Programmable TCI - plug & play group purchase feeler

[dingy]

I am checking to see if there would be enough interest from members to make it feasible for me to buy about 10 (or more) of the Ignitech TCIP4 V80 TCI ignition modules. These units would be a 30 minute or less job to install & be riding with.

I would get these units from Ignitech, pre-load a VMax program setup with mileage and performance balanced. The adapter harness would include the wiring for the pressure sensor that the TCI uses. The stock VMax boost sensor is not compatible with the Ignitech unit & can't be used. I would supply either a brand new boost sensor or one from a auto recycler, the second option being much more economical & would be fully tested by me.

I will be able to supply unit in either 85-89, 4 pickup coils or 90-07, 1 pickup coil versions .

Ignitech Site link:

http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm

I can get these units and resell them with a gently used boost sensor, fully tested and ready to go for $225 US plus shipping. If a new boost sensor is wanted the cost would increase by about $50 (subject to change). I would need a partial prepayment in order to finance this. Balance of payment due when ready to ship by me. Turn around time would be about 2 weeks. It would take me about a week to get TCI's and some time to wire & test them.

And being upfront about it, this is about $25 less than the unit can be purchased from Ignitech and the cost of a used boost sensor factored in.

All that would be needed by user to utilize this unit would be to unplug the 2 cables from the existing TCI & plug them into the adapter harness. Then mount the TCI, which is slightly larger than a pack of smokes & mount the boost sensor. Connect the hose from the #2 intake boot to the boost sensor.

The TCI can be hooked up to a laptop that either has a com port or one with a USB port & an adapter that will be made available. It will not be necessary to have a laptop hookup if you do not desire to modify the program I would load in it. With the use of a laptop connection, the user can customize settings as desired.

The Ignitech thread on the Venture site is located at link below, there is a lot of info in it. You may need to sign in for a 60 free trial to be able to view it. I will supply an electronic manual with the TCI. I will also put on the CD any useful info I have collected while using this unit. Each CD will have additional info such as bike wiring schematics and other items not supplied by Ignitech. The Ignitech manual, TCIP4 program and initial module program will also be included.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40414

1st picture shows the TCI, wiring harness, a used pressure sensor and the software CD. Also are extra pins Ignitech supplies if user wants to add other non-utilized features of TCI, such as fuel pump relay control, shift light, inputs for shut off features. Also, so far I have not been able to get the Servo mode of the Ignitech TCI to drive the gerard motor. Ignitech only puts out 5vdc max signal for motor. I am working on a solution for this issue. The Vboost will still operate with its original controller though.

2nd picture shows an boost sensor.

3rd picture shows end view of TCI

4th picture shows adapter harness with boost sensor leads.

5th picture shows Miscellaneous settings screen

6th picture shows Bike settings screen

7th picture shows 2D advance map example, would be different in supplied format.

8th picture shows 3D advance map example, would be different in supplied format.

Last picture shows test screen.

Gary

 

[satariel666]

I was considering buying this some time ago - but I have already invested in DK3 the same money - I think its coool. As far I can see you can even plug the TPS - like some FCR carbs, ey?

On the side not - they are placed about 100 miles from my home - I exactly know where the Prelouc is LOL
I can pay them a visit :biglaugh:

 

[Black Ty Afair]

You can count me in! I will be out of town for about A week, but when I get back I would love to get roll'n on this.

 

[Bacchus]

Please provide some info as to the benefits of this mod

 

[KJShover]

Please provide some info as to the benefits of this mod

They don't make the Dyna 3000 for the pre '90's Gen 1's, This gives '85-89 Vmax owners another option for an ignition module and the '90-07 owners another option for an ignition other than the Dyna 3000.

Programability of adance curves and such, it has, is just the gravy on the biscuits:biglaugh:

 

[sarchin]

I am very interested in this also, but why won't the stock boost sensor work and what do you do to the other sensors to make it work?

 

[SpecOps13]

85-89's??? You have my attention. Sounds similar to the Datona Twin Tech I have in my Sportster. It makes a huge improvement over the stock module. I'm thinking like Bacchus, what are the benifits from this unit with your programming??? Would we need to taylor the program to our specific bikes??
Thanx Gary,

Dave

 

[dingy]

I am very interested in this also, but why won't the stock boost sensor work and what do you do to the other sensors to make it work?

The stock booster is a 12vdc based system. If someone could check a couple of things with a meter, there is a chance they can be made to work. What I need to know is does the stock boost sensor ever put out a voltage of more than 5VDC. Is the voltage output at a given RPM & load like idling steady when the battery voltage changes. This could be checked by reading the output voltage of stock sensor then turning on all the accessories on the bike like lights, running lights whatever. If the out put voltage varies then it is not a good candidate to use.

The Ignitech module only has a window of voltage that it can read from 0vdc to 5vdc on the TPS input. I have attached a picture showing the high and low range that is settable. The procedure to set the TPS output is to have unit hooked up, bike warmed up and idleing. On the Miscellaneous tab there are two Voltage modifiable setting points. You run the 0% TPS number up to the lowest voltage that the Bar sensor puts out. Then by cracking the throttle and seeing what the highest voltage output is the upper range is run down to this number. With these to numbers set somewhat close to actual output, the TCI then is able to calculate and use the full spectrum of the bar output. In the Misc screen on the right side, there is a TP=--% field. This field will show the percentage of bar output when bike is hooked up to TCI.

In the ignitech module there is a 5vdc regulated power supply, this is used to drive the General Motors style 1 bar senor that we have been using. Actually, Ignitech assumes the a Throttle position sensor (TPS) will be used. The TPS is not a good indicator of load on the motor as a Bar sensor is though. Plus mounting a TPS is much more complicated to do. I have on, and was considering at one time mounting it to the crossover bar between the right & left carb banks, but decided to go with the bar sensor.

Another advantage of the Ignitech TCI is that it has a variable dwell setting that can be used when COP's are used to compensate for the lower primary coil resistance. This setting is on the Misc. tab, left center block titled Dwell, I have it set to manual in this view, so some other options for settings are displayed.

There are a number of other options that are discussed in the manual that is attached below. The files in the attached Zip file are:
110523a_tcip4A_v80.exe - software programming module
manual_sparker_tcip4_v80_en.pdf - Ignitechs supplied manual
v-max old venture.ign - Ignitechs supplied timing IGN file
GDD V80 map.ign - IGN file as I ran it last year

The Ignitech software, manual, stock IGN file & IGN file I am running are attached in the zip file below. You can run the 110523a_tcip4A_v80.exe file and see the programs ability. It will run fine without being hooked to a TCI. When program is running, load either the stock IGN file or my IGN file via the file open command.

Below are links to 3 videos did whhile experimenting with the Bar sensor. They show the Advance screen and the effect that putting a small vacuum canister in the line achieved. These were taken last year when I was using the prior version of the TCI, Version 75. I just got my new module (V80) Friday and haven't got it in yet. Any TCI's purchased will be the V80 units. I tied all 4 vacuum ports together when I was using canister.

First one shows the TPS value varying without the canister installed.

http://youtu.be/wqhoGqGE4_A

Second one shows how canister smoothed out TPS value.

http://youtu.be/ghQNJn23sAo

Third is showing RPM's being varied.

http://youtu.be/u3K3CKEMxvA

Gary

 

[sarchin]

Thanks Dingy for explaining this some more. I'm going to check this out further on the websites to learn more about it as it sounds very cool.

I will check the voltage on my boost sensor, and post the results in a little bit. I am running an Odyssey PC 680 battery, and I haven't done anything to my charging system since I bought it back in February. It'll be interesting to see how my charging system is working anyways!

Are you looking for a steady voltage less than 5vdc or is a fluctuation from 0 - 5vdc ok? So far, it sounds like the output cannot exceed the 5vdc of the module.

Also, I noticed in the first picture that there is a rev limiter setting - is this functional?

Thanks again

 

[dingy]

85-89's??? You have my attention. Sounds similar to the Datona Twin Tech I have in my Sportster. It makes a huge improvement over the stock module. I'm thinking like Bacchus, what are the benifits from this unit with your programming??? Would we need to taylor the program to our specific bikes??
Thanx Gary,

Dave

The program I would send will not be optimized for an given bike. But it will be a good starting point. It is much better than the stock program supplied by Ignitech.

One thing that will vary slightly between bikes is the TPS/Bar sensor calibration. It will be close but not perfect.

Having the VMax guys get into this TCI and figuring out how to get more power out of the motor is the motivation for me to try to purchase a quantity of these. The Venture site has been helpful in getting to the point I am at now with it, but they aren't into the performance end as much as you guys are. I have the most radical bike that I know of on that site, but here, its just an average motor.

Gary

 

[dingy]

Thanks Dingy for explaining this some more. I'm going to check this out further on the websites to learn more about it as it sounds very cool.

I will check the voltage on my boost sensor, and post the results in a little bit. I am running an Odyssey PC 680 battery, and I haven't done anything to my charging system since I bought it back in February. It'll be interesting to see how my charging system is working anyways!

Are you looking for a steady voltage less than 5vdc or is a fluctuation from 0 - 5vdc ok? So far, it sounds like the output cannot exceed the 5vdc of the module.

Also, I noticed in the first picture that there is a rev limiter setting - is this functional?

Thanks again

What I would like to see is if the input voltage to the sensor causes a change in the output voltage with the bike at a constant RPM. The Ignitech unit uses a steady 5VDC output. The VMax 12VDC input voltage will vary into the boost sensor, thus possibly causing a varying out put dependent on input. This varying output voltage would be interpreted by the TCI as a load condition change on the motor. It may have a minimal affect, but I would rather avoid it.

Also if the stock boost sensor puts out anything over 5VDC, the overage cannot be read by the TCI and may damage it. Same thing if a boost sensor went bad and dumped 12VDC in TCI, I would like to avoid that. The BAR sensor is powered by 5vdc so it therefor can't exceed the TCI voltage expectation.

Rev limiter is fully functional and can at any point desired. It doesn't kill the engine when you over RPM it like some bikes do. It is more of a sputtering effect, not a great description, but is not like all of a sudden hitting a wall.

Gary

 

[RaWarrior]

Hmm....interesting to be sure. And the price seems very reasonable for a fully programmable ignition.

I'm definitely interested, would like to see some "seat of the pants" effects, how much better is it than the stock TCI in the real world? Having a rev limiter would be a plus, but if power, mileage, or response could be improved then it'd really be cool.

 

[sarchin]

OK, just to be sure I measured the correct voltage, I measured the yellow wire on the round connector, both plugged in and unplugged and I had a voltage range from 4.9vdc to 5.1vdc all the way up to 6K.

My bike is an '85

My other charging numbers are
cold and warm engine - 12.7 volts to 13.4 volts from 1k to 3k rpms, and the voltage stayed the same with the blinker, hi-beam, and brake light all on.

If you need another measurement let me know

 

[dingy]

OK, just to be sure I measured the correct voltage, I measured the yellow wire on the round connector, both plugged in and unplugged and I had a voltage range from 4.9vdc to 5.1vdc all the way up to 6K.

My bike is an '85

My other charging numbers are
cold and warm engine - 12.7 volts to 13.4 volts from 1k to 3k rpms, and the voltage stayed the same with the blinker, hi-beam, and brake light all on.

If you need another measurement let me know

Can you get a reading at the TCI across pins 4 & 5 on the TCI. These are the two pins closest to the edge on the 8 pin connector. These will be the output voltage of the boost sensor. See attached picture of stock TCI layout. The bottom right one should be negative & the top one positive.

Just a note, I don't have a stock sensor to check this, gave it away.

Based on those readings you just posted, I would not use the stock sensor. There is not enough voltage differential to be effective.

The 1 Bar sensor I am using has a voltage change from 2.3vdc to 4.0vdc.

Gary

 

[sarchin]

I, um, don't know how to get the TCI out, and I couldn't see any 8 pin connectors. I found a 6 and a 9 and several smaller ones. Where do I find this at?

 

[blvdblaster1200]

there are some of us doing the turbo project that need to be able to retard ign timing as boost rises.this may be a candidate.im wondering if we could use a 2 bar or more sensor.maybe we could get satariel to chat them up a bit since there us a language barrier.ill ask him.

 

[dingy]

Ignitech also makes another TCI similar to the TCIP4 unit.

In addition to what the TCIP4 is capable of it has a Nitrous Retard feature built in.

Racer 3 would be $60 more.

The software is not as advanced as the TCIP4 in some areas, It does not have the 3D mapping for the advance tab. And the Coil dwell settings do not have as much adjustment.

Below is a cut from manual with their detailing of some features.

CLUTCH MASTER input.
One outlet of CLUTCH MASTER switch should be connected to connector (8) and the other one should be connected to GND (4, 16, 17). If CLUTCH MASTER switch is activated, the unit blocks ignition for a defined period of time. This provides for higher gearshift without clutch and gas shut-off, thus minimizing the time losses during gear shifting. Blocking time can be adjusted within RACING3.EXE software. Reverse polarity of the CLUTCH MASTER switch can be configured within RACING3.EXE software.

TACHO/LAMBDA switch input.
One TACHO/LAMBDA outlet of should be connected to connector (2) and the other one should be connected to GND (4, 16). If TACHO/LAMBDA switch is activated, the unit displays lambda sensor voltage on the tachometer (instead of revolution) Displayed sensitivity: 0.4 ? 0.9 V as 0 ? 12000 rpm. Reverse polarity of the switch can be configured within RACING3.EXE software.

N2O injection output.
Maximum Injection valve output current is 10 A (just for a short period of time - about 30 s). The N2O is injected only if "N2O enable" in program RACING3.EXE is checked, TPS > 85 %, input ACTIVATE N2O is active, start limiter isn't active and revolution is greater than 2000 rpm. N2O injection settings as well as delay after ignition are adjusted within RACING3.EXE software. Together with N2O supply so-called RETARD is activated ? advance reduction. RETARD and its delay settings after ignition are adjusted within RACING3.EXE software. One N2O injection valve outlet should be connected to connector (23) and the other one should be connected to key switched + 12V.

1st picture is of Racer 3 Misc tab, note reduced functions of exitation time.

2nd picture is of N20 Controller tab

3rd picture is of Advance tab, note reduced viewing options.

As far as the reduced viewing options, if desired the 10 x 10 grid of advance numbers could be loaded into the TCIP4 software for viewing. It has more graphic output abilities.

Also attached is the Racer 3 manual.

Gary

 

[sdt354]

The program I would send will not be optimized for an given bike. But it will be a good starting point. It is much better than the stock program supplied by Ignitech.

One thing that will vary slightly between bikes is the TPS/Bar sensor calibration. It will be close but not perfect.

Having the VMax guys get into this TCI and figuring out how to get more power out of the motor is the motivation for me to try to purchase a quantity of these. The Venture site has been helpful in getting to the point I am at now with it, but they aren't into the performance end as much as you guys are. I have the most radical bike that I know of on that site, but here, its just an average motor.

Gary

Got my pm Gary? I'm in.
Steve

 

[sdt354]

The Dyna rev limiter for Gen 1's alone is $200I believe. I like this better.I've looked down at my tach past 10k too many times.
There should be a pony or two availaable with a quicker advnce curve and then maybe higher octane gas? Sean, Mike, Joe....everyone else ? Am I thinking too automotive here?
Steve-o

 

[blvdblaster1200]

I have a email in to the company ill let you guys know what they say regarding turbo applications.