85 Drag Bike Project

[hubeerjw]

Lankee.... you don't like my clip-ons????
I was messing around in the old garage again today and I am looking at what I am going to do for a fuel tank. I started looking at the faux tank and as it sits pretty close to the turbo, I'm not so sure if my idea is very good or not, but thought it may make for some good discussions. Anyway, do you guys think it would be a good idea to make my faux tank lid into my fuel tank? There would be about an 1" - 2" of clearance with the intake part of the turbo, 3+ inches away from the exhaust side. I did some rough calculations and I think I could probably get close to a gallon in there.

And IF (might be a big IF), but IF I did this, would I still need a fuel pump? I know I would for the nitrous, but I was wondering if gravity would be enough to feed the carb on the bike? I'm guessing not, but wanted to see what others thought. I should have plenty of room back where the stock tank goes, but I think it would be pretty cool to have it up on top. Another down side to it would be that the choke is covered up the the faux lid so it basically has to be off in order to start it. Here are some pics.
Thanks!
Jeff

 

[KJShover]

You'r going to need the pump for the n2o anyway. I've seen a few 8.90-9.00 sec bikes run a gravity setup, A gravity setup would be ok if your line size was sufficient to feed the carbs.

As for tank placement, that turbo is going to get pretty warm there. so if you choose that area for tank placement, your going to have to consider heat shields, possible heat atomization in the tank, etc.., not to mention issues with fuel line placement and protection issues.

 

[Bawls]

I would keep a low fuel tank so that the weight isn't so high on the bike. If it's an all out drag bike, I would also only put a big enough fuel tank on it to make it down into the staging lanes, down the track, and back down the the return road.

Lankee... what's your opinion on this?

 

[KJShover]

I would keep a low fuel tank so that the weight isn't so high on the bike. If it's an all out drag bike, I would also only put a big enough fuel tank on it to make it down into the staging lanes, down the track, and back down the the return road.

Lankee... what's your opinion on this?

Good point, never payed attention to it on any of my dragbikes, but a gal of fuel depending on type and the temperature, weighs between 5.8 and about 6.5lbs.

 

[Birdoprey]

Jeff, you don't wanna run gravity feed with the TURBO. You'll wanna run a fuel pump! Bawls has a good point as well, especially with a bike w/o sissy sticks.

 

[chainednitromaxx]

With that much rake I can't see needing a shimmy shock but I may be wrong.

The trick on a v max with a rake and how it react is not the rack so much but lowering the head bearing is where its at.I got mild rake on mine but my head bearing has been lowered 2" with full chromemoly head unit.No steering damper and it wil not shake at all.Bike been clocked at over 170mph(passed zx doing 170 he said was on his speedo,so figure around 175)Not to mention it handles better even with rake.The lower head bearing is like magic. John May south carolina

 

[KJShover]

The trick on a v max with a rake and how it react is not the rack so much but lowering the head bearing is where its at.I got mild rake on mine but my head bearing has been lowered 2" with full chromemoly head unit.No steering damper and it wil not shake at all.Bike been clocked at over 170mph(passed zx doing 170 he said was on his speedo,so figure around 175)Not to mention it handles better even with rake.The lower head bearing is like magic. John May south carolina

Opps my bad I forgot about the turbo, you'll need the pump for good boost, otherwise your bowls will get sucked dry. A steering damper is a pass the tech inspection item if your bike passes certain specs, not so much handling issues. I've yet to be on a track where it wasn't a requirement at certain speeds or et.

 

[hubeerjw]

My fuel tank:

I'm not sure what I should do with my fuel tank. I'm thinking seriously about turing the faux tank lid into the tank. I mocked up a cardboard tank and it fits pretty well. I have about 3/4 of a gallon as far as volume is concerned, so I should be good there. I have plenty of clearance with the turbo and I am able to keep my coolant overflow tank in place as well. (Actually I need a new overflow tank as mine is cracked, so if anyone has a spare let me know what you want for it.) As far as the cap, I was thinking about this (or something like it) http://cgi.ebay.com/Weld-In-Flush-M...3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:4|65:1|39:1|240:1318

I'm probably going to have to mount my fuel pump back by the swingarm, but this will open up quite a bit of room for me if I can keep it in the faux tank. As I stated earlier, I was wondering if gravity would supply enough fuel to the carb, but it doesn't sound good. Another option I was looking at was making a bowl spacer for the carb so it would hold more fuel. Anyway, here are some pics. Let me know what you think. Also, MadMax told me I only need something like 2lbs of fuel pressure, so most likely I'll need a seperate fuel pump for my NOS right? I have a Holley Red fuel pump (I think it is rated up to 7psi, but I also purchased a low pressure regulator (Holley) so split the fuel line before the regulator and maybe I could run my NOS fuel off the Holley red? What-ca think?

I appreciate everyone's comments. I know I'm not going to break any land speed records, and I want this bike to go as fast a possible, but I'm also trying to make it as "user friendly" as possible when it comes time to trouble-shooting.

Jeff

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Jeff,

Another thing you may want to consider is that.... it's going to get pretty warm under that hood. Drag racers have used cool cans (iced packed cans with coiled aluminum fuel line running through it) for as long as I can remember.

Fuels have come a along way since then, so you see it less and less now a days. Sooo based on that my opinion is keep it under the seat. As far as the pump is concerned I've run the VMAX using a small NOS pump. Hey when you want to ride and your stock pump fails you'll do anything to get it going again : ) So if it's weight your concerned about that might be an option for ya. Personally I like the Holley with the regulator. Although the regulators are less than reliable at 2 PSI.

Just the heat of sitting in the staging lane makes the regulator do strange things. So you want to put a gauge right on the regulator so you can check it and adjust it if neccessary. I hate being at the light's and having everyone pointing at you and the ground. As your VMAX pisses fuel all over the ground.

That S&S Carb won't take much more than 2 PSI. On the subject of fuel you're best off running VP C14 rather than the C16 so called turbo fuel, the octane is too high with the C16. Your not going to run the kinda boost that requires it. Mine always ran better on the 14 @ 17 pounds of boost.​

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Oh and one more thing... put a steering damper on that thing! It's cheap insurance. Buy a cheap one, they work well and your not going to make a lot of turns hopefully : ) Head shake sucks! Why take the chance? If you need help with that. I have some brackets and dampers in a box somewhere you can adapt.

 

[hubeerjw]

Oh and one more thing... put a steering damper on that thing! It's cheap insurance. Buy a cheap one, they work well and your not going to make a lot of turns hopefully : ) Head shake sucks! Why take the chance? If you need help with that. I have some brackets and dampers in a box somewhere you can adapt.

Thanks Gary, I may take you up on that!

As far as the he fuel regulator I got is for 1-4 psi, so I am hoping it will be a little more accurate, than the higher pressure ones, but who knows. I'm in the process of looking for gauges as we speak... things are pricy!!!!

Another thing I wanted to point out with the fuel tank (if located under the faux lid) is that it isn't close to the hot/exhaust side of the turbo. The right side of the frame blocks it and is more in the scoop than under the faux lid. I know the intake side still builds up heat, but I just wanted to bring that up as well.

Thanks again!
Jeff

 

[one2dmax]

The heat shouldn't be all that bad since the intake is cooled by the NOS too.
Sean

 

[TURBOVMAX]

The way I think Mad Max fabed that intake is that he is running NOS thru the manifold to cool the aluminum. Is that correct? If so it's not going to cool anything very much...it's a waste of gas. You can't intercool a draw-thru setup that way. It may cool the compartment if you open the bottle full open to the compartment. But it won't cool the charge! There's simply is not enough surface area for the charge to contact to do that.

If you add NOS between the carb and intake of turbo you will cool the charge. But my experience in doing that just resulted in big time backfires thru the carb and made tuning more of a problem. Not worth the effort. Your running a turbo, you don't need no stinkin gas, save your money.

As far as the heat at the rear of the motor. If you build the tank so that it sit's high enough and make it small. The heat there there will be far less, remember that turbine housing is cast iron. There are cover's you can wrap the turbine housing with to retain that heat. Turbos love heat...the turbo will really starts working when it's under load.

If you want to put the tank under the hood just do it and see what happens it may work fine for you. I like under the seat. If there were ever a fire I would prefer it under my arse and not in my helmet and under my arm pits.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Oh on the gauge just go online or look at a McMaster Carr catalog and pick out a small liquid filled gauge. There's a whole bunch to choose from and their a lot cheaper than the "Race" one's

 

[4gasem]

Hey Jeff,

A lot of Gixxer and SV guys remove the stock shimmy shocks for after market units. You could easily mod one to work on the max if you want to go ultra cheap.

Chris

 

[hubeerjw]

Well, I got new seals and dust covers on the drag bike forks tonight. I didn't add the extra spacer like Gary (turbovmax) recommended yet, but I plan on doing something to stiffen the springs. I also plan on strapping it as he mentioned as well. I already have a strap ready for the beast! I got the new (used) front tire mounted and installed. I'm going ahead with the fuel tank under/in the faux tank lid. I've been on the fence with this decision as well, and I would much rather have a burnt arse than flaming armpits, but I'm going to take my chances. I may try some heat shielding as well. I have worked with a few different types so we'll see what I need.

I did get a price for some gauges, these are off eBay, and I'm afraid I'm going to regret buying them, because I'm a firm believer in "you get what you pay for". Anyway, here is the deal:

$125.00 shipped (ups ground to lower 48 states) for the following:
CW00015 0-15 psi silicone filled gauge, white
5233 2-1/16? Electric Oil Pressure gauge with sender, White
5234 2-1/16? Electric Water Temp gauge with sender, White
5211 2-1/16? Mechanical Boost gauge with tubing kit, white

Any thoughts?

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Well, I got new seals and dust covers on the drag bike forks tonight. I didn't add the extra spacer like Gary (turbovmax) recommended yet, but I plan on doing something to stiffen the springs. I also plan on strapping it as he mentioned as well. I already have a strap ready for the beast! I got the new (used) front tire mounted and installed. I'm going ahead with the fuel tank under/in the faux tank lid. I've been on the fence with this decision as well, and I would much rather have a burnt arse than flaming armpits, but I'm going to take my chances. I may try some heat shielding as well. I have worked with a few different types so we'll see what I need.

I did get a price for some gauges, these are off eBay, and I'm afraid I'm going to regret buying them, because I'm a firm believer in "you get what you pay for". Anyway, here is the deal:

$125.00 shipped (ups ground to lower 48 states) for the following:
CW00015 0-15 psi silicone filled gauge, white
5233 2-1/16? Electric Oil Pressure gauge with sender, White
5234 2-1/16? Electric Water Temp gauge with sender, White
5211 2-1/16? Mechanical Boost gauge with tubing kit, white

Any thoughts?

Sounds like a good deal... The boost gauge is silicone filled? Only reason I ask is...your bike is going to backfire at some point. During a shift (too much kill on the air shifter etc..) and when that happens the boost gauge gets pinned. The best luck I've had is using a good industrial liquid filled gauge. You may also want to put a tell tale on that boost gauge. All it does is trap the max boost on the gauge so you know at the end of the run how much boost you actually achieved. Mr Turbo sells a nice setup but it is pricey. Your not going to looking at the gauge during the run I hope : )

 

[4gasem]

I've seen with sport bikes, guys will cut out the progressive part of the spring and put in a pvc tube to take up the space. It reduces weight and stiffens up the front end by removing the weak progressive part.

Just a thought.

 

[hubeerjw]

I've been spending a little time on Abes bike, but I have also been working on the drag bike as well. I recently purchased a M&H 26.0/6.0/15 drag slick for this bike. I noticed that the sidewalls were much more rounded than the Frestone slick (now Phoenix slick) that I got from Morley. I knew right away that I was going to need to notch the swingarm. I read the following post on how Lankee was able to use this tire, so I thought I would give it a shot: http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=3436&highlight=drag+slick

I got it mounted, I got the swingarm notched (and I knew I was pushing the limits with the notching) and it was time to mount the tire and swingarm in the bike. I was able to get the tire in the swingarm, so I was happy, I had a tiny bit of clearance without doing the washer swap, so I'm feeling good. I try to get the swingarm in and no dice! The driveshaft will not go in! It is hitting the plate that covers the notch!!!!!!!! :bang head::bang head::bang head:

I remember reading how Lankee said it would hit the driveshaft.... and then the lightbulb lit up.... Lankee never put a cover plate on the notch job he did... he just left it open so you could see the driveshaft.... I remember cause it broke in half a while back. So now, I'm screwed. I have a new tire I can't really use, I had my swingarm notched (too far, I might add) and will need to get that fixed at some point, and I spent about 5 hours on this that I could have spent on Abes bike. There is a small chance I'll be able to use this setup, but what a pain in the arse! I should have gone with the Phoenix slick and everything would have been fine.

I'm now thinking that I want to go to a chain drive. I think there are a few different options out there, and just wanted to see what everyone thinks about them and how much of a pain in the ass is it to do this? What mods are necessary, machining, cutting of the frame, gas tank (shouldn't be an issue for me), and what do you use for a swingarm?

One step forward, and two steps back... all part of the fun of building your own bike!

Jeff

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Jeff,

Doing a chain drive drive conversion isn't that difficult. With your crazy skills the cost wouldn't be that high. In fact I'll donate that arm I offered you early on. Just for the cost of shipping it to you. ( my donation to your effort ) The conversion does require machining the cases which I can do for you. You can buy a sprocket weldment from PCW I'm sure. The rest is fairly simple just a matter of assembly which I'm sure your capable of.

You may want to ditch that 15" rim and get yourself a 17". The options for tires is much better. I prefer a 7" slick or shoot out Mickey...you really don't want to hook too hard. Ask any big tire dragbike guy and he'll tell ya, it's expensive. Broken transmissions are usually the result. The tire is my fuse as I call it. You would rather have the tire spin than break the break a tranny. Sportbike wheels (ebay or a local bike boneyard) are easy to adapt just a matter of making spacers and a brake stay arm.