Progressive Shocks Dilemma Need suspension Guru's!

[82ndCowboy]

OK VMFers...
Needs some help. I'm way over thinking ****!

I've finally decided I want Progressive Rear Shocks. But I want the new 444's. Well actually I want the RaceTech's to match my front forks, but I cant justify spending $1800. on rear shocks. But I digress.

The stock vmax shocks have a travel length of 3.35" / 85mm and an installed length of 8.56" / 217.4mm.
It says nothing of the 13" shock. But I'm going to trust that because, that is what all the smarter than me peeps says it is, and I've never taken them off and measured them.

On the 444's , Progressive shows I need their 11" 444-4235 which only has a travel length of 2.02" / 51mm and a target ride of 10.25" / 260mm.
Now they also have different length 444's. Their 13" 444-4238 shows travel length of 2.94" / 75mm and a target ride of 12.00" / 305mm.
Their 13.5" 444-4239 shows travel length of 3.40" / 86mm and target ride of 12.25" / 311mm.

So the 1st question is: Do I go with what Progressive recommends in the 11" or are they wrong and I need the 13", or even the 13.5 to match the travel length?
I'm worried that if I go with the 13.5 the ride height will be too much even though the travel length is correct. And their target ride is way too high compared to the installed length.
How Important is the travel length?
Progressive also shows the spring rate on the 11" is 105-150 lbs/in
Stock VMax is K1 109.1 lbs/in
K2 151.3 lbs/in
So 2nd Question is: What is the K1 K2 Listed in the Yamaha manual????
I'm not trying to match the spring rate, because that is what Up-Grading the shocks is all about! I just wondering what that is about?

What I'm trying to decipher is how important is the travel length and ride height length? Once I get that figured out I can work on choosing the spring rate for my weight, for which they have 3 different springs.

Now I did look up the specs on the Progressive 412 13" as well. The one a lot of vmaxers always upgrade to.
It shows travel length of 3.89" / 99mm with a target ride of 11.75" / 298mm. Which is close to the stock VMax shock travel length.

3rd Question: Does putting the Progressive 412 13" change the ride height???

And that is why I am having this dilemma.
Should I get the 444 that is 13" or closest to the 412 travel length?
Or do I go with what Progressive says to get, the 11"?
I called Progressive and they are NO help. They throw the the damn liability card out and say I can only get the ones listed for VMAX.

 

[Fire-medic]

The VMax shock OEM, is 13" O.C.

You should get the 13" O.C. aftermarket shock if you don't have to reduce the shock length because you're short. And then, the only changes recommended are 12.5" or 12" if you must. The trade-off is less ground clearance, and if you still have a centerstand, you could lever up your bike off its contact patch during enthusiastic cornering.

A good rule of thumb is to change the front suspension the same amount that you alter the rear suspension. This maintains balance in handling.

 

[82ndCowboy]

The VMax shock OEM, is 13" O.C.

You should get the 13" O.C. aftermarket shock if you don't have to reduce the shock length because you're short. And then, the only changes recommended are 12.5" or 12" if you must. The trade-off is less ground clearance, and if you still have a centerstand, you could lever up your bike off its contact patch during enthusiastic cornering.

A good rule of thumb is to change the front suspension the same amount that you alter the rear suspension. This maintains balance in handling.

So that's 1 vote for Progressive is wrong with the 11" for the VMax.
Yeah I'm looking to keep the stock height. Not interested in lowering it at all. But I don't want to raise it either. I'm not schooled enough on the dimensions of shocks and their specs. The Stock shock specs says nothing about the shock length, so it's confusing as to what the important specs to follow are. I'm also concerened about the shorter travel length in the 444 13"
Never really cared for the look of the 412 either. But I am liking the 444 a lot. And now that I decided on the black springs instead of chrome. I'm ready to knock this off the todo list.
Mod monkey's belly is getting too damn fa... GET OFF ME ... dammmit!

 

[82ndCowboy]

I REALLLY really really want these RaceTech G3-S's. But I would have to give up some of my gold stash. But I'm just a novice rider who likes to put around with the heat in my crotch and tunes in my helmet. So it's not really cost effective for me.

 

[MaxMidnight]

If you are a novice rider with 'average' riding abilities (like most of us) then spending lots f money of high spec. shocks is, IMO, not money well spent.
It is unlikely you will notice any significant difference when riding (bragging rights aren't as much though! )

As Mr Medic suggests, having shocks with the same length as OE is a good starting point so 13" would get my vote as well.
Just to throw another pebble into the pool is considering the spring rate of the shocks. This will determine the sag and to what degree you can control it.

I don't have any experience with the 444;s but from what I have read here they get good press so would be a good investment.

 

[Traumahawk]

I have the 444s, 11 inch as well, and really do love them. I have racetechs installed in the front, with the emulators. To keep the bike "even", I dropped the front springs an inch internally, and then have the forks raised in the triple trees 1.25 inches. That being said the ride is amazing, vs stock. I really do think that you will be happy going this route. I've never had any issues with this, even when my wife and I are riding 2 up.

 

[82ndCowboy]

I have the 444s, 11 inch as well, and really do love them. I have racetechs installed in the front, with the emulators. To keep the bike "even", I dropped the front springs an inch internally, and then have the forks raised in the triple trees 1.25 inches. That being said the ride is amazing, vs stock. I really do think that you will be happy going this route. I've never had any issues with this, even when my wife and I are riding 2 up.

So the 11" lowered it, correct?

 

[Traumahawk]

So the 11" lowered it, correct?

Yes it did. Roughly 2 inches.

 

[82ndCowboy]

Yes it did. Roughly 2 inches.

Thanks hawk...
That helps.
It confirms my suspicion that Progessive showing 11" shock is wrong.
Unless of course you want to lower the Vmax.

 

[82ndCowboy]

Yes it did. Roughly 2 inches.

Also, do you know weather you got the standard weight spring or the heavy?

 

[CaptainKyle]

Also, do you know weather you got the standard weight spring or the heavy?

Your little bony ass does not need the heavy spring.lol

 

[82ndCowboy]

Your little bony ass does not need the heavy spring.lol

Maybe I found a fat chick who likes to press her ******* against by back?

 

[one2dmax]

Let me burst your bubble a bit. Progressive has discontined all Vmax shocks except SOME of the 412's. No more 444's specific for the Vmax.

Also note. The shorter you go on the shock the less travel they will have. That's pretty consistent for all brands. If you kept the same travel as you lowered the bike you would start bottoming out on parts very soon.

 

[82ndCowboy]

Let me burst your bubble a bit. Progressive has discontined all Vmax shocks except SOME of the 412's. No more 444's specific for the Vmax.

Also note. The shorter you go on the shock the less travel they will have. That's pretty consistent for all brands. If you kept the same travel as you lowered the bike you would start bottoming out on parts very soon.

Yeah thats what they told me when I called them.
Which is why I was trying to decipher the whole shocks specs quagmire and find a Harley set that matches.
Cause you know damn well the are still making them.

 

[Traumahawk]

Thanks hawk...
That helps.
It confirms my suspicion that Progessive showing 11" shock is wrong.
Unless of course you want to lower the Vmax.

Here is a pic of the 07 from a few years ago. It does sit a little bit lower.

 

[82ndCowboy]

Well seeing how no one seems to know the answer to,
Which is more important, travel length or target ride height?
I'm going to see if I can find a 444 that's the closet match to the specs on the 412 13" and run with it.

I'm gonna skin or **** this cat!

Your not going to burst my bubble Mr Flip Morley.

 

[82ndCowboy]

Ok pulled the trigger on a set of 444's.
Went with the 444-4020B 13" in Black.

I compared the spring rate diferences in the 412 11" and the 13".
And as the shock gets shorter the spring rate goes up.

So I then looked up the 444 11" progessive shows for the vmax. Which is 115/155.
So the 444 13" should have a lighter spring rate. The next spring rate down is a 105/150.
Which matches the spring rate on the 412 13" that progressive shows for the VMax.

[And that Mr. Kyle, is why I asked about the standard or heavy spring on traumahawks shock. Not because of the size of my ass.]

The target Ride height is a 1/4" higher than the 412's and the travel length is .41 inches less. But I'm going to throw the dice and see what happens. Think I can adjust it so it's not a factor, with preload.

That my friends, is how you skin a cat.
I'll update everyone on how it turns out.

 

[Davelaf]

Not sure what cat you skinned, but how much did you get the 444s for?

 

[82ndCowboy]

Not sure what cat you skinned, but how much did you get the 444s for?

I'm trying out a new guy. I know him from Deals Gap.
He sold them to me at dealer cost. $575.00

 

[Davelaf]

I'm trying out a new guy. I know him from Deals Gap.
He sold them to me at dealer cost. $575.00

Quality isn't cheap, it's about 100$ steps from 12s, to 430s to 444. And nowadays what's a 100 bucks?.