Promptly After Disengaging Clutch the bike dies

[sdt354]

Put her on the centerstand. With the engine off, shift through all the gears. Spin the tire as you do this. Find neutral first.

 

[Rhoy Carter]

I think I would pull the carbs and make sure everything is right in them, since you just rebuilt them. Carbs should fill in 4 cycles not 2 when they atr empty,

 

[RaWarrior]

Bike runs and revs really strong but when I put it in 1st or 2nd gear and try to take off, it dies like it is in a very high gear.
How can I confirm this or better yet fix this? :ummm:

Here's one thing to try....run it with the choke on and see if the problem gets better/ it has more power.

A too-lean condition will give the symptoms you're describing. Will rev fine all day long in neutral, but it has absolutely no power behind it, so it instantly bogs out under load. This is very common on outboards that will run good in neutral but then crap out when put in gear (partially plugged pilots or mains). It doesn't recover because as the RPMs fall so does vacuum, at which point it's not drawing enough fuel from the carbs to even fire, so once it "bogs", it might stumble for a second or two but always ultimately die.

 

[TurcoLoco]

To answer the questions about the gears/neutral possibility; the green lights did come up and I could go one down and get in the first gear with ease. I always start the bike in neutral (with the green light on) then go in the gear so if that means it was not stuck in high gear then it is a relief.

Bowl seemed to have fill up in 2 cycles or may be it was 3, I am not 100% but I could hear them fill up and the bike started up fine so I guess that possess no problems.

The bike had stage 1 jet kit in it from the original owner and as I was rebuilding the carbs, I did clean each and every piece carefully and thoroughly. If it is running lean then either the fuel filter is restricting the flow or the pump but if that was the cause then I didn't think the bowls would get filled up so easily, am I wrong?

I will try the full choke tip again when I get home but I am quite sure I already have tried taking off in first gear with choke fully close, 1/4 open and 1/2 open with no luck. I will try fully open just to see.

Thanks for all the input guys. I love the bike and would love to be able to ride it again as the weather gets better.
I will update the thread after I try the tips this evening.
unk:

 

[RaWarrior]

A plugged fuel filter would cause problems at high throttle positions. Even if the fuel flow was stopped entirely, the bike should still run fine for a good 30sec-min as it ran off what's left in the bowls, so I don't think that's your immediate problem.

From dry bowls it's normal to take maybe "1.5" cycles until the pump stops on it's own. As in once it runs until the relay cuts it off, then turn the key again and it runs for another cpl seconds, slows, and stops on it's own. Once the bowls are filled, you should get only 1 or 2 clicks (or none) unless the bike has been sitting for a while.

 

[TurcoLoco]

OK, double-checked on the gears and yes, it goes into all gears, green light comes on, etc. Also as I rev the the rear tire spins faster and faster even as I gear up. More I open the choke the faster it revved and the tire span so I guess that is normal? At higher gears, the throttle response seemed to drop, like not enough fuel coming through so I do believe filter is an issue which I aim to replace in the next couple of days for sure.

I did turn the idle mixture screws out like 3-4 turns so I know it wouldn't be running lean because of that adjustment. Filter is the only variable I could think of too. I am still under the weather so I will probably have to wait another day or so to check the fluid in the clutch and possibly try bleeding it for possible air.

If anyone has any other ideas or suggestion that I can check, please throw 'em my way.
Thank you all again!

 

[alorio1]

I would check to see if all four cylinders are actually firing. I would start the bike cold and immediately and lightly touch the exhaust pipes to see if they are getting hot (unless you have a infrared heat gun). If all pipes are hot check carb sync. The air box boots must be correcly seated on carbs and clamps tight, sometimes you think you have all four boots in place and the one that is leaking will cause that carb slide not to respond to throttle position, thus severe loss of power when you accelerate. Also have the Y that sits on top of breather box in place for the carb slides to respond as they should. If the engine is running properly and all interlock switches are working the bike should move without no problem, but the engine has to be making enough power to move the bike. If you are using Mobil one full synthetic your clutch is slipping and will always slip until you bead blast the metal plates and change the friction plates out, but a slipping clutch has nothing to do with you not being able to launch the bike and ride.

 

[TurcoLoco]

I would check to see if all four cylinders are actually firing. I would start the bike cold and immediately and lightly touch the exhaust pipes to see if they are getting hot (unless you have a infrared heat gun). If all pipes are hot check carb sync.

Thanks Joe, I do have a heat gun but I usually keep it in the gear to use it on the girls I meet! :biglaugh: On a more serious note, yes all pipe got equally and noticeably hot so I know all pistons are firing. I did the sync several months back and I will do it again but I thought I had to get the idle mixture settings correct first which I was not sure if they were or not. I did rebuilt the carbs and replace the seals/gaskets, rest of the parts looked good so I just cleaned them thoroughly so all jets, passages etc. were totally clean.
One thing I neglected was the float adjustment. I figured since I kept each carbs parts in separate containers and they were correctly adjusted before, I didn't need to mess with that (besides this is one thing I didn't know how to do). I am checking the posts on this site about setting the floats on dry carbs. That may not be the cause but I want to make sure everything that I worked on is in good working condition and properly adjusted so I don't have to worry about them.
I just took the carbs out again so I will re-examine them to see if some gunk or dirt came through the tank even though I had SeaFoam in it. I will check the fuel filter as well and if I cannot get good enough air through it, I will replace it as well.

The air box boots must be correcly seated on carbs and clamps tight, sometimes you think you have all four boots in place and the one that is leaking will cause that carb slide not to respond to throttle position, thus severe loss of power when you accelerate. Also have the Y that sits on top of breather box in place for the carb slides to respond as they should. If the engine is running properly and all interlock switches are working the bike should move without no problem, but the engine has to be making enough power to move the bike.

Yes, all rubber mounts/seals were properly and tightly in place. That is one thing I have always been aware of (air leak) and the mounts are in good shape and I did tighten then all the way, the mounts were flush and flat. Again the bike didn't run and idle like it did now so I know there was no air leak and fuel was coming through fine. That Y piece in the airbox was in place indeed. What is the interlock switch? Is this like the clutch or neutral switch the others mentioned? I did check the kickstand and clutch switch but as I expected they were fine and I don't think the bike would run in gear on the center stand if a kill-switch was the cause, am I wrong?

If you are using Mobil one full synthetic your clutch is slipping and will always slip until you bead blast the metal plates and change the friction plates out, but a slipping clutch has nothing to do with you not being able to launch the bike and ride.

I used different brand and types before and full synthetic 20/50 M1 for V-Twins seemed to be the best but you are saying this particular oil causes clutch slipping? If all else checked out (and for the most part it did), do you think a faulty clutch would cause this odd issue?
Would the clutch go from OK to bad just by the bike sitting in the garage for a month or so?
:ummm:

Anyhow, thank you as well for chipping in! =)

 

[alorio1]

Interlocks are all those that were previously mentioned. All I'm saying is I put Mobil 1 (automotive oil) in my bike many years ago when it first came out and my clutch started slipping within 20 miles of riding and the bike had 4K on her. M1 for motorcycles is fine and your clutch is probably OK as well. Even if the clutch were slipping that is not the problem.

 

[naughtyG]

Checking your floats level is actually really easy with the carbs on the bike - you simply warm the motor up, have the bike on the center stand, put a jack under the motor and adjust so that the carbs rack is perfectly level (use a spirit level if you have one), then attach a piece of clear tubing to one of the float bowl drain hoses, open the drain screw and hold the clear hose up against the side of the slide housing. There's an horizontal marking bang in the center of the side of the housing, and the fuel level in the clear pipe should be 16mm +-1 below the marks. It's easiest to draw two lines 16mm apart on the clear hose and hold the top line against the marking to check fuel level.

If it's 15mm or above, you need to bend the float tab open a tiny bit, if it's 17mm or lower, bend the tab a bit more close to raise the fuel level.

This is the correct way to check the float levels (check each in turn), the dry way on the bench is meant to get them 'close'. However, after a 'wet' check, if they need adjusting you still need to get the carbs off to get to the floats..

But, after all this, while it's true that your floats must be adjusted properly for your bike not to run too lean or rich, I can't see this being your problem. I think it's more likely something else is amiss in your freshly rebuilt carbs - maybe you swapped pilot jets by mistake, left something out or put something in the wrong place, or maybe something is rubbing, not free to move correctly etc?

Take a good look while you're in there, and good luck!

 

[TurcoLoco]

Checking your floats level is actually really easy with the carbs on the bike - you simply warm the motor up, have the bike on the center stand, put a jack under the motor and adjust so that the carbs rack is perfectly level (use a spirit level if you have one), then attach a piece of clear tubing to one of the float bowl drain hoses, open the drain screw and hold the clear hose up against the side of the slide housing. There's an horizontal marking bang in the center of the side of the housing, and the fuel level in the clear pipe should be 16mm +-1 below the marks. It's easiest to draw two lines 16mm apart on the clear hose and hold the top line against the marking to check fuel level.

If it's 15mm or above, you need to bend the float tab open a tiny bit, if it's 17mm or lower, bend the tab a bit more close to raise the fuel level.

This is the correct way to check the float levels (check each in turn), the dry way on the bench is meant to get them 'close'. However, after a 'wet' check, if they need adjusting you still need to get the carbs off to get to the floats..

But, after all this, while it's true that your floats must be adjusted properly for your bike not to run too lean or rich, I can't see this being your problem. I think it's more likely something else is amiss in your freshly rebuilt carbs - maybe you swapped pilot jets by mistake, left something out or put something in the wrong place, or maybe something is rubbing, not free to move correctly etc?

Take a good look while you're in there, and good luck!

Will do! Since the carbs are already off the bike. I will do the dry adjustment to get to close enough to eliminate the floats as a possibility at least.
Looking at the cup that I used to collect the fuel that came out of the bowl, I can tell the fuel was clean and free of gunk but I will be taking a closer look at the internals regardless. If everything checks out then I am back to square one but hopefully I will nail the culprit by then.

Naughty, your avatar is very distracting. It took me a while to focus on what your typed! :biglaugh:

Thank you all again. I will keep you posted. If I cannot figure it out, I will put the bike in neutral and get on it before rolling off a high cliff.

 

[jwood]

Pump your clutch lever 7 to 10 times and give it another shot...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[TurcoLoco]

Pump your clutch lever 7 to 10 times and give it another shot...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

OK, I just got done re-assembling the bike but after all the following things I have done, still no cigar!

I did my best but whatever the issue is, it is over whatever mechanical skill I currently have.


1. I bled the clutch fluid (it was kinda dirty) using MityVac for a good 30 minutes refilled 3 times and using Teflon tape around the bleed screw to minimize/prevent it from sucking air back in. I flushed all the bad fluid out and the air as well. Since it is clutch, there is no firmness to check against but the gears seem to change quite smoothly.


2. Cleaned all the carbs again. Replaced main jets with the new correct ones Sean sent. The bike starts with almost no choke and quickly and smoothly idles. Fresh gas in the tank, I even put half a can of SeaFoam. It is idling and running smoother than before for sure.



3. Took out the spark plugs, kinda dirty but not much, cleaned them all since they were relatively new anyhow.



4. Checked fuel pump and filter before connecting the carbs, ample amount of fuel coming out, the carbs filled up after about 3 on/off cycles.


5. Initially very little smoke came out from the pipes but for a few seconds, also there was some random popping but after adjusting the idle mixture screws they went away.


I put it in gear and try to go, it goes a little but then chokes and dies. If I give a lot of gas, it does eventually catch up and ride off but barely and really weak. I can change gears and it continue to run but there is no power, almost like the bike is taking of and moving in a gear or two too high then what it should be in. I know the clutch and the gears appear to work, I can find the neutral, etc. but the bike has no cojones even after it eventually gets moving!

I am stumped and depressed. I am about to cry like a little girl.
:confused2:

 

[a113ycat]

I know this is a stretch but after reading all the posts I havent seen it mentioned. So Ill mention it.
A buddy of mine had a very similar issue with his bike and after he went through all the necessary repairs and got the fuel system and fluid issues straight his bike still had no launch. We went through a number of checks and what we ended up finding was bad clutch spring allowing the clutch to slip under load thus no go with bawls. But with the rear wheel off the ground and no other load on the engine than the tire and drive it would act normal. I am not sure if this is you problem or if you have already checked this and I missed it in the posts. Im just tossing it out there...

 

[jwood]

Could be the EMERGENCY BRAKE is on? :ignore:

 

[Rhoy Carter]

There should be someone in your area that would be willing to swap out electronic parts with to rule out the electronics. This almost sounds like a car with a potato stuffed up the exhaust.

 

[TurcoLoco]

I know this is a stretch but after reading all the posts I havent seen it mentioned. So Ill mention it.
A buddy of mine had a very similar issue with his bike and after he went through all the necessary repairs and got the fuel system and fluid issues straight his bike still had no launch. We went through a number of checks and what we ended up finding was bad clutch spring allowing the clutch to slip under load thus no go with bawls. But with the rear wheel off the ground and no other load on the engine than the tire and drive it would act normal. I am not sure if this is you problem or if you have already checked this and I missed it in the posts. Im just tossing it out there...

Holly cow, yes, that sounds like it man and probably it the culprit. On the center stand, it runs and speeds up and everything on ground with my fat behind on it, it feel like it has half a horse power, even with a lot of gas, it barely moves.

I wonder if this is something I can tackle? Is this an adjustment thing or will the spring need to be replaced more than likely?

Thanks for the tip! :clapping:

Could be the EMERGENCY BRAKE is on? :ignore:

I don't think mine came with one. Was it an available option for 06 model? :rofl_200:

 

[TurcoLoco]

There should be someone in your area that would be willing to swap out electronic parts with to rule out the electronics. This almost sounds like a car with a potato stuffed up the exhaust.

Would they cause the symptoms I am having?

What Alleycat mentioned sounded a lot like what I am experiencing though.

 

[a113ycat]

Would they cause the symptoms I am having?

What Alleycat mentioned sounded a lot like what I am experiencing though.

This is a link to a free download complete service manual.

http://vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/VMX12-Service-Manual.pdf

If you need the real thing I think I may have a couple in stock but the online PDF should help you with all you need. The clutch inspection and repair help starts on page 157 or section 3.33

Replacing the springs with some that are a little stouter may be all you need at this point.

 

[TurcoLoco]

Thanks Alley. I actually have that manual on PDF and a printed copy too.
I wasn't sure if it was like adjusting valves where no parts would be needed or if it would require me to buy some parts or not.

I will take a close look at the manual. Is there any way to tell if that was the culprit before buying the parts and doing all the work?