Oil Consumption

[gamorg02]

How many miles do you have on the bike? Low mileage engines can burn a little oil initially especially if ran for long periods at high rpm.

well that makes me feel better.. 5500. she had 1800 when i picked her up in october...

 

[4gasem]

Heh i just realized the OP doesn't actually have a Max yet.

He did... He sold it for the FJR...

 

[gamorg02]

Op?

 

[4gasem]

Original poster

 

[gamorg02]

Original poster

touche'. all i could think of was 'owner previous'

 

[Zenuwlijer]

Let's open up this old thread.



My bike is consuming oil and other than disappearing dino fluid... I cannot find anything wrong with it. Runs like a charm.

No leak.
No smoke.
No greasy plugs.
No loss of power.

Facts:

1. I'm using 20W40 mineral oil.
2. Oil consumption is 1 Liter in 1.000 km when on the highway and / or twisting the throttle.
3. Oil consumption is 0,5 - 0,7 Liter in 1.000 km when I'd be cruisin' a slow 80 km/h.

My guess is that I'd be able to ride it like this for another 10 years, but it does annoy me to be honest.

What do you guys think?

 

[MaxMidnight]

That sounds a lot to me.

That said, if it is running OK then any investigations may only serve to show up something that increases your paranoia.
As you are not seeing any signs of where it s going my best guess would be it being passed as blow-by through the breather system.

If you wanted to investigate further then perhaps a cylinder leakage test would be in order.

 

[Screwloose]

Let's open up this old thread.

My bike is consuming oil and other than disappearing dino fluid... I cannot find anything wrong with it. Runs like a charm.

My guess is that I'd be able to ride it like this for another 10 years, but it does annoy me to be honest.

What do you guys think?

You may find there is a specification for your bike that allows a certain amount of oil usage per mileage, you would need to search for it, but all engines will have an acceptable oil burn, and if it is burning it will show up on the emissions test. I do not know what it is for your case, but it certainly exists for some cars I've had/got. It's common to allow a certain amount of oil burn.

For instance (not my car thank goodness) daughters Peugeot burns 1 ltr every 1k miles and this is common in this car, with nothing showing on the plugs etc, but I know for sure it's entering the combustion chambers and burning very gradually, with no smoke out the back. It shows up on the emissions test and passes just. I have a sports car and there was a spec shown to me by the car manufacturer as an acceptable oil burn at 1 ltr per 1k miles. I do not think you have a problem running the bike and just accepting it could still be within manufacturers spec for oil burn, whatever it may be.

As above though from Mr Midnight; I've had bikes slightly leaking out the breather, and it happens more on some bikes if you like to kick the oil/air/fumes up more in the engine and/or keep the oil at max level.

 

[user 16790]

my bike has not needed a top up between changes yet

 

[Screwloose]

my bike has not needed a top up between changes yet

Same here, although I only do about 1k miles per year on Trigger.

I'm wondering if Mr Midnight may be closer to the answer where the gasket at the top plate on the engine breather may be torn/missing, if so then you would loose some oil out of here by not deflecting the air pressure flow and letting the drips of oil go back into the engine.

 

[Parminio]

I'm using 20W40 mineral oil.

And that is why you're burning oil.

Mineral oil is a lot thicker than regular or synthetic oils.

Mineral oil will flow through the bike a lot more slowly than regular oils, causing it to make the engine overall work harder and allowing the oil to get hotter as it doesn't circulate quickly enough to be cooled off. That's why you're burning through it.

You should also change mineral oil a lot more often than you do regular oils as it doesn't hold up.

https://services.totalenergies.uk/news/what-are-differences-between-synthetic-oil-and-mineral-oil

 

[Screwloose]

And that is why you're burning oil.

Mineral oil is a lot thicker than regular or synthetic oils.

Mineral oil will flow through the bike a lot more slowly than regular oils, causing it to make the engine overall work harder and allowing the oil to get hotter as it doesn't circulate quickly enough to be cooled off. That's why you're burning through it.

Thats a thought as mineral oil has larger molecules and is used sometimes to fill in larger tolerance gaps as an engine wears. Mineral oil, as my previous readings tell me, is better at absorbing sudden temp spikes, but I never thought about it circulating and getting the temp to the casings and ultimately out to the atmosphere.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Mineral oil is a lot thicker than regular or synthetic oils.

Mineral oil will flow through the bike a lot more slowly than regular oils, causing it to make the engine overall work harder and allowing the oil to get hotter as it doesn't circulate quickly enough to be cooled off. That's why you're burning through it.

You should also change mineral oil a lot more often than you do regular oils as it doesn't hold up.

https://services.totalenergies.uk/news/what-are-differences-between-synthetic-oil-and-mineral-oil

Thats a thought as mineral oil has larger molecules and is used sometimes to fill in larger tolerance gaps as an engine wears. Mineral oil, as my previous readings tell me, is better at absorbing sudden temp spikes, but I never thought about it circulating and getting the temp to the casings and ultimately out to the atmosphere.

As always, I stand to be corrected but surely it is the viscosity rating of the oil that will determine how 'fast' it flows at a given temperature rather than the constituent chemicals?

If it was down to the base constituents i.e. Mineral, semi or fully synthetic then oils with the same rating would flow at different rates.

 

[Screwloose]

As always, I stand to be corrected but surely it is the viscosity rating of the oil that will determine how 'fast' it flows at a given temperature rather than the constituent chemicals?

If it was down to the base constituents i.e. Mineral, semi or fully synthetic then oils with the same rating would flow at different rates.

I had to think about this for a bit, but Parminio may be correct.

The kinematic (dynamic) viscosity is determined by what it says on the front of the can, in this case 40. It is the viscosity at the API spec of 100 deg C, or 212 F. In general our bikes probably get to about 90 deg C then the fan comes on, not only to protect the engine materials, but also the oil.

My theory on this is mineral oil having larger molecules will take more time to react and spread heat around, it also takes longer to work itself into very small areas as the molecules are larger. Mineral oil in my understanding is better at absorbing temp spikes, but it does not mean this will transfer the heat to the outer levels and let the temp latch onto the casings and ultimately exit, the temp spike absorption may be local. So taking longer to react and spread heat may mean that small areas of heat would build up and slightly burn the oil at selected points, create gas, and exit the oil breather as fumes.

I think Parminio's point on the oil being thicker, may be the wrong wording in a very strict manner due to the oil kinematic viscosity being the same with mineral to synthetic oil comparison at 40 (either in centipoise or centistokes I cant remember), but the general idea of the post points in the correct direction. It would then depend on the two oils in question, and whether one has a better heat transfer than the other. I think Parminio is saying the mineral oil has less heat transfer, so a bit of oil burning and fumes appear from time to time and end up on the street as your driving around, hence no evidence of oil being used up.

 

[Parminio]

There's a big difference between viscosity and molecular makeup.

That's why you don't use virgin olive oil for deep frying foods. The oil will actually begin to burn long before it gets to the appropriate temperature whereas vegetable oil of the same viscosity will not.

 

[Screwloose]

There's a big difference between viscosity and molecular makeup.

You have changed your picture, are you getting confused at this junction?

 

[Parminio]

You have changed your picture, are you getting confused at this junction?

Yep.

Something happened to my original avatar and I don't know what. The one I was using was the artwork I sent in for the truss rod cover on the guitar I built for my daughter. My original avatar was a picture of my helmet. I need to take another one and fix it for good.

 

[Zenuwlijer]

Mineral oil

I was under the (false?) impression that the Vmax should run dino oil.

I quoted this from the link you posted:

"Mineral oils are ideal for older vehicle models that were developed to run on less technologically advanced lubricants ..."

 

[Parminio]

I would never run mineral oil in anything. I use it to treat my wooden cutting boards and that's about it.

I've run Mobil 1 4T racing 10 w 40 full synthetic in every bike I've ever owned.

Final avatar change made for those concerned.

 

[Screwloose]

I was under the (false?) impression that the Vmax should run dino oil.

I quoted this from the link you posted:

"Mineral oils are ideal for older vehicle models that were developed to run on less technologically advanced lubricants ..."

I think that would partly depend on whether the engine is rattling or not, as mineral oil with larger molecules do a good job of filling the tolerance gaps that have developed over time. But another consideration would be how you run the bike.