Whats going on here? K&N pods

[firro]

Hi all,

Since last week im a proud owner of a Vmax '98 with some cool mods.. i will explain more in detail in the 'introduce' section.
The bike starts well, idle is stable but when I open the throttle from the start it stalls.. i have a feeling it doesn't get the required fuel injected.

I also came across this:

I was wondering if my air filters pods are installed correctly by the previous owner. If i compare mine with this video on youtube, (2.58 mark) its different.

See the two pods with tube sticking out on top.

Thanks in advance.

 

[marsmax85]

stage 7 carbs most likely need carbs cleaned then synced

 

[Fire-medic]

'Carb cleaning?' Spraying some red wand juice at the carburetor bellmouths? I find little of any value in this video. Remove the carburetors, strip them, and give them a trip into the ultrasonic bath. blow-out the passages, reassemble them, dry-set the float level, finish the reassembly and re-mount them. Get it running, warmed-up and synchronixze the carburetors. Re-install the air filter, and that should get some results.

I'd check the brass to see what's been installed in the past. There may be a mish-mash of different parts OEM and/or aftermarket. Get back to OEM specs and maybe 150 or 147.5 on the mains, and you probably will be much-happier with how it runs, compared to the video efforts. Or should I say, lack of efforts?

Do searches on here for threads of use in cleaning your carburetors, and then setting them up and in-place, and you should be much-happier. The air filter needs to be in-place to work the carbs properly. With your four carbs/filters, they all need to be mounted properly and free of intake leaks. The canister between the rear cylinders is an oil mist condenser which allows oil to drain back into the engine via a line to the oil filler plug.





The pilot jet, in the jet block, which is the smallest brass passage. It can plug frustratingly-often, if you have trash in the gas tank, like rust, or a dirty gas filter, or contaminated gas. That includdes water in the float bowls, drain the individually into a clear container to expose the presence of any water floating in the gasoline drained from each float bowl. The water forms a 'lens' of different specific gravity from gasoline, easily seen if there is any amount of water present.

The stainless steel wire sticking out of the pilot jet is just there to show sometimes you may need to physically-remove hardened deposits which aren't removed by the ultrasonic bath operation. I use a single strand like this and a finger-vise to carefully remove any hardened deposits.



Here's what it should allow you to see when clean: all the way through the pilot jet.



A diagram of the carburetors. Some of the carb bodies are no-longer available new, from Yamaha.





https://ia800204.us.archive.org/14/...ice-manual/yamahavmaxvmx12-service-manual.pdf

Save a copy of the service manual to your computer and print-out a copy and place the copy in a 3 ring binder for easy shop reference.

These K & L carburetor rebuild kits are found on ebay, and are less-expensive than the OEM parts.



The above kit, labelled as to where the pieces go.



Some threads to help with carburetor work. If the link takes you to a post not at the beginning, I suggest you start at the beginning to ensure that your knowledge base becomes more-complete as you read all the contents. This is not a complete list of all the carburetor posts! There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of those.

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/new-member-looking-for-any-info-i-can-gather.52866/#post-530792

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/carb-tune.51215/#post-515727

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/something-is-heating-up.51864/#post-522866

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/o-ring-and-carb-needles.48940/#post-487970

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/help-help-cylinder-3-not-firing.49065/#post-489443

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/new-owner-of-an-89-vmax.49075/#post-489386

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/make-old-carbs-new-again.46136/#post-467897

 

[gentsvmax]

Hi all,

Since last week im a proud owner of a Vmax '98 with some cool mods.. i will explain more in detail in the 'introduce' section.
The bike starts well, idle is stable but when I open the throttle from the start it stalls.. i have a feeling it doesn't get the required fuel injected.

I also came across this:

I was wondering if my air filters pods are installed correctly by the previous owner. If i compare mine with this video on youtube, (2.58 mark) its different.

See the two pods with tube sticking out on top.

Thanks in advance.

View attachment 94492

firro, welcome! If you become a contributing member, you just got your moneys
worth out of Fire-medics reply alone!

 

[MaxMidnight]

Before tearing into the carbs it would be prudent to do some basic checks first:
The carbs are synchronised
Foat heights are correct
You are getting sufficient fuel into the carbs (check fuel filter)

The breather set-up is correct, the S7 breather has two outlets for crank-case gasses.



First step would be to establish that it has a S7 set-up and all the correct components are in place. You should have the following:





NB: Separate pods need to have the pilot air jet changed. Also DJ jet hole size is different from the same number Mikuni which are smaller.

Assuming you have the correct components then verify your slides are free and the rubber diaphragms are seated properly. See if they try to lift as the throttle is opened.

Only if all the above checks out would I be tempted to dive into the carbs.
http://www.suzukicentral.com/forums/

 

[firro]

Wow guys thanks alot!! i wasnt expecting such detailed responses.. great forum!!

The filter pods are installed correctly? shouldnt the two air pods with the top tube be at the front ?

 

[dannymax]

Are the air correctors installed?

 

[dannymax]

Wow guys thanks alot!! i wasnt expecting such detailed responses.. great forum!!

The filter pods are installed correctly? shouldnt the two air pods with the top tube be at the front ?

Yes, I think that is they way they should be set up.

 

[firro]

Are the air correctors installed?

i would say so.

 

[dannymax]

I don't think the correctors are there...the hole is much smaller...like this....

Yes, after blowing them up yes, your correctors are in.

 

[dannymax]

.

 

[one2dmax]

Yes. The normal install has the air filters with pvc recycle hoses going to the front carb pair. Doesn't matter in the long run just better routing.

 

[firro]

So after troubleshooting the last couple of days im still here with the same issue.

What i have done so far:
- Replaced all four spark plugs, they were almost completely black.
- Drained gas from carbs, was a bit dirty.
- Replaced fuel filter.
- Did oil change
- Peacock method applied, didnt help
- Shotgun method applied, didnt help

- Removed needle to inspect and ensured I have stage 7 DJ needle.

The idle mixture screw were approx. 5 turns out, this is excessive what Ive understood from my research, maybe normal with Stage 7 and aftermarket exhaust?

I turned them all back in during shotgun method and turned them back out three turns.

Also what I notice is that from carb 3 and 4 smoke comes out after starting the bike. Set too rich?

Ill explain more in detail what happens now:
Bike starts with choke on, turn choke slowly off, as soon as I apply throttle you can hear the carbs desire for gas and then it stalls and spews out gas from carb 4 before shutting off.

Im kind of out of ideas now.. any suggestions?

 

[Fire-medic]

Time to remove the carb jet blocks, and give the carburetors an ultrasonic bath. I suspect your pilot jets are plugged, 1 or more. Do research on the threads about cleaning your carbs. The ultrasonic bath pays for itself. Take lots of pictures & notes to avoid mistakes.

The float levels are probably off on 1 or more carbs.Again do your learning about the setting of the carbs by reading about how to set the carbs' float levels. Once they're clean, you need to properly remount them to avoid air leaks and then synchronize them.

 

[firro]

Ok so i have taken out the carbs for ultrasonic cleaning. However upon inspecting the intake manifold seals i noticed that some of them had cracks in them. Best to replace obviously, my question is as follows;

Has anyone experience with the Aftermarket seals? The OEM seals are just so expensive. 35 euros each. Whilst the aftermarket seals cost 50% less

link to aftermarket seals: https://www.amazon.com/Rubber-Intake-Manifold-Carburetor-1985-2007/dp/B08N6R5PPT#customerReviews

1FK-13595-01-00 and is the part number.

 

[Fire-medic]

In my experience, aftermarket donuts for the intake track are OK.

The donuts can often get surface cracks in them, while still being solid-enough to maintain their sealing and structural integrity. As a cosmetic matter, you can see fissures/cracks in the rubber, but they still seal well-enough to NOT cause a problem in the intake side of the breathing system. You could try cleaning the rubber with something like carb cleaner spray or acetone on a clean rag, or in a spray can, to clean-up the area where they are cracked, and then use something like liquid rubber to fill-in the cracks.

The way people test for 'are they cracked-through to cause an air leak?' is to use starting fluid, and with the engine running, spray all-over the donuts one at a time, and see if you can get the engine to increase in RPM as you spray there. The ether/starting fluid penetrating a through the rubber donut causes the engine to rev higher until the ether/starting fluid is all-gone, then the RPM's drop. Replace that donut!

Some people use a hose on a propane bottle, 'flooding' the area of the donut, each in-turn, with the release of propane to also cause a rise in RPM. Do this only outside! It's always a good idea to have a 10 lb (or two!) ABC dry chemical fire extinguisher close-by in case of a fire. That extinguisher could save your house and or motorcycle, if a fire starts.

Be aware there is a thin O-ring below the VBoost aluminum manifold for each intake, and they can also go bad, I've had it happen to me. The same way to diagnose where the leak is, with the starting fluid/ether, or propane. SInce you're going to have to remove the VBoost manifold from all four cylinders, replace all-4 O-rings (#7 in the fiche).

https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/yam/50045c0ef8700209bc7942f2/intake



Note that some of the intake parts are no-longer available from Yamaha, like the cable (#14) or the aluminum/steel butterfly assembly (#12). Use caution when working with these!

 

[firro]

In my experience, aftermarket donuts for the intake track are OK.

The donuts can often get surface cracks in them, while still being solid-enough to maintain their sealing and structural integrity. As a cosmetic matter, you can see fissures/cracks in the rubber, but they still seal well-enough to NOT cause a problem in the intake side of the breathing system. You could try cleaning the rubber with something like carb cleaner spray or acetone on a clean rag, or in a spray can, to clean-up the area where they are cracked, and then use something like liquid rubber to fill-in the cracks.

The way people test for 'are they cracked-through to cause an air leak?' is to use starting fluid, and with the engine running, spray all-over the donuts one at a time, and see if you can get the engine to increase in RPM as you spray there. The ether/starting fluid penetrating a through the rubber donut causes the engine to rev higher until the ether/starting fluid is all-gone, then the RPM's drop. Replace that donut!

Some people use a hose on a propane bottle, 'flooding' the area of the donut, each in-turn, with the release of propane to also cause a rise in RPM. Do this only outside! It's always a good idea to have a 10 lb (or two!) ABC dry chemical fire extinguisher close-by in case of a fire. That extinguisher could save your house and or motorcycle, if a fire starts.

Be aware there is a thin O-ring below the VBoost aluminum manifold for each intake, and they can also go bad, I've had it happen to me. The same way to diagnose where the leak is, with the starting fluid/ether, or propane. SInce you're going to have to remove the VBoost manifold from all four cylinders, replace all-4 O-rings (#7 in the fiche).

https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/yam/50045c0ef8700209bc7942f2/intake

View attachment 94728

Note that some of the intake parts are no-longer available from Yamaha, like the cable (#14) or the aluminum/steel butterfly assembly (#12). Use caution when working with these!

Thanks for the tip! I will be carefull with the mentioned parts.
im also wondering if the vboost o-rings have alternative numbers; 93210-45578 or if someone happen to know if there are aftermarket o-ring that fits in here?
I live in the EU and I refuse to pay 60 euros for simple OEM o-rings


you guys in the US are so lucky with Partzilla.. im jealous

 

[firro]

here again with another question, while im waiting for my ultrasonic cleaner i did further inspection; i notice that the floatheight is quite off when i compare it to @Fire-medic 's first post in this thread.

here is video ive uploaded.. the gap is 35mm .. does this mean its too lean? Or is it meant to be like this with DJ Stage 7?