Well its official

[Traumahawk]

You are not showing the cost after the subsidies......that is the price if you were making over 60K a year. At your income level most of that should be subsidized......

Ok...the question that I have is why is 60,000 the cut off point? So just because I have a decent job, that I earned, work my ass off for...and I get PENALIZED for being sucessful, instead of living off of the government?

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Ok...the question that I have is why is 60,000 the cut off point? So just because I have a decent job, that I earned, work my ass off for...and I get PENALIZED for being sucessful, instead of living off of the government?

It's called redistribution of income at gunpoint.

Lets force everyone to buy it. Make those that made good decisions and are doing well pay more (proportionally to those getting subsidies) so the money can be used to subsidize those making ****** decisions and "help" them...

Simply put;

"You make too much money and don't DESERVE any help"

I full well realize this is an overreaching blanket statement and shouldn't apply to the elderly and TRULY poor, but if some **** head screwed around in school, dropped out, spent half his life "having fun" and never focusing on doing the right things to get ahead and now is officially poor I don't see why its "society's" problem.

 

[Itgoes]

Ok...the question that I have is why is 60,000 the cut off point? So just because I have a decent job, that I earned, work my ass off for...and I get PENALIZED for being sucessful, instead of living off of the government?

Do you think that everyone that is poor doesn't work hard? You're not really being being penalized, you'd be paying the going rate.

I can see why some would think it's not fair.......there are a lot of things like that though. Why do people like Mitt Romney and Warren Buffet pay a tax rate of less than 15%?

The cost of health care is being subsidized now anyway, because we all pay for the people who don't have insurance when they show up at the emergency room.

 

[Traumahawk]

Do you think that everyone that is poor doesn't work hard? You're not really being being penalized, you'd be paying the going rate.

I can see why some would think it's not fair.......there are a lot of things like that though. Why do people like Mitt Romney and Warren Buffet pay a tax rate of less than 15%?

The cost of health care is being subsidized now anyway, because we all pay for the people who don't have insurance when they show up at the emergency room.

Ummm...I hate to tell you this...I am single so my tax bracket is 28%, but AFTER my deductions...etc...my EFFECTIVE tax rate for last year was 14.3 percent. Most people dont understand the difference between the tax rate that taxes are withheld, and what their effective tax rate is...(which is figured for the total money paid MINUS your refund)

I use turbo tax, so I know what my effective tax rate is.

My deductions are nothing special, mortage interest..etc. Because I'm a contractor, work related mileage as well.

Sometimes its not just working hard....it having the skills and knowledge that employers want. Work SMARTER....not HARDER.

 

[Itgoes]

Ummm...I hate to tell you this...I am single so my tax bracket is 28%, but AFTER my deductions...etc...my EFFECTIVE tax rate for last year was 14.3 percent. Most people dont understand the difference between the tax rate that taxes are withheld, and what their effective tax rate is...(which is figured for the total money paid MINUS your refund)

I use turbo tax, so I know what my effective tax rate is.

My deductions are nothing special, mortage interest..etc. Because I'm a contractor, work related mileage as well.

Sometimes its not just working hard....it having the skills and knowledge that employers want. Work SMARTER....not HARDER.

I'm all for the smarter not harder....I feel the same way too. I tell my business partner that all the time.

I have to be honest I've never calculated my effective tax rate although I fully understand the difference. What I pay in federal taxes does not bother me really.......state and local taxes are what are really high as well as utilities. 16K a year in property taxes, my water and sewer just went up a couple of years ago when a new company took over. It now cost's me over $500 a quarter. :bang head:

 

[Traumahawk]

I'm all for the smarter not harder....I feel the same way too. I tell my business partner that all the time.

I have to be honest I've never calculated my effective tax rate although I fully understand the difference. What I pay in federal taxes does not bother me really.......state and local taxes are what are really high as well as utilities. 16K a year in property taxes, my water and sewer just went up a couple of years ago when a new company took over. It now cost's me over $500 a quarter. :bang head:

WOW!!! 16K for property taxes is high, and not to mention everything else. I feel for you.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I don't believe anyone believes that ALL the "poor" are just lazy no goods.

I know plenty of low income folks that truly bust their ass trying to get ahead.

But ask yourself; how many times have you heard someone say?

"My unemployment is running out, guess its time to start looking for a job"

I hear that often in the construction industry and find it disturbing.


The 15% thing that got tossed around last election is true for a very tiny percentage of the mega rich living off dividend income only.
Not true for the majority of the so called "rich"

Please do your own research, a good place (in my opinion the only place) to start is the latest IRS data.
The "rich" are clearly paying much more than the rest of us.
More in total dollars but more to the point more as a percentage share of total US income.
In spite of the stories you may hear the federal tax system is very progressive. The "rich" pay a much larger percentage share of taxes against percentage share of total US income, and the ratio has been steadily climbing for the last 20 years.

The bottom 50% of earners have gone from paying about 12% of total taxes to about 2.5% of total taxes in the last 20 years, without a proportional loss of their share of the total income.

We're pushing the tax load further and further up the ladder because populist politics reaps votes.
Obama care is just another form of it in my opinion.


And the previous post about the difference between tax bracket and effective tax rate is spot on and not something the media will ever differentiate.
My effective tax rate usually falls at about 16%-17%
My tax bracket is nearly double that.
And I don't even itemize any more.
Not enough interest left in my home loan and other stuff to beat the standard deduction.

The media does like to muddy the waters though, lately never failing to emphasize how sales and property taxes, that don't go to the Feds, have a greater impact on lower income people and claiming that balances the tax load.
Their point is somewhat valid but misses the issue of who is paying federal taxes.

 

[Traumahawk]

The bottom 50% of earners have gone from paying about 12% of total taxes to about 2.5% of total taxes in the last 20 years, without a proportional loss of their share of the total income.

We're pushing the load further and further up the ladder because populist politics reaps votes.


And the previous post about the difference between tax bracket and effective tax rate is spot on and not something the media will ever differentiate.
My effective tax rate usually falls at about 16%-17%
My tax bracket is nearly double that.
And I don't even itemize any more.
Not enough interest left in my home loan and other stuff to beat the standard friction.

The media does like to muddy the waters though, lately never failing to emphasize how sales and property taxes, that don't go to the Feds, have a greater impact on lower income people.
Their point is somewhat valid but misses the issue of who is paying federal taxes.

Yep...how many times have you spoken to someone that has a lower income, and income tax time is like the lottery? Ive known people that get back MORE in a refund, than what they have ever paid in.

As far as the media goes....yep...its bait and switch and the PERCEIVED truth.

 

[Tex85]

People who are at the low end of the economic scale because they ****** around, didn't apply themselves, etc deserve to be there and should not be subsidized at all by the government. As far as I am concerned you reap what you sow. People who are infirmed, elderly or unable to get by due to a recent loss of job, etc should get the help they need to get back on their feet (if possible) and then removed from the program. The welfare, food stamp, medicare, and other social programs are in shambles because people who should not be participating in them have become an overwhelming burden.

The latest healthcare agenda has some good merits but fundamentally it is like other government social programs. It has been poorly executed and will continue to be with the government's track record. It is redistribution of wealth plain and simple. Rewarding people who have made bad decisions along the way will not fix anything it will only further our downfall as a whole.

I am not wealthy, I am however comfortable and a member of the neglected middle class. My wife and I are both college graduates and have worked hard all throughout all levels of our schooling and in our career fields to get where we are. People I know who dropped out of highschool and brag about the free things they get from the government disgust me. To do nothing with your life is your choice here in the land of the free, it is also my choice to not give a **** about your state of affairs or how life hasn't worked out for you after you only invested your minimal effort.

This is not targeting anyone here just my stance on the latest issues as a whole. Sometimes it just feels good to let crap like this out.

Anyway, all the best.

Tex



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