Sudden no start situation

[Buster Hymen]

As usual my bike has crapped out 2 days before a ride! :bang head: Just got back from a ride, stopped the bike, then about 5 minutes later went to restart it and it just cranks but doesn't fire. All the plugs are wet when I pull them. Pretty sure it isn't the ignitor unit so I'm trying to figure out what other common items relate to this issue. I know the kick stand and clutch interlock can produce this condition, is there anything else that I might be over looking?

 

[maleko89]

I doubt it's the clutch or sidestand switch. To prove put side stand down and bike in gear. Hopefully you have a center stand. Bike shouldn't turn over. If stand is up and in gear it should turn over with clutch pulled. If clutch is out, it won't turn over. If these tests pass the clutch switch, neutral switch and sidestand switch are in working order.

I would test your sidestand relay. It's mounted just under front coils. Turn your key on and measure voltage from black wire to a frame ground. You should only read 12 volts if the sidestand is down AND bike is in gear. If it reads voltage with bike in neutral and sidestand is down then that means the relay is energized and grounding your ignitor and not firing the coils.

 

[lankeeyankee]

I know the kick stand and clutch interlock can produce this condition, is there anything else that I might be over looking?[/quote]


Hmm no the sidestand and clutch switches are in the starter circuit, which has nothing to do with no spark.

Something with coil volatge 12VDC do you have 12VDC to your coils with the ignition SW on?

 

[lankeeyankee]

Well maybe you are correct Maleko. I was always under the impression if any of these switches were closed it wouldnt even crank the starter. I havent looked at the wiring diagram, but you know the VMAX electrical system.. Tossing ya a burrito..:th_favorites24:

 

[maleko89]

Well maybe you are correct Maleko. I was always under the impression if any of these switches were closed it wouldnt even crank the starter. I havent looked at the wiring diagram, but you know the VMAX electrical system.. Tossing ya a burrito..:th_favorites24:

Lankee, no argument from me. The starter cutoff relay does that. If it's turning over then it's not the switches IMHO. Thanks for the burrito.

 

[Buster Hymen]

I know the kick stand and clutch interlock can produce this condition, is there anything else that I might be over looking?

Hmm no the sidestand and clutch switches are in the starter circuit, which has nothing to do with no spark.

Something with coil volatge 12VDC do you have 12VDC to your coils with the ignition SW on?[/quote]

Your right about the clutch switch but the sidestand switch is in this circuit. I have them both by passed so I couldn't remember what the effects were and couldn't locate my service manual. I've since found the manual but posted this thread looking for ideas until I could find a schematic. Looks like I need to find 12V on the R/W wire to the ignitor.

 

[lankeeyankee]

Yeah, I think I am going to agree here even though I am not a real pro on wiring diagram.

But thinking logically..
Something was effected by heat. It got hot and when it cooled down it went bad. It was running fine until you went to try and start it again. This sounds like like an electrical component. Not a switch. An electrical coponent that heats up and cools down such as the ignitor or the black box.

 

[naughtyG]

I would say coil. In my experience, every vehicle I've ever had that gave me this kind of trouble with had some dodgy coil giving me shite..

 

[lankeeyankee]

The VMAX has 4 coils. The bike would start with one bad coil and also with 2 bad coils, I highly doubt he had 3 or all 4 go out at the sametime.

 

[naughtyG]

:confused2:hmm very true

So it must be either what feeds the coils, or possibly a ground somewhere or a short..

 

[maleko89]

Buster, could be p/u coils too. Probably not since earlier models have two packs of two and rarely all go bad.

 

[jfeagins]

Have you considered a fuel problem? My Max has been doing this very same thing (as far as symptoms) off and on for nearly a year, but every time it does it I notice that when I turn the key back on the fuel pump has to re-pressurize the lines. It shouldn't have to re-pressurize nearly as much as I'm experiencing. I theorize leaking needle/seats causing flooding. ???

Maybe I have two problems going at the same time and am also having an ignition problem???

I finally broke down and ordered a set of needle/seat assy's and am going to spend some quality time with the carbs on the bench this weekend in the hopes my problem is flooding.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I really need to clean the carbs and re-sync anyway. And if you all are like me, one of my favorite things to do in this world is spend half a day working with Max's carbs on the bench when the alternative would be to either mow the yard or go for a great ride in the countryside. :bang head:

I guess after I have gone through the carbs etc... and if I still have the re-starting hot problem, then I'll know I have electrical issues to find too. :hmmm:

 

[Buster Hymen]

Have you considered a fuel problem? My Max has been doing this very same thing (as far as symptoms) off and on for nearly a year, but every time it does it I notice that when I turn the key back on the fuel pump has to re-pressurize the lines. It shouldn't have to re-pressurize nearly as much as I'm experiencing. I theorize leaking needle/seats causing flooding. ???

Maybe I have two problems going at the same time and am also having an ignition problem???

I finally broke down and ordered a set of needle/seat assy's and am going to spend some quality time with the carbs on the bench this weekend in the hopes my problem is flooding.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I really need to clean the carbs and re-sync anyway. And if you all are like me, one of my favorite things to do in this world is spend half a day working with Max's carbs on the bench when the alternative would be to either mow the yard or go for a great ride in the countryside. :bang head:

I guess after I have gone through the carbs etc... and if I still have the re-starting hot problem, then I'll know I have electrical issues to find too. :hmmm:

The plugs are wet and I'm running EFI so I know the fuel part is working.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Not knowing the exact wiring for your system: Have you made sure that the ECU is sending a signal to fire the coils? I am wondering if the ECU took a dump on you or is there a simple fix like a connector that came loose.

 

[Buster Hymen]

Buster, could be p/u coils too. Probably not since earlier models have two packs of two and rarely all go bad.

Shit... well there's the problem. :bang head: Specs is 110 ohms and mine come back at 230 ohms. And of course no supplier has one in stock near me. This sucks, another ride sabotaged by this bike.... worse thing is I just spent over an hour at a Dyno shop working out a half decent map, pulled 129 hp, but I'm tired of always fixing the thing.:damn angry: This will probably be the end of the season for me. I believe my winter project will be to strip the mods off the VMax and sell it stock. So anyone interested in an EFI system, freshly built/resprung USD forks off a Hayabusa, 4-2-1 Kerker with 1.5 and 2.5 can and a few other things, let me know. This will give me the winter to think about what I want to ride in the spring.

 

[fasterlapdunn]

how much for the kerker?

 

[Jayhawk]

Shit... well there's the problem. :bang head: Specs is 110 ohms and mine come back at 230 ohms. And of course no supplier has one in stock near me. This sucks, another ride sabotaged by this bike.... worse thing is I just spent over an hour at a Dyno shop working out a half decent map, pulled 129 hp, but I'm tired of always fixing the thing.:damn angry: This will probably be the end of the season for me. I believe my winter project will be to strip the mods off the VMax and sell it stock. So anyone interested in an EFI system, freshly built/resprung USD forks off a Hayabusa, 4-2-1 Kerker with 1.5 and 2.5 can and a few other things, let me know. This will give me the winter to think about what I want to ride in the spring.

Sorry it's over for you until after the snow's done flying. Damn the luck.

 

[maleko89]

Shit... well there's the problem. :bang head: Specs is 110 ohms and mine come back at 230 ohms. And of course no supplier has one in stock near me. This sucks, another ride sabotaged by this bike.... worse thing is I just spent over an hour at a Dyno shop working out a half decent map, pulled 129 hp, but I'm tired of always fixing the thing.:damn angry: This will probably be the end of the season for me. I believe my winter project will be to strip the mods off the VMax and sell it stock. So anyone interested in an EFI system, freshly built/resprung USD forks off a Hayabusa, 4-2-1 Kerker with 1.5 and 2.5 can and a few other things, let me know. This will give me the winter to think about what I want to ride in the spring.

Buster, when measuring resistance did you use the black wire as common? Manual says use orange but that's incorrect.