Vboost Question

[Okie2ee]

This may be a non issue but I'm wandering what the control action is with Vboost when it is initiated at 6000 RPM.................does the controller open the throttle plate to fully open immediately or are they opened percentage wise depending on the motor RPM..................I determined that my Vboost controller has failed and rather than spend great amounts of money to replace it, I can construct one using an Arduino microcontroller for considerably less dollars.................I have searched for details on the forum and externally and only have found descriptions of the Vboost activating at a specific RPM and apparently going wide open immediately.......................Is there any advantage to staged Vboost as the RPM increases which upon further reflection does not make sense unless one would run 50% open at lets say 3000 RPM and then increase opening as RPM increases.................thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated................I have very little performance information/knowledge

 

[MaxMidnight]

A classic case of 'when all else has failed read the instructions'!
Pages 7-61 t0 63 of the service manual explains the operation of the system.

To summarise, the servo motor starts to move at 5730 rpm, the butterflies start to open at 6k and are fully open at 8K.

I have searched for details on the forum and externally and only have found descriptions of the Vboost activating at a specific RPM and apparently going wide open immediately

Not correct it opens progressively - see reference above.

Is there any advantage to staged Vboost as the RPM increases which upon further reflection does not make sense unless one would run 50% open at lets say 3000 RPM and then increase opening as RPM increases................

Yes. think about why V Boost is fitted; the venturi size ensures good air speed at lower revs (higher air speed = lower pressure in the venturi = better atomisation of fuel = more efficient engine) but can't flow sufficient for the motor as revs rise.
To provide additional air/fuel mix at higher revs two carbs feed the cylinder. However, it is because the demand of the motor increases progressively as the revs rise that the butterflies open progressively.
If the butterflies opened completely at 6K the air speed through the venturi's would immediately drop due the the increase cross sectional area of the two venturi's - poorer atomisation...you can work out the rest.
From the above we can conclude that the carb(s) can satisfy the engines requirements up to 6K. Providing additional air/ fuel mix below these revs would not be of benefit and in fact reduces the power output.

PS I think you need to have a look at your full stop button on the keyboard, it appears to be sticking.

 

[Fire-medic]

PS I think you need to have a look at your full stop button on the keyboard, it appears to be sticking.

He is merely paying tribute to one of the most popular people in American broadcast and journalism, who wrote in the same fashion ... Walter Winchell, who popularized the idea of publicity by those influential media personalities of the day shaping hopeful actors' careers, and giving birth to what are today referred to as ... 'influencers.' Winchill was probably the most-widely syndicated newspaper columnist of his day ... literally thousands of newspapers carried his column, at a time when even smaller cities had multiple newspapers, some printing a 'morning edition,' while others printed an 'evening edition,' and both carried Winchell's column. He was asked by FDR to publicize the idea of intervention in Europe's World War II ... when powerful politicians like Joe Kennedy, aviation hero Charles Lindbergh, and Senator Robert La Follette of Wisconsin preached isolationism for the USA.

Walter Winchell was also a radio show host, his broadcast was hugely-popular across the country, and he spoke like he wrote, judiciously-using pregnant pauses to emphasize his points. He would begin his evening radio broadcast with one of the most-famous sign-ons ever ... "Good-evening Mr. and Mrs. America and all the ships at-sea"... Before there was television, there was Walter Winchell ... arguably the most listened-to radio show host in America ... whose support could catapult a little-known actor/actress into the public eye ... Jackie Gleason, Frank Sinatra, Arthur Godfrey, and for a later generation, Rowan and Martin benefitted from his public support/publicity. He also could ruin careers ... Josephine Baker and Ethel Barrymoore were two actresses whose careers suffered because of Winchell's public castigation.

Baby Boomers are familiar with the voice of Walter Winchell because of a medium an earlier generation didn't have access-to, as they were growing-up, that would be television, where Winchell's distinctive voice narrated the story of America's Chicago-based Prohibition agents ... starring Robert Stack as Elliot Ness. ...

Ness was a federal Treasury agent, and not a member of the FBI, he famously-fought against those who would violate Prohibition in the Chicago area ... Winchell's narration of The Untouchables was drenched in gravitas, and though it was only on from 1959-1963 as a first-run show, it helped to make Desilu Productions a TV success. Desilu was a business with Lucille Ball and her husband Desi Arnaz as its principals, using the first part of both their names for the company's name. Desilu went-on to produce another series hugely-popular with the Baby Boomers, and an integral part of popular culture, decades after it left first-run status, Star Trek ... which spawned multiple spin-off tv shows, and a very-successful movie series, all of-which have imprinted popular culture with memes whose origins arise-from the original TV show, and the subsequent movie series.

 

[Okie2ee]

Thank you for the information..........exactly what I was looking for...........it would appear that I'm lazy in that when I checked my manual.............page 7-61 had a paper clip on it to mark the page.............go figure, but you saved me many minutes may be even hours trying to find this information.......please keep in mind that I'm 73 and have no idea if dementia is setting in or not...........I read the description and indeed it has all the information that I will need to implement the control scheme............even had a graph of the operation..............couldn't get any clearer than that.

Fire-medic, thanks for the Walter Winchell recap............I enjoyed that and definitely remember some of that stuff first hand.

 

[desert_max]

Fire-Medic. By now, I shouldn't be amazed, but continue to be with the stuff you bring to the table (sustaining the Vmax is a given) during these discussions.

I think I'd thoroughly enjoy a beer or two with your and an afternoon of "Babble, burble, banter, bicker, Brouhaha, boulder dash and ballyhoo", with apologies to King Crimson.

 

[Fire-medic]

I think I'd thoroughly enjoy a beer or two with your and an afternoon of "Babble, burble, banter, bicker, Brouhaha, boulder dash and ballyhoo", with apologies to King Crimson.

"In The Court of The VMax King"



When I was in college, this song was first-released, I used-to play it on my college radio station show. I still have it on vinyl, bought then. Billboard magazine used to sell the top 100 albums for the cost of mailing a copy, I think it was $1.65 then, I used to buy LP's 20-30 different titles at a time. They came with a distinctive label on the album cover, and the record itself: For radio station use only.

 

[desert_max]

Fripp, Belew, Bruford, Lake (to name a few). Lots of huge talent passed through. One of the most unsung names of "the era". Probably because of the state of flux of the members. Lineup changes were rampant, but King Crimson seemed to change every week.

 

[desert_max]

...and there we go stealing another thread. But, it seems that the Vboost question has been answered.

 

[02GF74]

I can construct one using an Arduino microcontroller for considerably less dollars

That's an overkill - a PIC microcontroller could do what is required.
If you read the manual, the plug to the servo motor has 5 wires:
3 wires for a potentiometer to give feedback on how far the valve has opened
2 wires to power the motor, the voltage is reversed on those wires to drive the motor in reverse direction.

The round 5 pin plug is available - I don't recall what it is called but I sourced a few of them, togeher with pins, from Japan.

If the Vboost module is dead, you won't hear the calibration sequence (4) (5) just after ignition on.

Because the motor is turning a disc in a tube (butterlfy valve), I'm pretty certain that the increase in area for air to flow through is not linear to the angle the motor has turned - it may noit matter but it may need a bit of thought or you could connect a pulse generator to simulate the ignition signal to meaure the amout the butterlfy has opened if you didn't want to rev the hell out of the engine.

But before you begin this journey, tap or press on the Vboost module when powering up, if it momentarily comes to life, then there is a broken track or dry joint,

It may be worth taking the board out and examining the joints very carefully
see: (16) Fixed my Vboost module | Yamaha Star V-Max VMAX Motorcycle Discussion Forum (vmaxforum.net)

 

[VMAXXIMUM]

I suggest you look into the ignitech Controll module available from Sean. It should be particularly satisfying to those of you with electronic knowledge. The basic setup has huge functionality totally customizable ignition maps vboost control, shift lights… And all kinds other stuff you can add.

 

[Okie2ee]

The Arduino is easier for me to program and is overkill but for 5 bucks I can afford the overkill..............I did checkout the connector and have tested the servo motor and measured the variable resistance at the connector pins...............and it is correct that the air flow thru a butterfly valve is not linear however I believe that is splitting hairs when looking at the overall operation which to me is full throttle acceleration from 6000 RPM to 8000 RPM+...........this is how I would be using it. I did remove the circuit board and resolder all the wires connected to the board and also examined it for cracks in the traces although that may not be possible to detect with the naked eye. I just finished a project building a digital gear indicator for my GL1500 trike using an Arduino Nano.

 

[Fire-medic]

The Arduino is easier for me to program and is overkill but for 5 bucks I can afford the overkill..............I did checkout the connector and have tested the servo motor and measured the variable resistance at the connector pins...............and it is correct that the air flow thru a butterfly valve is not linear however I believe that is splitting hairs when looking at the overall operation which to me is full throttle acceleration from 6000 RPM to 8000 RPM+...........this is how I would be using it. I did remove the circuit board and resolder all the wires connected to the board and also examined it for cracks in the traces although that may not be possible to detect with the naked eye. I just finished a project building a digital gear indicator for my GL1500 trike using an Arduino Nano.

nixie tubes!

 

[02GF74]

The Arduino is easier for me to program and is overkill but for 5 bucks I can afford the overkill............

Wow, they certainly have dropped in price.

 

[desert_max]

nixie tubes!

View attachment 76461View attachment 76461

Oh Geez. He's at it again.

 

[Okie2ee]

I don't think the Nixies will fit on my dashboard....................leaning a little more to .75" to 1" LEDs



Basically a 7 segment driver and little logic to take care of the missing 1st gear switch contact. I actually pay around $3.50 each for the Nano, the terminal breakout board costs as much as the controller..............I've now come up with a new plan and that is to replace the DC servo motor with a RC servo and use the pulse logic to control the position of the servo shaft..............a whole lot easier and cheaper to replace the whole mechanism ....................creating a mount for the RC servo should not be a problem...............it will have more than enough torque to pull the throttle plates and will be fast enough for control action...............RC servo is on the way................also would like to add some bells and whistles to the controller..........maybe an LED bar graph to show throttle plate position from closed to open........these are my 10 PM - 12 Midnight projects.....................will keep everyone posted on progress

 

[Ryce]

I don't think the Nixies will fit on my dashboard....................leaning a little more to .75" to 1" LEDs

View attachment 76473

Basically a 7 segment driver and little logic to take care of the missing 1st gear switch contact. I actually pay around $3.50 each for the Nano, the terminal breakout board costs as much as the controller..............I've now come up with a new plan and that is to replace the DC servo motor with a RC servo and use the pulse logic to control the position of the servo shaft..............a whole lot easier and cheaper to replace the whole mechanism ....................creating a mount for the RC servo should not be a problem...............it will have more than enough torque to pull the throttle plates and will be fast enough for control action...............RC servo is on the way................also would like to add some bells and whistles to the controller..........maybe an LED bar graph to show throttle plate position from closed to open........these are my 10 PM - 12 Midnight projects.....................will keep everyone posted on progress

I would like to ask some questions about your learning curve with the Arduino if you don't mind.

Thanks

Ryce

 

[Okie2ee]

I would like to ask some questions about your learning curve with the Arduino if you don't mind.

Thanks

Ryce

What is it you would like to know?...................I'm not an expert but have a working knowledge of the device

 

[Ryce]

My turn signals don't cancel because there is no speedometer output to the turn signal relay. I was thinking of using a Nano to provide a similar input signal. Do you know what is being "sent" to the signal relay? Perhaps a +12V pulse every 1/10 mile. Or some other output. I would be happy with the relay just turning off after 10 secs..

I am new to the Arduino and this seems like good place to have a real world purpose to learn it.

Thanks in advance

Ryce

 

[02GF74]

My first question is why do you not have the speedo signal to the indicator relay? Had the white/green wire been cut, reed switch in the speedo not working or???

Anyways to answer your question. The reed switch grounds the wire so you connect the other end to a pull up resistor, other end being 5 volts or whatever is your arduino power supply.

This occurs 4 times per revolution of the speedo cable.

Work out the circumference of your front tyre.
Dividing this into 1 mile gives revolutions per mile.
Multiple by speedo drive ratio: 2.8
Multiply by 4.

(I calculate this to be 8756 for 110/90 R 18 tyre.)

Decide how far you want to travel before indicators stop flashing to work out the number of pulses to count.

Any further questions may be better asked in here: (18) turn signal | Page 2 | Yamaha Star V-Max VMAX Motorcycle Discussion Forum (vmaxforum.net)

 

[02GF74]

1. I don't think the Nixies will fit on my dashboard....................leaning a little more to .75" to 1" LEDs

2. replace the DC servo motor with a RC servo and use the pulse logic to control the position of the servo shaft..............a whole lot easier and cheaper to replace the whole mechanism .

3. will keep everyone posted on progress

1. Nixies may be a little bit fragile for this purpose but are you aware you can buy multi-digit 7 segment LED displays that are driven by 2 wires (data/clock) - that would save quite a few additional components.

2. if you are planning a stepper motor, then be aware the maximum torque occurs at low rpm - if you are not careful, you may wind the shaft too much so that something gets damaged or the butterfly jams shut - ofcourse that depends on the power of the motor. Personally I'd use the original motor and read the potentiometer to get feedback on the position.

3. definitely keep us informed (I started to look into this but project was abandoned when I fixed my VBoost)