love for Obama to release his college records and prove me wrong. But of course he won’t. He can’t, because at the top of his college admissions transcript would be the two words that would destroy his Presidency and legacy: “foreign student.”
No, I’m not a birther. I believe Obama is 100 percent American-born. While never questioning his birth, I’ve been in the media nonstop for five years questioning his allegiance to America, American exceptionalism and Judeo-Christian values.
And I’ve exposed his plan, created by husband-and-wife professors Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven at Columbia, to destroy capitalism by overwhelming the system with spending, debt and entitlements. That purposeful plan is proven by facts; please see record spending, record debt and record entitlements under Obama. This whole giant scandal wrapped in mystery is really about a plan to destroy America carried out by an American who always despised America, American values and capitalism and who posed as a foreigner.
No, Obama isn’t foreign-born, but I believe he is a fraud. And if so, it’s Obama who is the world’s biggest birther. Isn’t real life stranger than fiction? I’m Wayne Allyn Root for Personal Liberty. See you next week. Right back here. Same time, same place. God bless America and protect us from the fraud in the White House.

 

[Itgoes]

What a waste of space in this thread that was.......

 

[MtnMax/Magniac]

On every channel this morning "It's all the Republicans' fault". Of course it is, our Socialist President and his ******* Party cronies said so! Just like the internet, if it's said on TV, it has to be true. :bang head:

 

[Kronx]

I find it funny though...after 9/11 Michael Moore produced farenheit 9/11 talking about out liberties being eroded due to the Bush administration being in bed with the telecom companies (internet spying), eternal detention of prisoners..etc..and now the same thing is going on by this administration...and liberals that were up in arms THEN....are perfectly fine with it now.

Actually, they aren't perfectly fine with it. There's a couple of big liberal new sites that report darn near daily on the NSA's intrusion -- Huffington Post immediately comes to mind. I've seen many of the "outspoken liberals" criticize Obama on the very subjects you mention. They just get lost in the 24/7 news cycle noise and celebrity gossip.

 

[johnblaid]

I used to work for an ambulance service that had the VA contract for southwest oklahoma. The was so much waste. There was a diabetic nursing home patient at Sulpher VA. We took him to OKC VA to get a SINGLE toe cut off because he was diabetic, and had poor wound healing. So....4 trips...4 toes @ 800 to 1000 dollers apiece.

The government proved that they cant even run a whore house, and now they want to run health care...That makes me very afraid.

I demand your proof that the government cannot run a whore house. I refuse to believe this, especially under Obama.

 

[MtnMax/Magniac]

I demand your proof that the government cannot run a whore house. I refuse to believe this, especially under Obama.

The Government IS a whore house, to big money contributors.

 

[ZackDaniels]

So in conclusion, 9/11 was an inside job, people actually care about what Michael Moore has to say, and Obama was/is a pothead. Does that about cover the problems with Obamacare.... ?

Valid point. I have another question now, because I honestly don't know. The money the companies would have been forking over for insurance; where does it go now? Are the companies taxed to make up for it, or do the companies just keep it? Either way, it's still just redistributing money, and either ends up with companies having more money, or the government having more money. If the companies just keep it, then that's taking from the middle class to fund the poor, and taking from them to fund the rich. So, it would basically be removing the middle class from any benefit from it. I sat down and tried to read the obamacare law, but don't have time to read a thousand pages of political writing and figure it out, so undoubtedly, I'm probably wrong about some stuff, but from what I do know, it's just all around bad. It's a good idea to get everyone insurance, and has good parts, but why fund it from the pockets of folks who worked their ***** off to get it on their own?

The companies that were forking over for insurance will continue to do so. More and more every year. Nothing in the law changes that.

The law changes a company's options for providing healthcare. If they are of a certain size they must do so or be fined. The fines are less than the cost of premiums so it's still more cost effective to eat the fines, but there's more incentive to provide employee benefits and get a return on investment instead of just pay a fine with no ROI. Companies are trying to get around that by only hiring part time or reducing their workforce outright. That's short term though, because you need employees to provide your companies goods/services, and if you reduce those you reduce your output and thus make less money anyway. There are temp agencies, contractors, and other forms of outsourcing to work around this as well. Loopholes that will likely be closed as the law evolves, or loopholes that will end up unused because nobody wants to work for those ****** companies and they end up getting smoked by competitors with happy hard working employees.

It should boil out to granting the middle class more employers with incentives to provide insurance. In the meantime, the individual mandate falls to them and the exchanges will make it easier to find an appropriate plan. For those that can't afford it outright there are subsidies available, and for the lower class in states that didn't refuse medicaid expansion there are even more options.

Failing any of those options there's an individual fine of 1% of annual income. Which is simply wasted money for the individual.

It stings for many at first. That's very true, but the alternative is letting the out of control costs continue out of control, and that will end up doing a lot worse than sting.

 

[johnblaid]

The Government IS a whore house, to big money contributors.

So see...they ARE making money on their whore house. Mabey they need to stick with what they can do and let the Military run the country.

The voting thing is, in my opinion, just not working out. Hell. ANYBODY can vote

 

[johnblaid]

So in conclusion, 9/11 was an inside job, people actually care about what Michael Moore has to say, and Obama was/is a pothead. Does that about cover the problems with Obamacare.... ?

completely false...Obama is an ARAB and a MUSLIM and they don't smoke pot. 9/11 was an inside job but not by who you think. But, in fact, some people do actually care about what Michael Moore says...like for instance...AL GORE.

 

[MtnMax/Magniac]

Mabey they need to stick with what they can do and let the Military run the country.

Yeah, that's the ticket! Declare martial law, end all voting, and ALL HAIL KING OBAMA FOREVER! [sarcasm]

 

[poppop]

well anyway .he's got it it's law now,Guess we will wait and see,Glad the government shutdown was fixed patched whatever,All for obamacare,Or whatever.Did anyone notice?Around here they were shutting down manna food program Wic,Talking about the food stamp program.Im not saying they all deserve it,But deserve it or not.They willgo without.And meals on wheels most of that helps the elderly.Damn I hate **** like the hit's the old people.And little ones.If it was happening here it was happening everywhere.Some just have it hard,Heating asstance was next.None of the government give a damn.Warm cosy Well fed, going on another vacation soon.This ******** dosent cost them it cost us!They argue bitch and bikker,And can't agree on ****!Our national dept got to be increased again.They cant spend more than they bring in,No one can!It is gonna keep on until our dollar isn't worth a ****.Then we will all look like Those without!

 

[poppop]

Pearl harbor?I read somewhere that it was caused on purpose.9/11 that too,My god if this is what this country has come to what's next.And I gave a homeless guy 20 bucks.He was a vet,The left side of his face was a mess,No eye,A lot of scars.Wearing a old military jacket.Can I confirm he was no.Didn't have time he was at a intersection.But I can confirm he said god bless you brother.And he almost tore the door off at a hambuger joint.Was I a sucker maybe.But it was worth it to me.War is happening almost constanly.There laying there life on the line,Some make it,Some like my new buddy,Dont do so well.Some come home to be put to rest.And the government even squabbles over that.Ill hush now.