09 Vmax Purchasers read this!

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maxout1200

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If you are a new 09 Vmax owner and like to be called stupid then check out the article written by John from RmSportmax on the VMOA web site entitled "STILL more questions than answers....about the New VMAX"

Let me know what you think!

I mean the guy has some ligitimate questions for yamaha. But calling everyone stupid that has purchased a 09 Vmax and blaming us for letting Yamaha get away with over pricing the bike....... Thats just not good for business, especially if RMSM should eventually try to cash in and make some aftermarket parts for the 09 Vmax sometime in the future.
 
His post was alot of hot air. All he cares about is top speed. I would even sit on something as ugly as a B-king for one. But using them in comparsion is like comparing a 69 Chevelle to a Subaru WRX.

I summary, he cant afford a new Max, and has Max envy...
 
First off, I think you need re-read the part where you think John called you stupid. His meaning was "stupid money", ya know too much for what you are getting.

I don't always agree with John and his customer service does lack at times, but in this case he has some very valid points. For what you get the bike is overweight, overpriced, and underpowered, comparitively speaking. How many have shelled out a bunch of money for the bike will now go out and buy the "race" ECU and exhaust that Yamaha will have out shortly? Tack on another $3-5k there. All those carbon fibre goodies........$5k. I am sure that you can see where this all starts to add up really fast. Yamaha had the opportunity to put this bike out there at a reasonable cost, and they chose not to. What they should have done is what most other manufacturers do, offer a couple of "levels" of bike. The base model at about $13k (current model) and the "R" model at the $18k price with the ECU and exhaust installed. Give folks some options on the amount they want to spend and I would be willing to bet that they would sell out their run for the year.

Now don't get me wrong, I think that the bike looks great, will probably handle good, and folks will be more than happy with it, I just can't reconcile the overall value of what I would be getting for my money. I will definately be borrowing one of my buddies 09 for some comparison testing against Snowmax, and you never know I may decide to add it to the stable some day in the future.
 
Vmaxrider,

I've reread it several times and it keeps coming back to the same thing stupid money = stupid purchaser. Dis-service to fellow vmaxers = traitors in the ranks.

I would challenge anyone to take a first generation vmax and build it into something comparable to the 2nd generation for under $18,000. You will never come close to recovering your investment if you decide to it sell down the road. Look at the custom maxes on ebay that say 35K invested and end up selling for 12-K.

I do agree that the bike is probably overpriced! But over priced compared to what? Suzuki, Harley, Ducati?

Factory accessories (yeah) way over priced. I won't be buying any. There will be plenty of aftermarket stuff comming out soon enough at a reasonable cost and what I can't buy I will fabricate.

$ for $ the Vmax will never be as fast as a Busa they are two completely different bikes. The Jury is still out on the B-King!
 
While I disagree with the stupid money = stupid people thing, you are correct where John should not have singled out 09 purchasers as doing a disservice to other Vmaxxers. I could infer several things from that statement, but it would be pure supposition on my part.

As for overpricing, it more has to do with a cost/return analysis. What do I get for my $$$. There is nothing revolutionary with the 09, some evolutionary things, and a lot of off the shelf technology (read: R1 tech). I agree that it is difficult to compare it to a Busa, ZX14, etc. due to being a different style of bike. The point is you can get 2 high performance bikes of different types for the cost of 1 09 Max.

You are correct that it takes $$$ to bring a Gen 1 up to the standard of the Gen 2, but it can be done for $18k counting purchase of a 90's vintage. My take is that I have upgraded my Gen 1 to do what I want and to have a Max that is unlike the one next door so to speak. I would bet that 90% of those who, like myself, have put a lot of time, money, and effort into our bikes have no intent to sell regardless of price. You don't modify your bike to sell because, as you said, you would lose your arse cost wise.

With the limited production run and the economy I wouldn't hang my hat on a lot of aftermarket accessories being offered, and those that are will be pricey. With 4 ECU's, fly by wire throttle, et. al. any mods for performance will cost a bundle, no matter who makes them. Bodywork will be out there, but even Gen 1 bodywork is spendy, and there are a hell of a lot more of them out there.

Of course all of this is just my opinion, no more, no less. I look forward to getting a chance to take a ride on my friends 09 just to see how it does.
 
I would challenge anyone to take a first generation vmax and build it into something comparable to the 2nd generation for under $18,000. You will never come close to recovering your investment if you decide to it sell down the road. Look at the custom maxes on ebay that say 35K invested and end up selling for 12-K.

OTOH, any new vehicle is a "bad investment" in the sense that you will not recover your original investment price in it. The second an 09 leaves the dealership showroom, you would not be able to sell it privately for the same price.

$ for $ the Vmax will never be as fast as a Busa they are two completely different bikes. The Jury is still out on the B-King!

Considering the B-King is a naked Busa, I don't understand the "jury is still out" comment.
 
What isnt overpriced today. I think anyone who pays $70k for a cadillac Escalade (a leather suburban) is not only stupid, but an as.....Ah I better not. To each his own. many HOG owners have $50k pumped into their rides, so this whole debate is really unimportant.
 
Not to mention the fact the cheapest rod on the showroom floor of Orange County Choppers is $32k. A jackhammer on wheels.
 
Any "it's over-priced" comments are usually made by those un-able to drop the required funds to make the purchase. Are the $32,000 90HP 700lb H-D Screamin' Eagle versions over-priced? I think yes, people who purchase them? No. Look at the Victory Hammer S and compare it to the New Max. The Hammer doesn't possibly come close to the Max in any comparison (88whp and 700lbs, c'mon give me a f^&kin' break!), yet the Hammer costs $600 more! Is the New Max a steal compared to the Hammer S and H-D's SE series for those looking for a 'muscle cruiser', Hell yeah! The 'status symbol' of the Hammer and H-D SE doesn't come into play here. Roll up to bike night with a Hammer or H-D SE and nobody cares. Roll up on a New Max and the number of people sh^&ting themselves would set a new world record.

I read John's rant on the VMOA and he always returns to $$. John is upset because he, like many of us (including myself) was Uber! excited about the new Max and wanted one, but was quickly disappointed to find out that it was out of reach financially. In anger we spout off saying its a POS, its too heavy, not enough HP, whatever (see old man's comment on the Yahoo forums...tool), when the real complaint is "I can't afford it" or "I don't want to pay that much", and they just don't want to admit that its financially unacceptable for them.

If the bike was $12,000 do you really think that anyone would be complaining about the weight (beside those who wouldn't/couldn't pay the $12,000)?

If John wants to make an ass of himself, so be it...
 
Any "it's over-priced" comments are usually made by those un-able to drop the required funds to make the purchase. Are the $32,000 90HP 700lb H-D Screamin' Eagle versions over-priced? I think yes, people who purchase them? No. Look at the Victory Hammer S and compare it to the New Max. The Hammer doesn't possibly come close to the Max in any comparison (88whp and 700lbs, c'mon give me a f^&kin' break!), yet the Hammer costs $600 more! Is the New Max a steal compared to the Hammer S and H-D's SE series for those looking for a 'muscle cruiser', Hell yeah! The 'status symbol' of the Hammer and H-D SE doesn't come into play here. Roll up to bike night with a Hammer or H-D SE and nobody cares. Roll up on a New Max and the number of people sh^&ting themselves would set a new world record.

I read John's rant on the VMOA and he always returns to $$. John is upset because he, like many of us (including myself) was Uber! excited about the new Max and wanted one, but was quickly disappointed to find out that it was out of reach financially. In anger we spout off saying its a POS, its too heavy, not enough HP, whatever (see old man's comment on the Yahoo forums...tool), when the real complaint is "I can't afford it" or "I don't want to pay that much", and they just don't want to admit that its financially unacceptable for them.

If the bike was $12,000 do you really think that anyone would be complaining about the weight (beside those who wouldn't/couldn't pay the $12,000)?

If John wants to make an ass of himself, so be it...

Sorry, but the "you don't like it because you can't afford it" argument is the stupidest, lamest defense of the 09 VMax that I have seen circulating all over the Yahoo lists. Those that hold on to that defense are closed minded to those that point out what they don't like about the bike. There is a thing called "value for your money". Is any bike worth $17 or 18k out the door? Guys drop a bundle on the Hammer (which I don't know how you can classify that bike in the same class as the VMax) because they want a "status" bike. If you buy a new VMax as a status bike, then fine, but those that defend the price because it is the "best bike for the money" are off base. ... IMO.
 
The engineering involved in the bike has spanned almost 10 years. When that much R&D goes into something, u pay for it. It is what it is. only 2500 are being made. It is limited. If u want to spend $14g instead, go buy a Chevy Aveo...Most people who bitch about CANT afford it. If u dont think thats true, so be it. Are some gonna refuse to buy it because of price even though they have the money? VERY FEW.
 
Sorry, but the "you don't like it because you can't afford it" argument is the stupidest, lamest defense of the 09 VMax that I have seen circulating all over the Yahoo lists. Those that hold on to that defense are closed minded to those that point out what they don't like about the bike. There is a thing called "value for your money". Is any bike worth $17 or 18k out the door? Guys drop a bundle on the Hammer (which I don't know how you can classify that bike in the same class as the VMax) because they want a "status" bike. If you buy a new VMax as a status bike, then fine, but those that defend the price because it is the "best bike for the money" are off base. ... IMO.

I think that you mis-read my post. I like the New Max, I think its dandy, but out of my league money wise, as it is with alot of people. Is it the 'best bike for the money', No and I have not heard anyone claim otherwise. Besides the 'best bike for the money' is an opinion, not a fact. Its all about what YOU want, and are willing to pay. Is any bike worth 18 grand? It depends on the buyer. To some out there the New Max is worth every penny, even if it isn't the 'Best bang for the buck'. Hell if everyone on this board was to purchase the 'best bang for the buck' regarding bikes, most of us would posting on the FZ-1 or 'Busa forums right now (I like my V-Max, but that FZ-1 is something else, comfy ergos, power and handling). The first Gen Max certainly wasn't the 'best bang' when I was looking, but it is what I chose to spend my cash on. I made this purchase based on Heart and Desire NOT performance specs. (I still sit on any used FZ-1 I see...and wonder what it would have been like).

As a side by side comparison the Hammer S, H-D SE models and the V-Max are all classified by their manufacturers as 'performance or muscle cruisers' (Victory formally classifies the Hammer as a Muscle Cruiser). The V-Max is a muscle cruiser, so comparing the three bikes for value sake is a legitimate comparison.
 
Compared to what??

Compared to all other large-capacity Japanese bikes really.. Ok if you buy a GoldWing it's a different ballgame, but all the sport / tourer/ naked bikes of 1000+cc made by the four Jap makes are usually around half the price of the new Vmax.

It's simple, Yamaha did their homework and worked out how much most people would be happy to spend to be in this semi exclusive club. If they sell out they'll be making more, it'll become less exclusive and the price will drop. Just like the iPhone - the first to get them pay a premium.
 
You are correct that it takes $$$ to bring a Gen 1 up to the standard of the Gen 2, but it can be done for $18k counting purchase of a 90's vintage. My take is that I have upgraded my Gen 1 to do what I want and to have a Max that is unlike the one next door so to speak. I would bet that 90% of those who, like myself, have put a lot of time, money, and effort into our bikes have no intent to sell regardless of price.

I agree with the never selling, I have $20,000 in a bike I only paid $5200 for.

Stupid? maybe, but to me it aint any different than dumping money on vacations and holidays except I get a continual return out of it in pleasure.

As for bringing a gen 1 up to gen 2 standards?

Can't be done, I've ridden the the new one (see my demo rides post) and you will never get an old max to handle, stop, or corner like the new one no matter how much money you spend because of the frame the old one is wrapped in.

My bike is the best handling old vmax I have ever ridden, except for upside down front I've done everything that can be done to make it right that I know to do, I love the shit out of it in the twisties.....

But in all honesty the 20 mile test ride on the new Vmax showed me that it'd be about the same challenge as making an old vmax handle as well as a Busa........


As for making an old one as fast as the new one?

...thats not going to happen either on a streetable, reliable bike without forced induction........and we all know how expensive and unreliable that has proven to be... ....

I've ridden a couple of Vmaxes here locally that ran the PCW 1500 engines with Flatslides on which I personally saw the dyno sheet where they were putting 170-172RWHP down,.......
My perception, having ridden both, is that they won't even come close to holding a candle to this new bike........especially not when reliability is taken into consideration......

I too am dissapointed at the weight of the thing, but once you throw a leg over it you'd never know it weighs what it does, it's light years lighter "feeling" than the old one.......The torque this thing has is just unbelievable......


I'm all for modding the hell out of the Max, but after riding the new one, I do not think the asking price is too much for a new bike with what it offers...

And like it or not, there IS a premium being charged for the "Vmax Mystique"....

otherwise they could have wrapped it in a Busa like clothing, called it a R17, and charged $13500.00 for it.....

But no one would look twice at it, gather around, or talk about how effin cool it was, and there is a premium for that, especially when it's packaged with this kind of performance...
Crap; H-D charges a premium just for the image alone and doesn't even bother to throw in any performance, so who's the bigger sucker out there........


And while were on the subject, I can't believe these hotshit vendors, and I mean ALL the usual suspects, didn't order one immediately, because like it not, it's coming and they are going to have to service this segment, or suck hind tit when a brand new vendor comes along for the Gen 2 market alone.

Nor can I believe the vendor dissed it in "the over the top" degree before over throwing a leg over it........

In terms of pure performance of course it's not the best bang for the buck, measured by those terms of shear performance versus the dollor the Busa and ZX14 or the ONLY two candidates in that category....

My geuss is that those that think the Max isn't worth the money are those who are more hooked on performance than they are the Vmax name, and willing to go elsewhere to get that performance if it can be had cheaper,,,

Those (like me) that think it's worth every penny are more probably more hooked on the fact that it a Vmax and simply glad it didn't embarras us with the performance numbers...
....and trust me, it won't, with the torque it has, stoplight to stoplight it's going to be a monster, I wasn't kidding when I said it'll light up the rear tire even at 50mph if you really ask it too...
 
The engineering involved in the bike has spanned almost 10 years. When that much R&D goes into something, u pay for it. It is what it is. only 2500 are being made. It is limited. If u want to spend $14g instead, go buy a Chevy Aveo...Most people who bitch about CANT afford it. If u dont think thats true, so be it. Are some gonna refuse to buy it because of price even though they have the money? VERY FEW.

"That much much R&D"! Most of the bike is from their parts bin, mostly from the R1 bin and some from the FJR. As for the "limited" run of 2500... they got 2500 based on the average number of sales of 1st Gen sales. And yes some are going to refuse to buy it even though they have the money because they don't believe they are getting a good value for their money.
 
"That much much R&D"! Most of the bike is from their parts bin, mostly from the R1 bin and some from the FJR. QUOTE]

I have to disagree. While the V-Max uses some of the same tech as the R1, I did not see any parts from the R1 or the FJR when I spent the 30 minutes examining it myself. From what I have seen the New Max is 99% new from the ground up. Forks, engine, frame, rear drivetrain, body work, wheels, lighting, exhaust, and every major part are all exclusive to the Max. Bolts, mirrors, wires, and other small pieces does not make a parts bin bike.
 
And yes some are going to refuse to buy it even though they have the money because they don't believe they are getting a good value for their money.

Yep. And that mentality is exactly why some people have the money to buy one, but refuse.

A wise man once told me, "You can't judge a man's finances by the car he drives." Not too big a leap to apply it to bikes, too.
 
"That much much R&D"! Most of the bike is from their parts bin, mostly from the R1 bin and some from the FJR. QUOTE]

I have to disagree. While the V-Max uses some of the same tech as the R1, I did not see any parts from the R1 or the FJR when I spent the 30 minutes examining it myself. From what I have seen the New Max is 99% new from the ground up. Forks, engine, frame, rear drivetrain, body work, wheels, lighting, exhaust, and every major part are all exclusive to the Max. Bolts, mirrors, wires, and other small pieces does not make a parts bin bike.

Lemme give you a rundown on the parts bin parts for you:

1) Front end is made up of primarily 08 R1 parts turned right side up (stand on your head if you can't see it:biglaugh:)
2) Throttle bodies R1
3) Intake system R1
4) rear suspension FJR1300
5) primary ECU R1
6) front headlight FZ6N from Europe
7) ABS system from the FJR1300

Could go on, but it really doesnt matter. Those who think that the 09 is the cat's ass will not agree and those of us that could care less won't change our minds either. I am sick of hearing those that bought one tell us who didn't how we must not have the $$$ to buy one or that we are constantly bashing those who do.
 
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