States Seccession From The Union.

[SpecOps13]

I've been hearing a lot about this in the past week.
This is the Official White House Site as far as I can determine.
The Petitions are Real and must be answered by BO if they reach
25,000 signatures in 30 days. Texas has already overcome that obstacle.
Click at the bottom of the page at the site to view the status of more states.

Hang On, this is gonna be a Wild Ride...

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

 

[ZackDaniels]

Obama should allow Texas to secede.

$148 billion income from Texas.
$226 billion federal aid received by Texas.

Thanks for the 25,000 signatures guys, it turns out they were a great deficit reduction plan. Good luck with that border security though.

:edit:
Real answer is it's all political posturing and nothing will change because once the actual ramifications are considered nobody will go through with it.

 

[tothemax93]

Obama should allow Texas to secede.

$148 billion income from Texas.
$226 billion federal aid received by Texas.

Thanks for the 25,000 signatures guys, it turns out they were a great deficit reduction plan. Good luck with that border security though.

I don't think Texas or Arizona for that matter, left on there own, would have any problems with border security.

 

[CaptainKyle]

I don't think Texas or Arizona for that matter, left on there own, would have any problems with border security.

No Shit ! I think the goverment is holding Texas & Arizona back on border security.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Obama should allow Texas to secede.

$148 billion income from Texas.
$226 billion federal aid received by Texas.

Thanks for the 25,000 signatures guys, it turns out they were a great deficit reduction plan. Good luck with that border security though.

:edit:
Real answer is it's all political posturing and nothing will change because once the actual ramifications are considered nobody will go through with it.

Texas had the right to secede since it originally became a state by treaty. (The same reason we have no federal land, unlike other states we didn't have to hand over untitled land to the federal govt. upon entry into the union)
It lost that right after the civil war. Moot point. Never gonna happen.

As for your numbers, yep, they're accurate.
Now ask yourself why?
We are overrun with cockroaches coming to a dirty kitchen which the Feds will not allow the state to clean.
Left to our own methods, that problem would not exist.

 

[ZackDaniels]

I dunno man, seems like a whole lot of miles of border to patrol without any US military. No air support, satellites, intelligence agencies of any significant resource, etc.

 

[headknocker]

So you don't think tx. and az. can control there own borders?? if the goverment would get out of the way the borders would already be under control I.M.H.O.

 

[ZackDaniels]

There's just a whole lot of miles of border. I think that would be pretty tough to handle without US military and intelligence efforts.

What are they going to do without an air force to speak of? Lock arms from end to end?

http://governor.state.tx.us/initiatives/border/

Border security is a federal responsibility but a Texas problem, and Texas has invested hundreds of millions of state dollars in efforts to support and supplement security forces already in place. Still, this is a problem that will only be solved with more federal accountability and involvement.

Gov Perry apparently thinks it can only get done with even more federal support.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Like getting rid of cock roaches, it takes minimal perimeter control when you get rid of the food and water sources. Make it a criminal felony to hire an illegal. Problem solved. E-verify is already in place, for some reason it's "voluntary"...why is it voluntary.

This country needs its immigrants, but we should control it and quite frankly should be cherry picking the very best, not allowing the worst of the worst to sneak across and stay. What other country allows this. How do you think Mexico handles their southern neighbor illegals?

Currently we are operating on a false economy based on cheap illegal labor. The statement that they are doing jobs that citizens won't do is based on the pay rate for those jobs, if the illegal labor wasn't undercutting labor rates the pay for those jobs would be high enough that citizens WOULD do them

Perry? Yes he said that and currently its true.... It goes a lot deeper than that statement....the Feds trying to tell states immigration is a federal law that states have limited ability to enforce, (Arizona ring a bell) yet the Feds won't enforce it themselves if it gets in the way of importing more known "base voters".....he's just trying to hold their feet to the fire. After all, they should be paying for it.

Funny to me that the Feds try to prevent states from getting involved in enforcing federal law on one hand concerning immigration, then when it comes to marijuana expect the states to enforce it.
It will be interesting to see where that goes with Washington's and Colorado's new laws and a pretty good test of states rights now that its transitioned from medical basis which the Feds have for the most part chosen not to address, to recreational, which is rubbing it in the Feds nose.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Here's an example of just one aspect of living in the midst of an influx of illegals.
Don't know if you can read Spanish but its telling them to quit throwing their shitty toilet paper in the trash can.
Doesn't matter how many years they've been here they just never seem to get it.

 

[SpecOps13]

Texas and Arizona are completely capable of stopping Illegal Immigration and reversing the ones who are already here. Our Federal Government,
both parties have blocked the way. Florida too could have the situation under control if it weren't for Jimmy Bob Carter. Wet Foot, Dry Foot....:bang head:

We should empty the prisons of Illegals in the middle of the Pacific but that would be bad for the fish.:ummm:

BTW: The Succession vote count is exploding by thousands of signatures in each states petition daily...

Florida gained nearly 10,000 yesterday, Texas went up over 30,000 in one day...

 

[srk468]

Rusty makes some excellent points, drywall used to pay really well till the illegals got involved, the same with painters.. Just sound the call for volunteers and recall the minutemen like AZ did years back, funny how effective a bunch of guys scouting with AR15's can be...

 

[ZackDaniels]

Like getting rid of cock roaches, it takes minimal perimeter control when you get rid of the food and water sources. Make it a criminal felony to hire an illegal. Problem solved. E-verify is already in place, for some reason it's "voluntary"...why is it voluntary.

This country needs its immigrants, but we should control it and quite frankly should be cherry picking the very best, not allowing the worst of the worst to sneak across and stay. What other country allows this. How do you think Mexico handles their southern neighbor illegals?

Currently we are operating on a false economy based on cheap illegal labor. The statement that they are doing jobs that citizens won't do is based on the pay rate for those jobs, if the illegal labor wasn't undercutting labor rates the pay for those jobs would be high enough that citizens WOULD do them

Perry? Yes he said that and currently its true.... It goes a lot deeper than that statement....the Feds trying to tell states immigration is a federal law that states have limited ability to enforce, (Arizona ring a bell) yet the Feds won't enforce it themselves if it gets in the way of importing more known "base voters".....he's just trying to hold their feet to the fire. After all, they should be paying for it.

Funny to me that the Feds try to prevent states from getting involved in enforcing federal law on one hand concerning immigration, then when it comes to marijuana expect the states to enforce it.
It will be interesting to see where that goes with Washington's and Colorado's new laws and a pretty good test of states rights now that its transitioned from medical basis which the Feds have for the most part chosen not to address, to recreational, which is rubbing it in the Feds nose.

I don't know a lot about this but from what I can gather e-verify is voluntary and excepted due to worries about cost of implementing and maintaining it implemented on the contractors. Which is really ironic because it seems those most concerned with cost will be the ones hiring illegal workers in the first place.

Agreed illegal immigration brings down the labor rates. Goes to help that stagnate wages per household over the last 50 years thing I mentioned.

Dude I think we agree on this. All I'm saying is the state would have a tough time doing things on its own, but I also highly doubt anything will come of these secession petitions and so that's sort of a dream scenario.

How do you feel the federal government is holding the states back from policing illegal immigration more effectively?

 

[MtnMax/Magniac]

How about the lawsuit the feds filed against AZ for trying to implement a state immigration law which very closely mirrors the US law, which the feds refuse to implement?

 

[Rollie]

Hey guys , there is hope on the petition request. Apparently Bo did grant , after 12 K requests / petitions , the release of his beer making formula . :rofl_200:

On a more serious note , didn't the Feds sue Arizona regarding their efforts to stop and identify illegals ? How's that for helping out ? ' It's the Feds responsibility , but they won't enforce the law , so they sue a state that attempts to enforce the law. I'm very surprised , once again.

One last thought. On the last immigration amnesty plan , didn't we agree to let about 3 Million stay on the promise that no more would be allowed in and we would protect the borders ? Again , why would we trust 500+ people to run this country ? It is the way it is , because that's how they want it to be .

I'm all for the states ( that want to ) secede , close their borders ( if they want to ) quit paying the feds and their bailouts , entitlements , and taxes ; collect their own $s , pay their own bills , and allow those who truly pay for this country ( 50 % ) move there . Let the moochers , parasites , illegals , etc. stay with the feds states.

Sorry , just DREAMIN' .

 

[ZackDaniels]

I thought AZ was blocked because their law would have allowed the stopping of anybody at any time and be able to jail them if they couldn't produce their immigration papers on the fly? That's ripe for abuse and it gives a precedent to all kinds of things that would otherwise be illegal searches.

I don't think any amnesty plan has gone into effect or been successfully passed yet.

:edit:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/u...f-arizona-immigration-law.html?pagewanted=all
Looks like the 'show me your papers' part stood up.
It blocked measures that would have subjected illegal immigrants to criminal penalties for activities like seeking work. Which I guess I can see - why waste time and effort putting them through the legal system? Deport them instead.

I'm not terribly educated on this topic though so perhaps there are some catch-22's with an instant deportation.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

The thing I for sure agree in is that secession is a pipe dream. Sure we have the natural resources for the most part. Even it its possible, could I imagine what throwing up an international border around texas would do to trade with a hostile and possibly punitive USA?

I've been hearing thus all my life here in Texas. Dumbest thing ever.

Specifically how does the fed hold states back from enforcing these? I don't know all the answers but one thing is that even if law enforcement identifies and holds illegals INS won't take them unless they're a hard core felon.

Fed dept. of justice filing lawsuits against local enforcement efforts.

Not making e verify mandatory, the states can't do it.

I do think we need to plug the holes on our border, make it illegal to hire them, make e verify mandatory ( the govt worried about layers of red tape as an excuse not to? That's laughable, they invented red tape)

And implement a true path to citizenship for those that are here now. Give a one year grace period to come in and register, and then crack the fuck down on those that aren't registered.

 

[ZackDaniels]

I'm all for the states ( that want to ) secede , close their borders ( if they want to ) quit paying the feds and their bailouts , entitlements , and taxes ; collect their own $s , pay their own bills , and allow those who truly pay for this country ( 50 % ) move there . Let the moochers , parasites , illegals , etc. stay with the feds states.

Sorry , just DREAMIN' .

20 states now have filed for secession. Here they are ordered by welfare caseload:

New York #2
Texas #3
Michigan #5
Tennessee #7
Indiana # 9
Georgia #10
Florida #11
Missouri #13
New Jersey #15
North Carolina #18
Kentucky #19
Louisiana #22
South Carolina #25
-------------- Due to territories there are 54 areas able to receive welfare. --------------
Mississippi #27
-------------- That makes Mississippi our proud 'middle of the road' at #27 --------------
Alabama #28
Oregon #29
Colorado #38
Arkansas #42
Montana #44
North Dakota #50


Again but as per capita

Tennessee #4
Indiana # 9
Michigan #13
Montana #15
Missouri #17
Kentucky #18
New York #20
Mississippi #25
-------------------------------------------
Texas #28
Georgia #29
North Dakota #32
Louisiana #34
Oregon #36
New Jersey #37
South Carolina #39
Alabama #43
North Carolina #44
Arkansas #46
Colorado #51
Florida #52

 

[SpecOps13]

Re: States Succession From The Union.

May be just a dream but it's what brought about our Civil War.... I haven't heard much about
State Succession in my 60 years and now we have official petitions.:confused2:
I'm happy Florida is a participant. At the least, it'll be interesting to see how far this goes.:ummm:

 

[ZackDaniels]

Re: States Succession From The Union.

Specifically how does the fed hold states back from enforcing these? I don't know all the answers but one thing is that even if law enforcement identifies and holds illegals INS won't take them unless they're a hard core felon.

I don't know about the rest but I recall hearing about this one. A lot of investigators and law enforcement rely on tips from locals regarding various arguably more important illegal activity. If INS cares about everybody they catch nobody comes forward as a witness on unrelated crimes because they'll get deported. That's the rub on that one. A strict policy risks letting the occasional rapist or murderer walk because we deported a key witness, and even if we were to take steps to only deport them after they served a purpose to the case future people certainly wouldn't come forward if they knew that's what was on the other side.

May be just a dream but it's what brought about our Civil War.... I haven't heard much about
State Succession in my 60 years and now we have official petitions.:confused2:
I'm happy Florida is a participant. At the least, it'll be interesting to see how far this goes.:ummm:

You're hearing about it ironically for the first time because of open government initiatives by the Obama administration to let people more directly petition for change. What you're seeing is the downside of that sort of program because now all kinds of time and energy will need to get spent putting to bed a fever dream.