Reasons to remove the clutch?

[user 80997]

Greetings guys, Having just bought a low mileage Gen1 (97) as a non-runner I am doing some detective work to discover exactly why it doesn't run.
The seller (a dealer) bought it from a guy who had removed the clutch, complete with basket, and then had a heart attack so it was never reassembled. No other explanation is available now so I hope the guy is ok.
Looking under the empty clutch cover, I can't see any worn or broken parts - the plates are all within spec and it all looks good to go and I am a bit puzzled so before I reassemble everything, can anyone think of a reason to dismantle it in the first place?
Any suggestions will be gratefully received.

 

[MaxMidnight]

No idea why it would warrant a full dismantle unless the basket is notched or has burrs.
You say the friction plates are within spec but if my experience is in any way typical then they will star to slip towards the lower end of the wear limit.

Whilst any guess may well be correct it is only that. Best bet would be to try and make contact with the original owner.

 

[user 80997]

Best bet would be to try and make contact with the original owner.

That was my first thought but unfortunately my seller was not in contact with him any more

 

[MaxMidnight]

Then it's down to the Ouija board or put it all back together and see what transpires.

 

[user 80997]

Just a thought - isn't the shift selector an issue on pre-1998 engines? I wonder if he was trying to fix a clunky gearchange
I might get the updated shift segment and bung it in just in case.

 

[Stephan]

I would replace the friction plates at least because MM is right (as usual!) the clutches do tend to slip with wear. I rode a friend's Vmax with clutch slip and it was hilarious in a way because you would open the throttle, the clutch would slip so the engine revs higher, the vboost valves open and the clutch slips more - what fun!

 

[maleko89]

Agree with all the above. The only other time you would need to remove the clutch boss or further is if damage to those components or the engine halves needed to be separated.

 

[Fire-medic]

Put it back together and see what is going on, or isn't going on which should be. I would say that any 'dealer' I know of, would reassemble the bike and get it operational to maximize profit. I hope you bought this basket case for next to nothing, because in my view a basket case is worth more in parts than what it would sell-for as a 'non-runner' with the hope that it could become operational.

I wouldn't bother replacing the friction discs and 'steelies' before you have it operational, if as you claim they're in-spec. I'm assuming you will be using a new clutch cover gasket. If you put it back-together, and get it running, you will find out if it had a bad second gear, or that the clutch slips, or any other work which needs to be done. You probably don't have any idea of how-long it's been sitting, Drain the carbs individually, see what comes-out. Visualize the gas tank interior. If it's rusty, and not shiny clean inside, that's a job you need to do to get it operational and reliably so. The carbs will be 'knackered' from rust particles if the gas tank is rusty. There are plenty of threads on here about cleaning the carburetors and the gas tank. For the gas tank only I suggest cleaning vinegar, 6% works well, and it's easy to dispose of. It can be re-used as well for cleaning other steel or anything iron, just do-not use vinegar on anything potmetal like the gas sending unit inside the gas tank or the carburetors. Replace the sending unit with a blank-off plate, or immerse the entire gas tank in a vat of vinegar, sending unit removed. Electrolysis also works but you need to be very careful doing it.

If the engine needs a second gear replacement, and you cannot do that yourself, that's a $2000 parts and labor job here in the USA. You may decide to buy something not needing that expenditure, if you cannot fix it yourself. What good is the expense of a new clutch if second gear is bad, and you don't want to spend the $ on it?

Say that you get it together, and running, and you find the clutch slips, it's easy to remove the clutch cover with a new gasket on it, which has not been baked on there from a couple hundred heat/cool cycles. I suggest using a thin coat of water-soluble jel, like KY, on the two metal surfaces of the clutch cover & engine case, it helps hold the gasket in-place for reassembly and it helps the gasket to not tear when you need to remove the cover if indeed the clutch is slipping.

Tell us how things are going.

 

[one2dmax]

Could be the gear segment issue. Could be he put a clutch in and couldn't get the reassembly correct (there is orientation requirements) and then took it back apart and didn't get it finished.

 

[user 80997]

Wow, some great advice there guys and some really good logic too. So I now have a plan, thanks to you - I will have a detailed look at all of the components when I get the bike on my lift (just waiting for some final bits for my V-Rod to arrive) and unless I find something dodgy I will bung it all together and see what happens. Worse case scenario, I will end up breaking the bike or finding a good engine if the price is right. With any luck it will just need new plates and maybe a bit of adjustment ......... we will see.
Rest assured I will report back with the news either way

 

[CaptainKyle]

Wow, some great advice there guys and some really good logic too. So I now have a plan, thanks to you - I will have a detailed look at all of the components when I get the bike on my lift (just waiting for some final bits for my V-Rod to arrive) and unless I find something dodgy I will bung it all together and see what happens. Worse case scenario, I will end up breaking the bike or finding a good engine if the price is right. With any luck it will just need new plates and maybe a bit of adjustment ......... we will see.
Rest assured I will report back with the news either way

I have a clutch video on YouTube sorry it's reversed image but it may help.https://youtu.be/OE3TKMvOtT8?si=i6l-p1On0mB4AjYf

 

[Yvonne Blaz]

There are way too many reasons for someone to think they need to remove their clutch for me to guess as to why any other person other than myself to remove the clutch or any other part of their motorcycle . I won't waste time to guess , but it could be as simple as changing motor oil . My clutch slipped as soon as I changed to synthetic motor oil , and began acting normal as soon as switched back to non-synthetic . I was pleased to read that others on this forum have experianced the same problem . I also want to mention that my front & rear brakes were like squeezed bananas but returned to normal when switching back to regular DOT 3 brake fluid . My point is , listening to everyone's poinion is not always better than the good old reliable factory specifications Time and money I'll never get back in my life cycle when I could have been out riding my V MAX duh !

 

[Jack Hammer]

My two cents. Because the previous owner pulled the clutch then why did he do that in the first place? Clutch problems are not difficult to figure out. If the basket is still good, I'd get new friction discs and steelies and everything else needed after inspection of all parts. Then put it back together. I'd hate to do the same thing twice. Once the bike rides, take it out and see what is going on. At least you have a new clutch.

The previous owner might have pulled the clutch out because of a knocking sound that they do when the pilot bearing is worn out. Sounds like a bad conrods bearing. Easiest way to know is to pull the clutch lever in at idle and if the knocking sound disappeared, your clutch pilot bearing is going out.

 

[MaxMidnight]

...I'd get new friction discs and steelies and everything else needed after inspection of all parts.

Whilst I agree that doing a job twice isn't good practice the clutch is one job that is relatively easy to do.

Assuming the steels are flat and don't show signs of bluing and the frictions are well within their wear limit I'd risk putting it back together. That would save over £200. If there are still issues then at least you would know what they are and only buy the parts you need.

 

[user 80997]

Whilst I agree that doing a job twice isn't good practice the clutch is one job that is relatively easy to do.

Assuming the steels are flat and don't show signs of bluing and the frictions are well within their wear limit I'd risk putting it back together. That would save over £200. If there are still issues then at least you would know what they are and only buy the parts you need.

That's my plan - the steels all look good & not warped, the friction plates are all well within spec (3.2mm) so I don't see any sense in buying new ones.

 

[Fire-medic]

I stated my opinion already and it's something we all agree upon: the O.P., MM and me. Put time/$ into seeing it run so you can decide if any operational issues turn it into a parts bike.

 

[user 80997]

I have now had a closer look at the clutch parts (which were loose in a box) and everything seems to be in very good condition. The friction plates are well within wear limits and the steels are flat and not burnt so I can start the reassembly.
Don't you just hate it when you have something left over?? I have one part which is a mystery and I can't see where it goes - it might even be a random bit from somewhere else but it was in the box of clutch bits.
Does anyone recognise the wire spring thing (next to the clutch thrust pin) in this pic? It looks kinda important to me

 

[user 80997]

Next question guys I put the clutch basket on the shaft, making sure to engage the plastic idler cogs behind it, then put the thrust washer (bottom part in the pic) over the splines. My question is - Is it supposed to 'drop' behind the splines and float between the basket and the boss? The boss is then secured with a tab washer and nut which is torqued to spec.

 

[maleko89]

The wire goes into flywheel side.

Yes the washer floats.

 

[user 80997]

The wire goes into flywheel side.

Yes the washer floats.

Thanks bud - looks like the previous owner must have had the flywheel side off then - I will investigate