Stages of Life

[KJShover]

IMHO, All the perfomance mods one can do are worthless without Comfort(unless your riding 1/4 mile at a time) the stock seat seems to be one of if not the first thing to go.

LOL, love it. And the shameless plug award goes to...." :rofl_200:

Every one is gonna have things they do first & some think are more important than others. In the end its the persons bike & as long as they like it do stages really Matter ?

Nope stages don't matter. They are just a comprehensive list of modifications. Everyone is going to have a difference of opinion on what they did first. Mine was a bellypan, supertrapps and a nitrous system where my first three mods.

The list is just informative and hopefully will be non-biased and orderly. It is just a list and classifications, not a competition. There are purests out there that own stockers that you can eat off of. They made a choice to maintian a factory look/performance, and that is double tough. To me they are in a class all of thier own.

As I said, it's all open for discussion. We can run several categories, Stage of engine based on expected hp output, handling mods based on expected improvement and cosmetic mods from mild to wild... We could even have a category for comfort mods... It's gonna take a lot of help to get this all put together but, we'll have something that's never been done... Great starting points have been given already for some of this. KJ, This was a Really Cool Idea.... People could have several different Stages in different categories..


Once we have this completed, we can make up a thread like the parts compatability list and keep the up to date info in the first post of the thread for easy access and have it stickied in an appropriate forum heading..

Exactly, it would be no issue to ad a catagory for Comfort = C and Electrical = Elec

Pretty cool idea you have here KJ. I would recommend you creat a "master" list here that everyone can contribute to...should be a very long list. Once list is completed, then catorgorize this probably rather long list into the stages...then look for agreement/feedback. In the stages, possibly list cost/approx mod time/gains/degree of mod difficulty/if applicable, link to mods, etc.. Really could be a large list but as you or someone mentioned, what a benefit to the folks "tuning".

Great idea.

I think once the list is created and the mods ranking should be the next thing to look at. I think the $ amount should have nothing to do with the ranking.
If your running a $5k supercharger/turbo, a $1200 nitrous kit just leveled the playing field. Thus to equalize the power adders, they will all recieve the same number due to performance and not the cost.

Brakes would be another touchy issue. Some people swear by high dollar name brand, but there has been a less expensive, good looking brake parts that perform just as well. Again these parts would have the $ ignored and be numbered the same.

This would include the store bought electrics vs the home made T-boost, Fan switches, Gauges(ok they're not home made, but not everyone runs Autometer when there are just as good but lest costly guages out there), and other electrical things that are being done.

The only thing I can't think of a way to assign a number would be the in-house stuff. Some are one off parts, others are owner versions of whats out there.

Another way to compile the list in better time is to post it here, then as people add on to it; just reply with the quote, and in a different color input your mods into the list.

 

[KJShover]

Just a few to start off and suggestions of where they go. Please feel free to add and alter.

Mod list;

Electrical

Crimp fix
R/R
Accent lighting
Tim's bright gauge, colored light mod
HID
Headlight lighting mods (different bulb, double relay mod, etc..)
Turn signals
Tail light/brake light
horn (aftermarket)
horn relay mod
remote start
Tboost/zboost/Sassy
Ignition
Thermostat
Fan switch
Shift light
Tachometer
Alternate Gauges (temp, volt, oil pressure, etc.)



Engine

Full exhaust system
slip-ons
modified stock exhaust
Jet kit
Flat slide carburators (Vgas, PCW, etc.)
Other carbs (webber, 2/4 bbl holleys, etc)
EFI
Turbo
Supercharger
Nitrous
Functional scoops/Intake
Aftermarket pistons
Rods
Crank
Cams
Headwork (milling, port/polish, valvetrain. could be broken up to reflect the various head mods.)
Transmisson (undercutting, overdrive, shift assisted)
Reverse shift pattern
Mechanical V-boost levers
Clutch mods (Auto Clutch, Barnett, DD, etc..)
Chain drive

Chassis

Braced swingarm
Frame braces
Solid motor mount
Gusset welding
Fork brace
USD front
Brakes (points can be broken down for SS lines, Rotors, Calipers)
Aftermarket Master Cyls.
Steering Damper
Front springs
Rear springs
Mono shock
Extended swingarms
Braced Swingarms
Notched Swingarms (single, Double)
Tires



Comfort

Seat
Controls (rearset/forward)
grips
bars
Windshield/instument cowel/flyscreen
springs (can be used from the chassis, but can't be double dipped. Once you use, you can't add the points again in another area.)
backrest
stereo
intercom
Venture pumpkin

Looks (Put in to be thorough. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but here is some of the common appearance mods. I don't hink there should be much assigned here as far as points due to the subjectiveness of what looks good.)

Body work (can be broken down, belly pan, tail ...etc)
paint
Graphical wraps
lowering
wheels (can count as a performance mod too, being there are the light weight wheels out there.)
headlights (double, 7", projector, HID, double relay, etc.)

Gen II
To include the Gen II in all this mess, I figure all of the above, but add the big air intake and flashed ECU's.

 

[Rollie]

Ya'all know that freakin' monkey is rolling on the floor laughing !

 

[KJShover]

Ya'all know that freakin' monkey is rolling on the floor laughing !

The wierd thing is I don't remember typing any of this.
The other night I was playing with an ouija board trying to contact monkeys of the past to get a little old school on my bike. When I blacked out.

When I woke up, apparantly I wrote this and orderd a HID steup for my bike. I think I was possesed for a moment, by the spirit of mod monkey of old.

:th_skullsmilie::rip::th_skullsmilie:

 

[sarchin]

unk: It is really cool and really amazing what we can do with our VMaxxes!!!

 

[KJShover]

I'm at a blank.
Anyone have any ideas on how to assign a numerical value to the mods.
I was thinking on weighing each of the mods on a scale of 1-15.

 

[GREEN light BLITZ]

I'm at a blank.
Anyone have any ideas on how to assign a numerical value to the mods.
I was thinking on weighing each of the mods on a scale of 1-15.

Just as easy to do 1-5 or really simplify it and make each mod 1 point...so let's say I have new forks and pipes and that's all. Therefore I have a 2 point bike.
1-5 allows for a more diverce scoring though depending on how far people wanna take it.

 

[KJShover]

Just as easy to do 1-5 or really simplify it and make each mod 1 point...so let's say I have new forks and pipes and that's all. Therefore I have a 2 point bike.
1-5 allows for a more diverce scoring though depending on how far people wanna take it.

I was thinking the reason behind the broader range is to separate the parts, to put more separation between the mods. Using 1-5, Some will be a little too close. Full carb kit = 5, aftermarket needles = 4, shimmed needles = 3, Modified airbox = 2, K&N = 1, stock = 0.

Shimmed needles are IMO less than a full kit, by what seems to be more than 2pts. Doupleing the scale to 1-10 would net a full kit a 10 and the shimming a 5 or a 6. This way when you look at the number, you can see where it sits on the performance scale.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

You need to add chain drive to your list of mods there KJ. Geez, want to know a mod just ask me I have done them all!!!! Mine is so far off the charts I don't even remember what it looked like stock LOL.

 

[KJShover]

You need to add chain drive to your list of mods there KJ. Geez, want to know a mod just ask me I have done them all!!!! Mine is so far off the charts I don't even remember what it looked like stock LOL.

lol,
Added. I was kinda hoping more people would have added more mods.
Do the quote, and make thier addition. This way the last list would be the most current.

 

[ninjaneer]

I was thinking the reason behind the broader range is to separate the parts, to put more separation between the mods. Using 1-5, Some will be a little too close. Full carb kit = 5, aftermarket needles = 4, shimmed needles = 3, Modified airbox = 2, K&N = 1, stock = 0.

Shimmed needles are IMO less than a full kit, by what seems to be more than 2pts. Doupleing the scale to 1-10 would net a full kit a 10 and the shimming a 5 or a 6. This way when you look at the number, you can see where it sits on the performance scale.

Along those lines, how 'bout something like this for front suspension:
0=stock
1=external lowering (drop trees)
2=internal lowering
3=oil
4=aftermarket springs
5=cartridge emulators
6=USDs

 

[Blurr]

When I woke up, apparantly I wrote this and orderd a HID steup for my bike. I think I was possesed for a moment, by the spirit of mod monkey of old.

:th_skullsmilie::rip::th_skullsmilie:

You ordered a HID set up to cover the few hours it's dark during the three week period between summer and snowfall?
:clapping:

 

[KJShover]

You ordered a HID set up to cover the few hours it's dark during the three week period between summer and snowfall?
:clapping:

Nahh, people have been running over bikes right and left up here lately. I ordered it mainly for visibility.

 

[KJShover]

Along those lines, how 'bout something like this for front suspension:
0=stock
1=external lowering (drop trees)
2=internal lowering
3=oil
4=aftermarket springs
5=cartridge emulators
6=USDs

Works for me. :clapping:

 

[Blurr]

Nahh, people have been running over bikes right and left up here lately. I ordered it mainly for visibility.

Got that right. Last month I watched a car punt a poor girl off her bike in the parking lot of Fred myers here in soldotna.

About the list, i'd think cosmetics being a subjective thing, I doubt anything short of a vote would meet with success as a way of ratings. Also, are we determining the rating based on degree of difficulty of the install or power returned, or expected ET improvement?

I know for my self I've been daydreaming of BST wheels. To do that, I'd need to convert to chain drive and new swing arm. That gives me an 18in x 5.5 rear with dramatically reduced unsprung weight at both ends and sets me up whith a really solid foundation for any further mods. Pretty intensive as far as it goes but I get the feeling on a points scale i'd come in behind someone doing less radical mods(but more of them) and getting less overall improvement to their bike's performance.

Maybe each stage (intake, exhaust, internals, etc) should get a two part score based on difficulty of install and improvement over stock? In an attempt to keep the scoring somewhat reasonable I'd say the difficulty score should only 1-3. 1 would be hand tools and an afternoon. Exhaust, handlebars, turn signals etc. 2 would be specialized tools more time intinsive. Clutch, swingarm, usd forks, etc. 3 would be reserved for pretty extreme stuff like blowers and big bore kits. Work that involves machine shops and negotiations that involve the firstborn kinda stuff.

In the final analysis a two part score might prove too unwieldily for convince sake but its a thought.

 

[KJShover]

Got that right. Last month I watched a car punt a poor girl off her bike in the parking lot of Fred myers here in soldotna.

The way people drive cracks me up, Its like they just close thier eyes and try to channel the force. What really gets me is when people come out the the villages. They tend to take thier "walk out in front of everything" and thier driving habits with them.

About the list, i'd think cosmetics being a subjective thing, I doubt anything short of a vote would meet with success as a way of ratings. Also, are we determining the rating based on degree of difficulty of the install or power returned, or expected ET improvement?

I'm thinking, being cosmetics are seriously subjective, that all cosmetic upgrades be a like number. As for the determination, I think the performance (with the exception of electrical and cosmetics) would be the one to focus on. I'm thinking this way cause as far as difficulty installing; some people can install quit with reletively no difficulty, while others will take a coupld of hours to do a 30 min mod and as far as ET, not everyone is in to drag racing, some are out there like the raw performance and others like to tour with thier bike. To me that just leaves the performance of the mods be thier numeric identifier. This way, weather you like the corners, straights, highway mileage or just old school boulevard pounding this list will accomodate the rider.

I know for my self I've been daydreaming of BST wheels. To do that, I'd need to convert to chain drive and new swing arm. That gives me an 18in x 5.5 rear with dramatically reduced unsprung weight at both ends and sets me up whith a really solid foundation for any further mods. Pretty intensive as far as it goes but I get the feeling on a points scale i'd come in behind someone doing less radical mods(but more of them) and getting less overall improvement to their bike's performance.

This is one reason why I think the scale should be larger. To keep things balanced and in perspective. The aftermarket wheel would be the same as any other, but there would be a difference between a chain conversion and a swingarm mod (notched, stretched). This is also why I think performance factor is standing out. It dosn't have to mean, 1/4 mile or a super top end. If you change a few teeth in the sprocket and you have yourself a lower RPM, highway cruising Vmax.

Maybe each stage (intake, exhaust, internals, etc) should get a two part score based on difficulty of install and improvement over stock? In an attempt to keep the scoring somewhat reasonable I'd say the difficulty score should only 1-3. 1 would be hand tools and an afternoon. Exhaust, handlebars, turn signals etc. 2 would be specialized tools more time intinsive. Clutch, swingarm, usd forks, etc. 3 would be reserved for pretty extreme stuff like blowers and big bore kits. Work that involves machine shops and negotiations that involve the firstborn kinda stuff.

I like this idea. But, again it brings up install difficulty. Thinking of a way to make things equal to inclued the hobby mechanics. But I agree, If a performance part requires some skills (or a trip to a specialist) it should be worth a little more.

In the final analysis a two part score might prove too unwieldily for convince sake but its a thought.

Maybe, maybe not. The main thing is to get the numbers assigned, get them broke down from there, and then polish everything up to move on to the ranges of the stages.

It's all just numbers, if a mod is broken down into specifics, to me, all that means is just more numbers, and a more accurate scale that can be adjusted and more and more mods get worked out and possibly broken down. So we have a nice list to start with, then the end product is a polished list of mods, borken down in stages for quick reference of amount of mods that has been done.

 

[ninjaneer]

I'm thinking, being cosmetics are seriously subjective, that all cosmetic upgrades be a like number. As for the determination, I think the performance (with the exception of electrical and cosmetics) would be the one to focus on.

Cosmetic mods are almost immeasurable now that I've thought about it over the past couple days--a mod of this magnitude is only limited by one's imagination and like it's been previously stated, it's totally subjective--one's chromed-out ride is another's waste of dough. Electrical mods, at least the majority of the ones that I've seen here in the forum, are sometimes out of necessity (e.g., anything to do with low voltages which reak havoc on performance like, oh i dunno--just pulling a terd outta my ass--misfires). So in these "necessary" cases are these "mods", or "fixes" that are along the maintenance line-of-thinking? you see where i'm getting? however, playing the devil's advocate, if a "mod" is like doing something to improve on a bike's numbers like more hp or ft/lbs, then couldn't an electrical mod like HID headlamp upgrade be a similar kind of "number" mod along the lines of improving visiblity numbers (e.g., feet, density, etc).

{EDIT} Also one could argue that a seat that's "lower" than stock provides a lower center of gravity and as a result improves handling--if an acceptable argument, than modifying the seat (hand-shaved OEM, or bolt-on aftermarket) is a performance mod rather than merely cosmetic.

I'm thinking this way cause as far as difficulty installing; some people can install quit with reletively no difficulty, while others will take a coupld of hours to do a 30 min mod and as far as ET, not everyone is in to drag racing, some are out there like the raw performance and others like to tour with thier bike.
To me that just leaves the performance of the mods be thier numeric identifier. This way, weather you like the corners, straights, highway mileage or just old school boulevard pounding this list will accomodate the rider.

I absolutely agree that some folks can do some mods faster than others--and this would have a direct relationship with experience. On further thinking, perhaps there could be a "performance gain to difficulty" ratio, where (to complicate matters more) difficulty is "handicapped" like what golfers do to even out the playing field.

 

[KJShover]

Electrical mods, at least the majority of the ones that I've seen here in the forum, are sometimes out of necessity (e.g., anything to do with low voltages which reak havoc on performance like, oh i dunno--just pulling a terd outta my ass--misfires). So in these "necessary" cases are these "mods", or "fixes" that are along the maintenance line-of-thinking?

I'm with you on that. I don't consider the crimp fix a mod. To me it's maint. But attaching a different R/R would be a mod.

however, playing the devil's advocate, if a "mod" is like doing something to improve on a bike's numbers like more hp or ft/lbs, then couldn't an electrical mod like HID headlamp upgrade be a similar kind of "number" mod along the lines of improving visiblity numbers (e.g., feet, density, etc).

I wouldn't consider a headlight bulb change a mod. But I would for a HID system, or a relay setup for the lights.

{EDIT} Also one could argue that a seat that's "lower" than stock provides a lower center of gravity and as a result improves handling--if an acceptable argument, than modifying the seat (hand-shaved OEM, or bolt-on aftermarket) is a performance mod rather than merely cosmetic.

Many parts are in like with the seat (wheels for example) and can fit in different catagories. If this happens it doesn't matter where the mod goes. However, you can only count it once. That would be kinda weak for a person to triple up on points by using thier new seat as performance, looks, comfort.

I absolutely agree that some folks can do some mods faster than others--and this would have a direct relationship with experience. On further thinking, perhaps there could be a "performance gain to difficulty" ratio, where (to complicate matters more) difficulty is "handicapped" like what golfers do to even out the playing field.

I was thinking about that, and trying to come up with something. There are great wrenches, beginner wrenches and those who take advantage of the shop wrench. Eventually I think it would be cool to have something to level the numbers. But I this this part should be back burnered until the numbers are in place and its time to polish.

 

[Blurr]

Well i'm willing to accept a generic difficulty lvl rating. I forget just who but I think chiltons lists their repairs by number of wrenches. Based of that I would think we could come up with a general idea of difficulty.

 

[ninjaneer]

... I forget just who but I think chiltons lists their repairs by number of wrenches. Based of that I would think we could come up with a general idea of difficulty.

o ya, i forgot about that, good call:clapping:. my haynes does that.