Steering Wobble

[jack6109518]

Hi, everyone.

I have a 2006 with only 7300 miles. I just got it a couple of weeks ago. At 40mph, give or take 5mph, if I take my left hand off the handlebars I get steering wobble. I think it happened as slow as 25mph as well. When I put both hands back on it lessens dramatically - almost normal.

The air pressure is right at max psi. The tire has good tread but looks like it could be a bit older because I see tiny cracks here and there in the treads but it's not too bad at all.

Is there anything I can do so the steering wobble goes away? It it seems kind of worrisome.

Thank you.

 

[Fire-medic]

Things to check:

steering head bearings and tension
f & r wheel bearings
swingarm pivots tension
front fork oil capacity, fork seals
front fork air pressure (may be disregarded if you have Progressive Suspension fork springs, they do not run air pressure in the forks)
front fork alignment and bolt torque, including the axle
tire pressures, tire wear
condition of rear shocks
fork alignment, front to rear wheel alignment
if you live near one a GMD Computrack frame alignment GMD Computrack

http://vmoa.net/VMX12-Service-Manual01.pdf
Values and processes/procedures can be found in the Yamaha Service Manual. Print-out a copy and put it into a loose-leaf notebook, and save the file to your computer. The first part of the manual has year by year updates from the beginning to p.64 as shown on the .pdf page counter on the upper-left of your screen. The rear of the manual has bolt sizes, torque values, cable routing, hose routing, and much-more. If you plan on doing your own work, get to know the layout. There are a few errors in the manual, there is a thread on the forum about that. Use the forum's upper-right-hand 'search' function to get that info.

The #1 best change you can do to your bike for handling in my opinion is to switch to radial tires. While there are now 15" radial tires for bikes, I don't believe there are any in a V-rated capacity. Usually people switch to a fabricated rear wheel 17" (more V-rated rubber choices, because that's used on sportbikes) or 18" which will put you much-closer to stock wheel/tire diameter, and cost you less in loss of top-end, which happens when going to a 17" rear.

The front tire choice should be the same as the rear tire, in construction (bias-ply vs radial) and in the durometer of the rubber (hardness of the tire compound) so the f & r tires are complimentary to each other. If you have a soft rear for traction, but choose a touring tire (harder compound) for the front, the rear would tend to stick better while you could find that the front end wants to slide rather than stick. Unless you're Freddy Spencer (who possessed an extraordinary ability to slide the front and rear simultaneously) this is not a characteristic you want for your rubber! In other words, when it comes to front and rear rubber, match but don't mix.

The front VMax wheel is not the optimal width for a radial tire of the same dimension as OEM, and you definitely do not want to replace the front tire with a larger-than-stock front radial tire. The 'footprint' of the radial tire requires a wider tire/wheel interface than you have with a stock bias-ply tire/wheel. Those of us who grew up when tires were matched to "inch" sized rims, and the old standard WM system of wheel size ratings, will recall that a WM-3 (2.15" by whatever wheel diameter, usually 18") was considered a 'wide' tire/wheel combo, but which is puny by today's standards. There was a WM-4 (2.50" by whatever wheel diameter) but it was rarely-used. It wasn't until the mid/late 1980's that radial tires were commonly-used on sportbikes. I use a front radial tire of the same dimension as the OEM VMax tire (110/90-18"), as-close as I can get, for bead width and aspect ratio. Don't neglect to match the tire rubber front and rear, for intended use. If you don't ride hard, you may choose to trade some stickiness of the rubber for tire longevity, but this is a sporting, high-performance motorcycle. Too-much throttle while turning a corner at an oily intersection will have the rear-end step right-out on you! Of course, even if you're on sticky rubber, if someone just leaked fluid (ATF, coolant, engine oil, tar, power steering fluid) all-over your tire's pathway you may lose traction.

People have used a European-market wheel in the rear, from another bike, but it wasn't a USA-market bike.

The increase on steering precision at-speed is considerable with radials over OEM bias-ply tires. It's not as-pronounced with new bias-ply premium tires, but after 1,000 miles, for me, you can really discern the bias-ply vs radials difference.

Be aware that your grip on the handlebars provides some damping, so removing your hand changes that. In the initial list, there are many possibilities for things in your bike's mechanics to be less-than optimal. If several things meet that 'lacking' criterion, and you add to it by removing your hand from the grip, well, there you have it.

Sean Morley (Morley's Muscle) has a couple of videos you can access on youtube, about your front end. One is 'the bounce test.' With the front end off the ground and the wheel centered, give it a slight push to each side, individually, and see what happens. It should readily fall to that side. There should be no stickiness, no sense of bumpiness in the travel of the forks' flop to that side, or to the other side. If you can feel notchiness in the travel of the forks going left-right, you have either dirt in your steering head bearings, or (more-likely) worn-out bearings and races. One cause of worn-out bearings and races is an enthusiastic right-hand on the throttle, pulling big wheelies, and letting the front end smash back to the pavement. This can cause indentations in the bearing races and harm the bearings, causing that 'notchy' feeling, somewhat like running your index finger across the teeth of a haircomb. They're shot, and need to be replaced. Companies like All-Balls and Race-Tech as well as OEM Yamaha bearing kits will take care of that. Watch the video to learn the 'bounce' criterion.

You have a low-mileage example, so I wouldn't expect the steering head bearings to be 'knackered,' as our British friends describe it. However, a loose steering head bearing stack and big frequent wheelies with hard-impact landings could cause abnormal wear. Biggest issues in bearing replacement are removing the lower triple tree bearing race, and the upper steering head outer race. The lower steering head outer race can usually be driven-out with a driftpin. There are also specific tools for the job. A bit of heat can help things part company.

The upper steering head outer race removal is where heat helps greatly. Some people put a couple weld beads onto the race surface, and use that as a place to use a driftpin or a chisel to get purchase-enough to knock out the race. The welding often provides enough heat that tapping on the weld beads placed 180 degrees apart, will drive-out the race. First one side, then the other. Back to the first, etc. If you really wanted an easy job of it next time, grind a small 'eyebrow' 180 degrees apart into the steering head sleeve, where you could get a driftpin or a chisel onto the thick outer edge of the bearing, should you need to replace the race again. Seeing as most bikes probably go from production line to recycling on the same set of steering head bearings, this may not be something you do again. But if you do, the job will be easier.

Some people use a grinding tool to cut-through the races discussed. If you choose to do that, use full-face protection, not just safety glasses! An exploding abrasive disc can lacerate you badly before you even know it happened. If you're stupid-enough not to use safety glasses, you can substitute 'blinded' for 'lacerate.'

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

Tire. Replace the tire. I had that on mine when I first got it. It was the tire.

 

[MaxMidnight]

First thing I would do is to check for any run out of the tyre and wheel.

 

[jack6109518]

Thank you, fellas. I'm going to start with replacing the front tire right away!

I really appreciate the input.

 

[Rick52]

Things to check:

steering head bearings and tension
f & r wheel bearings
swingarm pivots tension
front fork oil capacity, fork seals
front fork air pressure (may be disregarded if you have Progressive Suspension fork springs, they do not run air pressure in the forks)
front fork alignment and bolt torque, including the axle
tire pressures, tire wear
condition of rear shocks
fork alignment, front to rear wheel alignment
if you live near one a GMD Computrack frame alignment GMD Computrack

http://vmoa.net/VMX12-Service-Manual01.pdf
Values and processes/procedures can be found in the Yamaha Service Manual. Print-out a copy and put it into a loose-leaf notebook, and save the file to your computer. The first part of the manual has year by year updates from the beginning to p.64 as shown on the .pdf page counter on the upper-left of your screen. The rear of the manual has bolt sizes, torque values, cable routing, hose routing, and much-more. If you plan on doing your own work, get to know the layout. There are a few errors in the manual, there is a thread on the forum about that. Use the forum's upper-right-hand 'search' function to get that info.

The #1 best change you can do to your bike for handling in my opinion is to switch to radial tires. While there are now 15" radial tires for bikes, I don't believe there are any in a V-rated capacity. Usually people switch to a fabricated rear wheel 17" (more V-rated rubber choices, because that's used on sportbikes) or 18" which will put you much-closer to stock wheel/tire diameter, and cost you less in loss of top-end, which happens when going to a 17" rear.

The front tire choice should be the same as the rear tire, in construction (bias-ply vs radial) and in the durometer of the rubber (hardness of the tire compound) so the f & r tires are complimentary to each other. If you have a soft rear for traction, but choose a touring tire (harder compound) for the front, the rear would tend to stick better while you could find that the front end wants to slide rather than stick. Unless you're Freddy Spencer (who possessed an extraordinary ability to slide the front and rear simultaneously) this is not a characteristic you want for your rubber! In other words, when it comes to front and rear rubber, match but don't mix.

The front VMax wheel is not the optimal width for a radial tire of the same dimension as OEM, and you definitely do not want to replace the front tire with a larger-than-stock front radial tire. The 'footprint' of the radial tire requires a wider tire/wheel interface than you have with a stock bias-ply tire/wheel. Those of us who grew up when tires were matched to "inch" sized rims, and the old standard WM system of wheel size ratings, will recall that a WM-3 (2.15" by whatever wheel diameter, usually 18") was considered a 'wide' tire/wheel combo, but which is puny by today's standards. There was a WM-4 (2.50" by whatever wheel diameter) but it was rarely-used. It wasn't until the mid/late 1980's that radial tires were commonly-used on sportbikes. I use a front radial tire of the same dimension as the OEM VMax tire (110/90-18"), as-close as I can get, for bead width and aspect ratio. Don't neglect to match the tire rubber front and rear, for intended use. If you don't ride hard, you may choose to trade some stickiness of the rubber for tire longevity, but this is a sporting, high-performance motorcycle. Too-much throttle while turning a corner at an oily intersection will have the rear-end step right-out on you! Of course, even if you're on sticky rubber, if someone just leaked fluid (ATF, coolant, engine oil, tar, power steering fluid) all-over your tire's pathway you may lose traction.

People have used a European-market wheel in the rear, from another bike, but it wasn't a USA-market bike.

The increase on steering precision at-speed is considerable with radials over OEM bias-ply tires. It's not as-pronounced with new bias-ply premium tires, but after 1,000 miles, for me, you can really discern the bias-ply vs radials difference.

Be aware that your grip on the handlebars provides some damping, so removing your hand changes that. In the initial list, there are many possibilities for things in your bike's mechanics to be less-than optimal. If several things meet that 'lacking' criterion, and you add to it by removing your hand from the grip, well, there you have it.

Sean Morley (Morley's Muscle) has a couple of videos you can access on youtube, about your front end. One is 'the bounce test.' With the front end off the ground and the wheel centered, give it a slight push to each side, individually, and see what happens. It should readily fall to that side. There should be no stickiness, no sense of bumpiness in the travel of the forks' flop to that side, or to the other side. If you can feel notchiness in the travel of the forks going left-right, you have either dirt in your steering head bearings, or (more-likely) worn-out bearings and races. One cause of worn-out bearings and races is an enthusiastic right-hand on the throttle, pulling big wheelies, and letting the front end smash back to the pavement. This can cause indentations in the bearing races and harm the bearings, causing that 'notchy' feeling, somewhat like running your index finger across the teeth of a haircomb. They're shot, and need to be replaced. Companies like All-Balls and Race-Tech as well as OEM Yamaha bearing kits will take care of that. Watch the video to learn the 'bounce' criterion.

You have a low-mileage example, so I wouldn't expect the steering head bearings to be 'knackered,' as our British friends describe it. However, a loose steering head bearing stack and big frequent wheelies with hard-impact landings could cause abnormal wear. Biggest issues in bearing replacement are removing the lower triple tree bearing race, and the upper steering head outer race. The lower steering head outer race can usually be driven-out with a driftpin. There are also specific tools for the job. A bit of heat can help things part company.

The upper steering head outer race removal is where heat helps greatly. Some people put a couple weld beads onto the race surface, and use that as a place to use a driftpin or a chisel to get purchase-enough to knock out the race. The welding often provides enough heat that tapping on the weld beads placed 180 degrees apart, will drive-out the race. First one side, then the other. Back to the first, etc. If you really wanted an easy job of it next time, grind a small 'eyebrow' 180 degrees apart into the steering head sleeve, where you could get a driftpin or a chisel onto the thick outer edge of the bearing, should you need to replace the race again. Seeing as most bikes probably go from production line to recycling on the same set of steering head bearings, this may not be something you do again. But if you do, the job will be easier.

Some people use a grinding tool to cut-through the races discussed. If you choose to do that, use full-face protection, not just safety glasses! An exploding abrasive disc can lacerate you badly before you even know it happened. If you're stupid-enough not to use safety glasses, you can substitute 'blinded' for 'lacerate.'

 

[DirtieGirtie]

Old, hard tires are dangerous. There should be a small oval on the tire with four numbers. That is the mfg week and year. E.g. An oval with 2114 would be week 21 of 2014. If it's the original (2005 or 2006 mfg date), then get rid of it ASAP.

 

[jack6109518]

Will do. I will look right away when I get home. Since the bike is a 2006 with only 7k miles I bet they are original.

Do you know which tire brand has that red line on it? I like that and want to try to put those back on.

Thank you again!

 

[Dansmaxresto]

I had a problem with the Dunlop qualifiers causing wobble but that was at very high speeds. Switched to Shinkos with a more rounded profile compared to the more triangular Dunlops and no more wobble.

 

[Fire-medic]

If you try to run a bias-ply and a radial, you are going to have bad handling. Dangerous handling. Don't even think about it.

I expect someone will come-on here and say, "well, the XYZ bike ran bias-ply and radial tires." Yes, a very-small handful of bikes actually came spec'ed that way. However, The Yamaha Gen. 1 VMax is not one of them. Please don't waste your money doing something like this.

Where a factory tested, designed, equipped and spec'ed this unusual combination, you can be sure that there were multiple engineers involved, not somebody sitting in-front of a computer, saying, "wow, lookit the close-out pricing on this tire that fits my bike! So-what one will be a bias-ply, and one will be a radial?"

One time, I was asked to take a bike for a ride, because the owner was concerned about, "it doesn't handle like it used-to." I only had to ride it a couple of miles before I returned it, to exclaim, "that bike has evil handling!" It was easy to see one tire was new, and it didn't match the construction of the old one (one bias-ply, one radial). Once he removed the 'bargain tire' ( a good quality tire, but not the same construction as what remained on the bike) and replaced it with one the same as the remaining tire, the evil handling disappeared.

 

[TBrooks47]

Hi, everyone.

I have a 2006 with only 7300 miles. I just got it a couple of weeks ago. At 40mph, give or take 5mph, if I take my left hand off the handlebars I get steering wobble. I think it happened as slow as 25mph as well. When I put both hands back on it lessens dramatically - almost normal.

The air pressure is right at max psi. The tire has good tread but looks like it could be a bit older because I see tiny cracks here and there in the treads but it's not too bad at all.

Is there anything I can do so the steering wobble goes away? It it seems kind of worrisome.

Thank you.

As mentioned in previous replies quality tires are a difference maker. However also mentioned previously check YouTube, Sean Morleys bounce test.
Low speed wobble this is the first thing I would check, it’s easy and doesn’t cost anything. Had the exact same issue at very close to the same miles on my 06 not that the year makes a difference. Tightening up the steering head bearings slightly and problem solved.
This is a great site for information on the Vmax. Several guys on here that really know this bike. I’ve gotten a lot of help from Sean Morley myself and he is an excellent source for info and parts

 

[jack6109518]

Thank you all for the replies!

 

[one2dmax]

Man, talk about over complication of what is quite likely a simple adjustment of the steering head bearing tension. Look for our youtube video showing how to adjust the Vmax steering head bearings. Problem solved and off you go.

 

[ouchez]

Things to check:

steering head bearings and tension
f & r wheel bearings
swingarm pivots tension
front fork oil capacity, fork seals
front fork air pressure (may be disregarded if you have Progressive Suspension fork springs, they do not run air pressure in the forks)
front fork alignment and bolt torque, including the axle
tire pressures, tire wear
condition of rear shocks
fork alignment, front to rear wheel alignment
if you live near one a GMD Computrack frame alignment GMD Computrack

http://vmoa.net/VMX12-Service-Manual01.pdf
Values and processes/procedures can be found in the Yamaha Service Manual. Print-out a copy and put it into a loose-leaf notebook, and save the file to your computer. The first part of the manual has year by year updates from the beginning to p.64 as shown on the .pdf page counter on the upper-left of your screen. The rear of the manual has bolt sizes, torque values, cable routing, hose routing, and much-more. If you plan on doing your own work, get to know the layout. There are a few errors in the manual, there is a thread on the forum about that. Use the forum's upper-right-hand 'search' function to get that info.

The #1 best change you can do to your bike for handling in my opinion is to switch to radial tires. While there are now 15" radial tires for bikes, I don't believe there are any in a V-rated capacity. Usually people switch to a fabricated rear wheel 17" (more V-rated rubber choices, because that's used on sportbikes) or 18" which will put you much-closer to stock wheel/tire diameter, and cost you less in loss of top-end, which happens when going to a 17" rear.

The front tire choice should be the same as the rear tire, in construction (bias-ply vs radial) and in the durometer of the rubber (hardness of the tire compound) so the f & r tires are complimentary to each other. If you have a soft rear for traction, but choose a touring tire (harder compound) for the front, the rear would tend to stick better while you could find that the front end wants to slide rather than stick. Unless you're Freddy Spencer (who possessed an extraordinary ability to slide the front and rear simultaneously) this is not a characteristic you want for your rubber! In other words, when it comes to front and rear rubber, match but don't mix.

The front VMax wheel is not the optimal width for a radial tire of the same dimension as OEM, and you definitely do not want to replace the front tire with a larger-than-stock front radial tire. The 'footprint' of the radial tire requires a wider tire/wheel interface than you have with a stock bias-ply tire/wheel. Those of us who grew up when tires were matched to "inch" sized rims, and the old standard WM system of wheel size ratings, will recall that a WM-3 (2.15" by whatever wheel diameter, usually 18") was considered a 'wide' tire/wheel combo, but which is puny by today's standards. There was a WM-4 (2.50" by whatever wheel diameter) but it was rarely-used. It wasn't until the mid/late 1980's that radial tires were commonly-used on sportbikes. I use a front radial tire of the same dimension as the OEM VMax tire (110/90-18"), as-close as I can get, for bead width and aspect ratio. Don't neglect to match the tire rubber front and rear, for intended use. If you don't ride hard, you may choose to trade some stickiness of the rubber for tire longevity, but this is a sporting, high-performance motorcycle. Too-much throttle while turning a corner at an oily intersection will have the rear-end step right-out on you! Of course, even if you're on sticky rubber, if someone just leaked fluid (ATF, coolant, engine oil, tar, power steering fluid) all-over your tire's pathway you may lose traction.

People have used a European-market wheel in the rear, from another bike, but it wasn't a USA-market bike.

The increase on steering precision at-speed is considerable with radials over OEM bias-ply tires. It's not as-pronounced with new bias-ply premium tires, but after 1,000 miles, for me, you can really discern the bias-ply vs radials difference.

Be aware that your grip on the handlebars provides some damping, so removing your hand changes that. In the initial list, there are many possibilities for things in your bike's mechanics to be less-than optimal. If several things meet that 'lacking' criterion, and you add to it by removing your hand from the grip, well, there you have it.

Sean Morley (Morley's Muscle) has a couple of videos you can access on youtube, about your front end. One is 'the bounce test.' With the front end off the ground and the wheel centered, give it a slight push to each side, individually, and see what happens. It should readily fall to that side. There should be no stickiness, no sense of bumpiness in the travel of the forks' flop to that side, or to the other side. If you can feel notchiness in the travel of the forks going left-right, you have either dirt in your steering head bearings, or (more-likely) worn-out bearings and races. One cause of worn-out bearings and races is an enthusiastic right-hand on the throttle, pulling big wheelies, and letting the front end smash back to the pavement. This can cause indentations in the bearing races and harm the bearings, causing that 'notchy' feeling, somewhat like running your index finger across the teeth of a haircomb. They're shot, and need to be replaced. Companies like All-Balls and Race-Tech as well as OEM Yamaha bearing kits will take care of that. Watch the video to learn the 'bounce' criterion.

You have a low-mileage example, so I wouldn't expect the steering head bearings to be 'knackered,' as our British friends describe it. However, a loose steering head bearing stack and big frequent wheelies with hard-impact landings could cause abnormal wear. Biggest issues in bearing replacement are removing the lower triple tree bearing race, and the upper steering head outer race. The lower steering head outer race can usually be driven-out with a driftpin. There are also specific tools for the job. A bit of heat can help things part company.

The upper steering head outer race removal is where heat helps greatly. Some people put a couple weld beads onto the race surface, and use that as a place to use a driftpin or a chisel to get purchase-enough to knock out the race. The welding often provides enough heat that tapping on the weld beads placed 180 degrees apart, will drive-out the race. First one side, then the other. Back to the first, etc. If you really wanted an easy job of it next time, grind a small 'eyebrow' 180 degrees apart into the steering head sleeve, where you could get a driftpin or a chisel onto the thick outer edge of the bearing, should you need to replace the race again. Seeing as most bikes probably go from production line to recycling on the same set of steering head bearings, this may not be something you do again. But if you do, the job will be easier.

Some people use a grinding tool to cut-through the races discussed. If you choose to do that, use full-face protection, not just safety glasses! An exploding abrasive disc can lacerate you badly before you even know it happened. If you're stupid-enough not to use safety glasses, you can substitute 'blinded' for 'lacerate.'

On my 05 bought new and at 2000 miles I got the shake at lower speeds. I followed Morleys video exactly and bought a special made tool on ebay to tighten the beaings when doing the Morley gig. I do this every year at the start of the riding season and all is well. Doing wheelies causes all kinds of problems, and so does smoking the rear tire,,respect the MAX and it will be good to you and if you lay up in the winter do the fuel process correctly to keep the carbs right.

 

[jack6109518]

Mornin' fellas.

Last night I followed this:

It worked! Steering wobble is gone. Yes!!! I just bought a spanner wrench on Amazon for $12. That plus my 27mm wrench to loosen the top nut.

I just put the bike on the center stand and sat on the back of the seat and that raised up the front wheel so that I could do the bounce test while sitting on the bike. And then I tightened up the steering head bearing a little at a time, testing the bounce each iteration until it barely bounced, tightened back up the top nut and it took it for a test drive, and whamo! Perfect. I even took both hands off the handle bars while going down the road and it stayed perfect - didn't wobble a hair. Beforehand even if I took my left hand off it would wobble.

Thanks everyone for the input, but I have to say the Searn Morley procedure is what did it.

By the way, I checked my tires and they are from the beginning part of 2016. So I can probably finish out the season as the tread is still good.

 

[sdt354]

Good to here a success story. If overtightened, we get a low speed weave. The bounce test puts you in the sweet spot, and makes it very simple. Not pertaining to this low mileage bike, but after many miles I usually pull the trees for race inspection and hopefully just a grease packing. Once the notching starts in the race you can't get a good adjustment. Safe riding all!