Need advice....

[gamorg02]

So I need some advice here...

Basically went to install my new galfer wavy rotor last night (something that SHOULD be easy) and ran into a whole fuckload of problems....

I got the rotor off easy enough, but noticed one bolt was a little tough, didn't think much of it. Once i got everything back together i was tightening up the last bolt and pop the allen head slipped (completely to spec, around 17 ft lbs) i had completely rounded the hole. Got my easy out and ended up getting it out with a lot of work, my 19.2V drill couldn't do it needed a socket and a breaker bar (B/C THE LOCTITE STARTED TO SET!!). also noticed another one (the one that was tight before) had started to strip, so i was able to get it out, and then noticed that bolt was going in crooked. ugh, look at the hole and the bolt hole is bigger on top so the bottom of the bolt points toward the center of the wheel.:bang head::bang head:

i ended up going to the store (incase anyone is wondering its impossible to find these bolts, but i found similar stuff with a m8x1.25 thread) and got a couple replacement bolts to try out before i replaced them all.

the first bolt that i needed the easyout for went back in easily. all good. the angled one is now an issue b/c it looks like not only is the bolt at an angle, but the outside edge of the ledge the rotor sits on is slightly dipped so as u tighten down the bolt it bends the rotor slightly. not good (although i think i now know whey i heard a slight slight brake noise every rotation on the bike when moving very slowly and near buildings so the noise could echo.)

and so i finally tighten down the bolt I have on the angled hole, which was basically an inverted (the type in picture 3) and that limited the amount of bending the rotor does as its not pressing it down onto the ledge.

So then i finally pick up the tire and the shaft drive spine falls out on the OTHER SIDE!! looks like i'm missing part #13 on the pic below.. ugh... so i put it back on and start pushing the tire over to the bike and hear a NEW metal noise in the hub of the wheel. Sounds like one of the metal collars that the pegs of the spline fit into on the inside of the rubber damper fell into the hub. i think some guys have said this can happen time to time, esp if they rust (and my bike sat for a few years so its possible). not sure anything else could have fallen in there in this short amount of time and it makes sense that one of those fell if i kept fiddling with the spline as a couple of the pegs had the collar on them and i could have pushed one into the hub..


and so after all that was up until 1am in the carport fiddling with this shit. ended up putting new pads for the rotor (hadn't been able to bleed yet) and also found out my rear reservoir cap is cracked..:bang head: someone had put like a plastic sticker on it to hold the crack from expanding, but i dont' t hink its hurting anything as its just there to seal the gasket. still going to get a new one tho...

so after my epic tale, i have a few questions hopefully you guys can help with..

1. part number 13 on the diagram, i assume isn't integral to bike funcationality but is to hold it in place while doing maintenance? i may have been riding without it this whole time. i'll order one but i shouldnt' have to worry about it eh?

2. fixing the hole on that one rotor bolt seems like an epic amount of work. i'd have to drill it out and use a helicoil as the rotor bolt hole can't get any bigger as the rotor hole is only 8mm. i was thinking of putting something like (picture 1 attached) in there to keep the threads good. are all 6 bolts needed or would 5 be sufficient? i don't want to risk drilling the wheel and doing more damage...

3. one good thing came about this, i got a 8mm washer that fits perfectly in the rotor recess and put a normal hex bolt in and really like the look. any reason i can't replace all of them with the hex bolts and a washer (except the busted one obviously)?

4. does the metal noise make sense it is one of those collars? i had a noise previously, but it was much lighter/quiter metal on metal and i think it was just some metal shavings from where the guy who p/c had to drill out a couple bolts. if its one of those collars its not going to hurt anything right?

5. is the rear reservour cap causing an issue? it needs to be replaced but its just there to ensure the gasket seals right?


thanks in advance....

:bang head::bang head::bang head::bang head::bang head::bang head::bang head::bang head::bang head::bang head::damn angry::damn angry:

 

[4gasem]

I run without 13 on my wheel. Did you try cleaning the threads with a bottoming tap? I would run stock screws or screws that are at least rated to the same spec as the stock ones.

Chris

 

[gamorg02]

thanks chris. nah i hadn't tried b/c the bolt threads in pretty easily, but goes in at an angle b/c at the top of that ledge, it dips slightly outward and part of the threaded hole is elongated that way. so even if it sat true, i think it would press the rotor down.

i think the hex hed bolts are 8/8. i gotta imagine they are at least as strong as the ones that were in there that stripped out, ya know?

 

[dannymax]

Garrett, I have some allen head SS bolts that will fit those holes...they're a little shorter than OEM but will prolly work, and certainly have the strength.

Not 100% sure here....are you saying the shoulder that the rotor rests on was not machined flat with the others on the wheel? And that the bolt hole was drilled at an angle because of this?

 

[gamorg02]

Garrett, I have some allen head SS bolts that will fit those holes...they're a little shorter than OEM but will prolly work, and certainly have the strength.

thanks danny! i appreciate the offer, but i bet the ones at my local HW store would work fine eh? i think they're at least the strenght of OEM. plus i mean these are only going in at 20 ft lbs.. thoughts?

Not 100% sure here....are you saying the shoulder that the rotor rests on was not machined flat with the others on the wheel? And that the bolt hole was drilled at an angle because of this?

i have no idea if it was a product of the machining of the wheel, or when the rotor bolt got stuck, or anything else. but the hole for the bolt does seem to angle at about the same of which the ledge is sitting at. the top of the hole is elongated toward the outside of the ledge. its pretty minimal, but the rotor being pressed against it brings it to life.

 

[dannymax]

thanks danny! i appreciate the offer, but i bet the ones at my local HW store would work fine eh? i think they're at least the strenght of OEM. plus i mean these are only going in at 20 ft lbs.. thoughts?

I don't think it's a matter of the torque pressure as it is the pressure exerted under heavy braking...lateral or thrust pressure I think.



i have no idea if it was a product of the machining of the wheel, or when the rotor bolt got stuck, or anything else. but the hole for the bolt does seem to angle at about the same of which the ledge is sitting at. the top of the hole is elongated toward the outside of the ledge. its pretty minimal, but the rotor being pressed against it brings it to life.

This seems really odd as all those surfaces are machined at the same time, prolly with a boring mill....they have to ALL be flat or ALL be angled the same. Are you sure there aren't burrs or something else there that's causing the rotor to flex?

As for the bolt hole itself...I'd drill that hole out just enough to clean out the bad threads and tap new ones...drill the rotor hole slightly also, if needed. Go just enough over stock to clean the threads....I wouldn't helicoil. All this on a drill press obviously!! I have one if you're stuck.

Jedi would be a great resource here.

 

[yukonerdave]

Can't help w/ your questions but I just wanted to let you know that I sympathize with (at least the first half) of your problems. I was up until midnight last night drilling our two of the rotor bolts that stripped as I was trying to remove them! Finally got the front rotors replaced and all 3 sets of pads. I now have EBC HH's and they're awesome. I ended up using some hex bolts from the hardware store to replace the ones I had to drill, but I ordered three of the stock bolts from BikeBandit to keep them all the same. Cost me $20 with shipping! Ouch. Ah well. Good luck with everything.

 

[4gasem]

Remember to use ONLY blue loc-tite as well. Red will pull the threads out later.

 

[gamorg02]

This seems really odd as all those surfaces are machined at the same time, prolly with a boring mill....they have to ALL be flat or ALL be angled the same. Are you sure there aren't burrs or something else there that's causing the rotor to flex?

As for the bolt hole itself...I'd drill that hole out just enough to clean out the bad threads and tap new ones...drill the rotor hole slightly also, if needed. Go just enough over stock to clean the threads....I wouldn't helicoil. All this on a drill press obviously!! I have one if you're stuck.

Jedi would be a great resource here.

i'll check danny about burrs... and take some pictures tonight that ought to clear up what i mean. if there are no burrs i'm afraid there would be no point to drilling out the hole properly as it will cause the rotor to rest downward on the ledge. i don't think it was done at the time the wheel was machined but either by the PO or the shop when they took the bolt out the first time. i'm gonna have to remove the wheel anyways to redo the bolts. i'll get some high quality ones. i do like the look of the hex ones better...

i appreciate the help danny!

Can't help w/ your questions but I just wanted to let you know that I sympathize with (at least the first half) of your problems. I was up until midnight last night drilling our two of the rotor bolts that stripped as I was trying to remove them! Finally got the front rotors replaced and all 3 sets of pads. I now have EBC HH's and they're awesome. I ended up using some hex bolts from the hardware store to replace the ones I had to drill, but I ordered three of the stock bolts from BikeBandit to keep them all the same. Cost me $20 with shipping! Ouch. Ah well. Good luck with everything.

haha yea fun shit eh? try boats.net next time ro something else... 3 bolts shouldnt' be that much! local dealer can get the bolts too and u could go pick 'em up.. i know BB charges $8 to ship no matter what except gift cards...

Remember to use ONLY blue loc-tite as well. Red will pull the threads out later.

def chris. if i had red loctite on there i'd be in trouble. i hate that blue loctite comes in a red container that says 'blue'....

 

[dannymax]

I have no idea why Yomama uses the shit allen head bolts that they use on the rotors, they're a bitch to get off. I've had some luck pounding in an SAE wrench think it's 1/4", after the metric wrench rounds out the hole. Usually that'll work.

Best thing to do is, if you're lucky enough to get the stockers out, throw them the hell away and get some decent SS ones...either allen or hex head will work fine as long as you have the washer under the hex head.

 

[gamorg02]

I have no idea why Yomama uses the shit allen head bolts that they use on the rotors, they're a bitch to get off. I've had some luck pounding in an SAE wrench think it's 1/4", after the metric wrench rounds out the hole. Usually that'll work.

Best thing to do is, if you're lucky enough to get the stockers out, throw them the hell away and get some decent SS ones...either allen or hex head will work fine as long as you have the washer under the hex head.

SS hex head it will probably be. the local ace hardware has a great selection, will be heading over after work since yesterday they closed @ 8 and i ran into trouble @ 8:02. will take some pics as well if i can get it zoomed right


Anyone have any idea on the metal noise? being one of those collars?

 

[one2dmax]

1 - the snap ring probably doesn't do a lot once the assembly is stacked up. I would still get one on there.

2 - 5 would probably hold the rotor in place but if you can retap the hole square it will be better then no bolt in place.

3 - washer is ok but will not work for most due to clearance of the heads of the bolts.

4 - the noise could be a number of things.

5 - the rear cap simply holds the fluid in and seal in place.


These bolts are very soft headed and are hard to get out sometimes. I use an impact driver (manual) to break them loose first. hold the driver in the neutral position and whack it a few good hits. Then you can break it loose with the normal loosen position. Once loose you can switch over to the normal impact of ratchet. If the heads strip out just get an easy out that fits the hole and remove it that way. Sometimes you have to sand one down so it fits snugly in the hole.

I do believe they are metric 12.9 bolts so not your average stuff.

Sean Morley

 

[gamorg02]

1 - the snap ring probably doesn't do a lot once the assembly is stacked up. I would still get one on there.

2 - 5 would probably hold the rotor in place but if you can retap the hole square it will be better then no bolt in place.

3 - washer is ok but will not work for most due to clearance of the heads of the bolts.

4 - the noise could be a number of things.

5 - the rear cap simply holds the fluid in and seal in place.


These bolts are very soft headed and are hard to get out sometimes. I use an impact driver (manual) to break them loose first. hold the driver in the neutral position and whack it a few good hits. Then you can break it loose with the normal loosen position. Once loose you can switch over to the normal impact of ratchet. If the heads strip out just get an easy out that fits the hole and remove it that way. Sometimes you have to sand one down so it fits snugly in the hole.

I do believe they are metric 12.9 bolts so not your average stuff.

Sean Morley

Sean, thanks a bunch!

i actually stripped the allen heads putting them BACK IN and tightening them to spec! it was only 17 ft lbs... seems kinda crazy.. they all loosened just fine.

i'll see if the local yama place has any instock and take a look at what they have at the HW store...

i will have to see if what i think about the ledge the rotor sits on is true, if so , even if i re-tap i don't think it would help.

i wouldnt' want to put hex head bolts on the front, no clearance but on the rear there is a lot more, i checked and there are no issues.

yea the noise i think is just one of those spacers.. getting it out doesn't sound fun, i don't think it would cause a problem in there....

 

[one2dmax]

Shouldn't hurt much of anything. With the bearings out you can get into the center with a magnet easily enough.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

Shouldn't hurt much of anything. With the bearings out you can get into the center with a magnet easily enough.

Sean

thansk sean.. i'll keep it in mind, pulling bearings is something i've never done, so i'm def not willing to jump right into it...

 

[gamorg02]

ok so i found 4/6 collars in my wheel hub! i think that was the noise along with some metal shavings from having to drill some things out and possible the P/Cing...

new question. i also found this in my hub. please please please don't tell me its a bearing part... looks like it could be from the spline side (i believe thats called needle bearing). there is NO rough spots on the bearing. so hopefully i'm just being anal. had someone else confirm no rough spots as well. hopefully its just a pin or something odd that got caught in ther ein the coaters.. anyways let me know...

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8633/sdc12620l.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7322/sdc12619.jpg

 

[gamorg02]

so i was torquing the hex nuts i got to spec and one fucking striped out!!!! ugh.. fuck. off to autozone to get an 8mm thread repair kit

 

[Buster Hymen]

ok so i found 4/6 collars in my wheel hub! i think that was the noise along with some metal shavings from having to drill some things out and possible the P/Cing...

new question. i also found this in my hub. please please please don't tell me its a bearing part... looks like it could be from the spline side (i believe thats called needle bearing). there is NO rough spots on the bearing. so hopefully i'm just being anal. had someone else confirm no rough spots as well. hopefully its just a pin or something odd that got caught in ther ein the coaters.. anyways let me know...

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8633/sdc12620l.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7322/sdc12619.jpg

I don't believe it is a bearing part but I can't figure out what it is.

 

[dannymax]

I don't believe it is a bearing part but I can't figure out what it is.

+1 I don't think it's got anything to do with a bearing either....looks more like some kind of 'keeper pin' or a weird shaped key which I suspect may not have anything to do with your back wheel at all.

 

[one2dmax]

I do agree that it is not a part I am used to seeing.

Sean