Promptly After Disengaging Clutch the bike dies

[TurcoLoco]

Hi Guys,

I am the one with the stripped and seized idle mixture screws like 9 months ago. I ended up getting used replacement carbs from Sean (thanks again Sean for all your help).

In short, I was not able to get around to completely getting the bike the run smoothly for long periods so I just recently got around to rebuilding the all 4 carbs completely.

Now, the bike starts and idles just fine, but when I put it in gear and try to ride, it hesitates a second or two and dies. It is not something simple like the kickstand switch as the bike runs without dying if I put it in gear while on center stand. What gives? Choke close and it still dies. Even if I open the throttle to various degrees, it still dies.

Do you guys think this is still a running lean or rich type issue or clutch or something else? I am at my wits end. :ummm:

I appreciate your tips and opinions.

 

[KJShover]

does the engine bog as soon as you put it in gear?
It sounds like it might be your clutch isn't fully engaging and stalling your engine.

 

[VMAX1260]

does your clutch lever feels strong ? if not you should take out the air from your system and add new dot 4 fluid. with engine off and in gear , if you press your clutch lever can you push and move your bike ?

 

[naughtyG]

Does it die also in gear on the center stand if you try to accelerate? (do this carefully just in case!)

There are three safety switches that will kill the motor:
1 - side stand switch
2 - clutch lever switch
3 - neutral switch

Make sure all are working normally, or try bypassing them and see what happens.

Lastly, is everything back in place over the carbs? All boots, air filter, airbox with top on etc? Mine would always die if I tried accelerating with the airbox open - in gear or not.

Are you able to rev the motor freely while it's in neutral on the stand?

 

[TurcoLoco]

does the engine bog as soon as you put it in gear?
It sounds like it might be your clutch isn't fully engaging and stalling your engine.

When I did some online research about this, this was one of the possibilities people suggested and it still might be but the bike does not die when I put it in gear, it actually goes in as usual, no strange reaction. Then when I start letting go of the clutch and the bike kind of starts moving but depending on how much throttle support I provide, it either dies abruptly or goes a few feet and then dies but I never really feel the "pull" in the back wheel as I normally have when the bike ran fine. The bike never really sat longer than 4-5 weeks at a time so why would it effect the clutch if it really is the clutch?

does your clutch lever feels strong ? if not you should take out the air from your system and add new dot 4 fluid. with engine off and in gear , if you press your clutch lever can you push and move your bike ?

That is the thing, I suspected the fluid/clutch lever even though I flushed the fluid back in Summer of 2010 and it looks fine and feels good. The bike does move easy enough in gear and when I pull the clutch which is why I couldn't suspect clutch. :confused2:

Does it die also in gear on the center stand if you try to accelerate? (do this carefully just in case!)
No, it runs and it accelerates, I put it in 1st gear and rev'ed and it looked fine, then 2nd gear and rev'ed, the same thing.

There are three safety switches that will kill the motor:
1 - side stand switch
2 - clutch lever switch
3 - neutral switch

Make sure all are working normally, or try bypassing them and see what happens.

Definitely not the 1st one, as I double-checked that one and it was fine, also it ran in gear while on center stand so wouldn't that prove the kickstand switch wasn't the culprit?

But, I am not sure about the last two. If they function like the kickstand switch then again, wouldn't the bike running in gear and revving prove it is none of the switches? If I am wrong then I will have to check those 2 for sure just don't have the clue where they are.

Lastly, is everything back in place over the carbs? All boots, air filter, airbox with top on etc? Mine would always die if I tried accelerating with the airbox open - in gear or not.

Are you able to rev the motor freely while it's in neutral on the stand?

Oh yeah, everything was back in their place before I disconnected batteryminder.

Thanks again guys for all your help!:worthy:
Now, where are the darn neutral and clutch lever switches?

 

[wildweasel_pt]

Clutch switch is on the clutch master and the neutral switch is underneath the clutch slave towards the middle of the engine. If you look underneath the middle drive cover aligned with the clutch slave you will see the switch wired below and behind it... Its number 1 below

 

[naughtyG]

Now, where are the darn neutral and clutch lever switches?

The clutch lever switch is right there - at the clutch master cylinder! There are two small wires connected to it, so it's easy to bypass (by either connecting together or leaving completely disconnected - can't remember which way it worx)

The neutral switch is in the gearbox. I think it's kind easy to see in the left-hand side of the engine where a pair of wires run to a small 2-prong connector, and again it's easy to isolate/bypass.

However, since you're able to accelerate and go through gears on the stand none of the above seems to make sense - I'm pretty sure that if one of these had a problem the bike would die as soon as you let go of the clutch while in gear with the engine running? Worth a shot tho - try bypassing either or both and see what happens.

Out of interest, with the bike on the stand and running in first or second, can you kill it by simply kicking the kickstand down? If yes it still may be that this switch is loose or broken and kills it when you try to move off. Try bypassing it too!

 

[TurcoLoco]

Clutch switch is on the clutch master and the neutral switch is underneath the clutch slave towards the middle of the engine. If you look underneath the middle drive cover aligned with the clutch slave you will see the switch wired below and behind it... Its number 1 below

I got the location of the clutch lever but not so sure about the neutral switch. I will have to refer to the manual for the exact location.
Thanks!

The clutch lever switch is right there - at the clutch master cylinder! There are two small wires connected to it, so it's easy to bypass (by either connecting together or leaving completely disconnected - can't remember which way it worx)

The neutral switch is in the gearbox. I think it's kind easy to see in the left-hand side of the engine where a pair of wires run to a small 2-prong connector, and again it's easy to isolate/bypass.

However, since you're able to accelerate and go through gears on the stand none of the above seems to make sense - I'm pretty sure that if one of these had a problem the bike would die as soon as you let go of the clutch while in gear with the engine running? Worth a shot tho - try bypassing either or both and see what happens.

That is what I thought as well, I mean it sounds like if the culprit was any one of those 3, then I would not have been able to change gears and accelerate while it was on center stand and since I have limited mechanical experience, I cannot do any further troubleshooting. My forte is computers not bikes (but I am trying to learn)! :confused2:
Wonder what other logical possibilities I could check for?

Out of interest, with the bike on the stand and running in first or second, can you kill it by simply kicking the kickstand down? If yes it still may be that this switch is loose or broken and kills it when you try to move off. Try bypassing it too!

Shouldn't a working kickstand switch kill the engine? I mean, I would be more worried if it didn't kill the engine but I will check on these switches and try to bypass them. The fact that the bike tries and does move forward a few feet albeit with great hesitation didn't make the switch possibility realistic. Wouldn't a faulty switch just kill the engine immediately?
Just doesn't make sense. Why does it die when it is on the ground with me on it but not on the center stand? :ummm:

 

[naughtyG]

Just doesn't make sense. Why does it die when it is on the ground with me on it but not on the center stand? :ummm:

The one thing I'm unclear about is how you say it 'hesitates' when you're on it. Can you describe this a bit more?

There is always a possibility that one of the switches or wires are intermittent, and that when you're on the bike/it's moving the contact gets lost. That's why I said try bypassing each switch in turn to see what happens - they're all the same, you either leave them completely disconnected or short the two wires to bypass, whichever way works. It would be good to proceed by elimination for all three. You don't need to get to the actual switches - just follow the wires going to them to the nearest connector and unplug/short there.

 

[gamorg02]

is it almost like it doesn't have enough power to move the bike? that might be something different altogether. i think someone else ran into this issue a while back. mines only acted like that once when i got water where i wasn't supposed to and it wasn't 'firing' right.

 

[tothemax93]

I'm just sat down and started reading some of the symptoms of the problem. It sounds like trying to take off in to high a gear. could the transmission be stuck in 4th or 5th gear. Just a thought.

 

[TurcoLoco]

I said it hesitates but it is more like, doesn't have enough power for the weight of the bike plus my fat@ss hence dying abruptly. Needless to say, you guys know what the insane torque you feel at the rear wheel once the clutch engages the gear, right? Well, there is none of that, it seems to go in gear but I feel no power, no pull at the rear wheel, really weird and hard to describe.

I also want to check the clutch fluid and probably try bleeding it using suction, etc. to see if it helps. I also want to check on how powerful and fast it will go while in gear and on the center stand, when I test it yesterday, it was quite prompt but I could still feel that the tire wasn't turning as fast as it should have while in 2nd gear and rolling the throttle. Somehow my gut tells me it might be the clutch but why and how it would go bad out of the blue?
Someone mentioned changing oil to resolve the shot or sticky clutch plates issue, do you guys think it would help? Engine oil is Full synthetic Mobil 1, about 8 months old but has less than 1000 miles on it and it looked OK.
I am out of ideas and totally bummed.

 

[jfeagins]

Fuel pump OK? If it has extremely low flow, it might have enough to get by idling, but not enough gas under load.

....just thinking out loud.....

 

[TurcoLoco]

I'm just sat down and started reading some of the symptoms of the problem. It sounds like trying to take off in to high a gear. could the transmission be stuck in 4th or 5th gear. Just a thought.

I do not know how that would happen nor how to fix it but that is almost like the issue. Bike runs and revs really strong but when I put it in 1st or 2nd gear and try to take off, it dies like it is in a very high gear.
How can I confirm this or better yet fix this? :ummm:

 

[TurcoLoco]

Fuel pump OK? If it has extremely low flow, it might have enough to get by idling, but not enough gas under load.

....just thinking out loud.....

Yeah, I suspected that and even the fuel filter (less than 2 years old & 5K miles) but after I assembled the carbs back together, the bowls filled up really quick like in 2 on/off cycles and fired up with little choke. On the center stand it runs really strong, even in first/second gear and also revs. The "stuck in high gear" possibility seems to fit the symptoms but I will replace the fuel filter just to be sure.

 

[KJShover]

I'm just sat down and started reading some of the symptoms of the problem. It sounds like trying to take off in to high a gear. could the transmission be stuck in 4th or 5th gear. Just a thought.

Good call, that makes a lot of sense. If the shift segment is broken and you only have 4th and 5th. that would give you those symptoms.

 

[naughtyG]

The "stuck in high gear" possibility seems to fit the symptoms but I will replace the fuel filter just to be sure.

Really simple: is your neutral (green) light on the tach dash? If it is you should be in neutral, if it isn't you could be stuck in high gear, but then I do not believe you could start the bike without pulling the clutch lever.

Have you tried finding/bypassing all three safety switches - kickstand/clutch lever/neutral?

 

[jfeagins]

Would being WAY OUT OF SYNCH on the new carb job cause..........na never mind....it might cause poor, poor launch, and require lots more throttle to leave a stand still, but shouldn't cause dying.

....still just thinking out loud here....

I agree, being stuck in a higher gear might cause this, but that should be easy to check, if the neutral light works, then down one should produce a 1st gear engagement - correct me if I'm wrong on that (transmission guys) when/if a shift segment is broken.

 

[KJShover]

correct me if I'm wrong on that (transmission guys) when/if a shift segment is broken.

It all depends on what pin is broke. On my venture I was good to 3rd, then no 4th or 5th.
I agree, if he can get it into first. It should launch.

 

[Fire-medic]

Shouldn't you be able to turn the engine over by hand & count the revolutions of the rear wheel when up on the centrestand (UK spelling) to determine if it's in 1st or 5th?

Sorry I don't have anything to add about the causes. You would think that revving freely w/the bike stationary should result in some ability to move.

OK, here's one, probably a far-out-there reason, could a piece of a broken tooth have jammed in the drivetrain somewhere, preventing the transmission of power? Maybe in the clutch primary drive gear?