V-boost is glorified solution for bad carburetors. Funny!!!

[Pighuntingpuppy]

If torque is a useless figure, why does the metric world use Nm-Newton Meters(another measure for torque) and NOT HP ratings?

Each horse pushed with a force that Watt estimated at 180 pounds. From this, Watt calculated that one horsepower was equivalent to one horse doing 33,000 foot-pounds of work in one minute.

With that, we can see why most of the world doesnt use this as a valid unit of measure.

 

[02GF74]

Your torque number is useless unless you know RPM. Well, if you know 2 numbers, that is power. If you take 10 foot long board and stick it in rear wheel of your bike, you will create torque more than Hayabusa. Can you move bike with this torque? No, you cannot! Because you cannot create RPM with 2x4! Any 10 years old girl can create huge torque!!

That's not correct.
Let's consider a Ducati 916 - why? Because it has single side swing arm that allows uninterupted access to the tyre.

Instead of a lever, lets bolt a handle to the side of the tyre.
Torque is generated by pushing/pulling on the handle, the amount being the distance of handle to the wheel centre (the lever) x force on the handle.

THE TORQUE IS WHAT MOVES THE BIKE.

How fast the Ducati moves depends on how quickly the wheel is turned, which depends on how strong/fit the person is who is doing the turning. At any speed, we can calculate how strong the person needs to be, in other words how much power he/she needs to prodcuce, the power being torque x rpm.

As an side, whilst we're on the subject of turning wheels by hand, here is a tip. If you need to move a car, then instead of pushing it, grab the tyre on one of the wheels and turn it - you will discover it is a lot easier to move.

 

[02GF74]

If torque is a useless figure, why does the metric world use Nm-Newton Meters(another measure for torque) and NOT HP ratings?

You're mixing up 2 different units.

HP or horsepower is for measuring power not torque. The non-metric or imperial unit for torque is lb/ft.

 

[Parminio]

Something we used to like to do back in the day is watch tractor pulls.

The announcers would always hype up the vehicle about to make the pull, that it pushed X amount of horsepower, blah, blah, blah.

They would announce the amount of weight they were attempting to pull. We'd watch with one of us running a stop watch. Then we'd do the calculations and without fail NONE of them were pushing the horsepower the announcer claimed they were pushing.

Math doesn't lie. People do.

 

[desert_max]

Something we used to like to do back in the day is watch tractor pulls.

The announcers would always hype up the vehicle about to make the pull, that it pushed X amount of horsepower, blah, blah, blah.

They would announce the amount of weight they were attempting to pull. We'd watch with one of us running a stop watch. Then we'd do the calculations and without fail NONE of them were pushing the horsepower the announcer claimed they were pushing.

Math doesn't lie. People do.

I think with regard to tractor pulls, that although your conclusions were likely valid, there were more variables at play that should have been factored in. Inertia, stiction, soil density, blah, blah, blah. Math for calculating HP (it IS a calculated value) in the automotive world has fewer intervening variables.

 

[DreamV4]

Boss Hoss has 400 lb/ft. I guess every forum member can create such torque using 12 ft board. You need to apply force 400/12=33 LB.
Whoever believes torque moves bikes, I want to see you accelerating BossHoss with 12' board... After you try, you'll understand, what moves bikes, torque or power.

 

[MaxMidnight]

If torque is a useless figure, why does the metric world use Nm-Newton Meters(another measure for torque) and NOT HP ratings?

Each horse pushed with a force that Watt estimated at 180 pounds. From this, Watt calculated that one horsepower was equivalent to one horse doing 33,000 foot-pounds of work in one minute.

With that, we can see why most of the world doesn't use this as a valid unit of measure.

Perhaps you could expand on why torque might be a useless figure?

You are ignoring the fact that work can be done in a linear or radial manner and why the term 'horse power' was first adopted.
You will be aware, no doubt, that James watt's claim to fame is for his work on improving steam engines.
If you wanted to compare how much work your steam engine could produce it seems reasonable that you compare it to something that your target audience would be familiar with i.e. a horse. Back in the late 18th and early nineteenth century when vehicles moving under their own power were still at the embryonic stage an new vocabulary was needed. Like many things in life as the machines evolves so did the vocabulary and how the terms are used.

As several previous post have tried to explain that torque and horse power (in the modern sense) are two different measurements.
Perhaps you should go back over previous posts and re-read the explanations?
We would be happy to expand on anything you don't understand.

I wonder that if torque is a useless figure then would it also mean we would need to convert our torque wrenches to read angular momentum and use H.P. as the value for tightening fasteners?

You write 'With that, we can see why most of the world doesn't use this as a valid unit of measure'. If that is the case can you explain why all vehicle manufactures give this figure in their engine specifications?

 

[Parminio]

The part the completely fail to comprehend (the "torque doesn't matter" crowd) is that all things horsepower are based on torque, not the other way around.

I'll bet good money they don't even understand what torque really is.

 

[DreamV4]

I am trying to simplify my explanation more and more but some people cannot get it.
Let us try another analogy.Your car died in the middle of road and you are trying to move it. You apply force 100 lb. to push, but it is not enough. This is like torque(analogy to simplify understanding, it is not torque). Force is there but it doesn't do anything! It is useless. Then you apply 150 lb and your car moves 10 feet. That is work (energy?) 150lb x 10 feet. If you spent 10 sec to move it, you can calculate power (150 x 10)/10.
Let us get to your bike. You attach break bar and socket to crank nut and apply let us say torque 10lb/ft. It is not enough, crank doesn't move. Torque is there but nothing happens. Then you apply 50 lb/ft and turned crank by 90 degrees. This is work. Let us say you turned crack by 1 revolution in 10 seconds. This is power. 50 x 1 rev/10. You have to apply power to move your bike: torque and RPM, which is power. If you can turn crank with break bar fast enough (RPM)...
No? Still didn't get it? I am done!!!!!!! Get a text book from school, read Wiki!

 

[sdt354]

V-boost is just a trick.

Unplug yours with it closed, and go for ride. Better yet, lets do a 2nd gear roll-on with yours unplugged and mine working. All this science
not needed, just results.

 

[Parminio]

I am trying to simplify my explanation more and more but some people cannot get it.

That's because the ridiculous "formulas" and "examples" you are using are completely wrong and have absolutely no mathematical bearing on what you're trying to say.

You're in essence saying that you love chocolate because a black and white TV with a moose is a duck.

You just make absolutely ZERO sense at all.

 

[02GF74]

I am trying to simplify my explanation more and more but some people cannot get it.
Let us try another analogy. Your car died in the middle of road and you are trying to move it. You apply force 100 lb. to push, but it is not enough. This is like torque(analogy to simplify understanding, it is not torque). Force is there but it doesn't do anything! It is useless. Then you apply 150 lb and your car moves 10 feet. That is work (energy?) 150lb x 10 feet. If you spent 10 sec to move it, you can calculate power (150 x 10)/10.

No.
The equation for power is P = W/t

P stands for power (in watts)
W stands for the amount of work done (in Joules) or energy expended (in Joules)
t stands for the amount of time (in seconds)

And for Work, W = Fd
W stands for work
F is the force
d represents displacement (or the distance the object travels).

Referring to your example, applying 100 lb force is insufficient to overcome friction to move the car but work is still being done - see above in red. and depending on how long you are pushing for, power can be calcullate with the equations. The tricky part here is calculating the energy expended. Think about it, find a solid wall and push agasint it as hard as you can for an hour - are you expending energy or not? Ofcourse you are, you will get tired and need food to continue.

Applying 150 lb force moves the car so it is force is moving the car( or torque when turing an object about a fixed axis)
You can then calculate power as above.

So as has been pointed out before, it is the force/torque that moves stuff.

 

[Parminio]

Add to that the fact that roughly half the planet doesn't even use the term "horsepower" anymore and he's just so far in over his head he's drowning.

I'll leave it with the great John Cleese to explain:

 

[DreamV4]

it is the force/torque that moves stuff.

Here is another analogy:
2 icebreakers hook up England and tow it next to Greenland. If we know force, distance and time, we can calculate power.

 

[DreamV4]

Add to that the fact that roughly half the planet doesn't even use the term "horsepower" anymore and he's just so far in over his head he's drowning.

I'll leave it with the great John Cleese to explain:

there is something interesting about your video:
the guy has very high blood pressure and will get heart attack pretty soon most likely. Considering high blood pressure is result of bad diet, he should feel pretty stupid, if he understand that he is killing himself. Steeve Jobs was the dumbest guy because he died at age of 56.

 

[Parminio]

there is something interesting about your video:
the guy has very high blood pressure and will get heart attack pretty soon most likely. Considering high blood pressure is result of bad diet, he should feel pretty stupid, if he understand that he is killing himself.

He's 81.

That's 3 years past the average life expectancy.

Now how stupid do you feel?

 

[desert_max]

And all this ^^^^^ folks, is why I am thrilled to have been an electrical engineer for 35 years.

 

[Parminio]

And all this ^^^^^ folks, is why I am thrilled to have been an electrical engineer for 35 years.

Only sharks scare me more than electricity.

 

[V-Four]

This was a fun, well.. entertaining read.

I wonder what kind of topics some people post in the Harley Forums...just for fun.




T$

 

[DreamV4]

He's 81.

That's 3 years past the average life expectancy.

Now how stupid do you feel?

I know his age, I checked. My parents are 84. It doesn't matter. If somebody decreases his life, doing something, it is ....
Got bored.