An Inconvenient Truth

[Rollie]

Socialism creeps into your life like a thief in the night. It's only your healthcare right ? Where do you go and appeal a problem / decision that the hospital or gov't has decided in their favor ? How long is the wait time for a decision to be made for a possible operation that could mean life or death in a matter of days or hours ? How about the elderly ? I'm sorry sir , but you don't need a hip replacement at this age in your gov't mandated / estimate of limited lifespan . Or a second opinion ? Is the doctor you're seeing and being paid by the gov't the best one in his field ? Or have the best ones left for better paying , for profit hospitals , elsewhere ?

Give me the private sector anytime and let competition weed out the losers and keep the gov't pencil neck pencil pushers out of my healthcare. 'Cause next they'll want to mandate that you have to drive an electric car , or get your energy from a freaking windmill . Or give Al Gore millions in carbon credits for using his energy.

Socialists are never happy until they make all the decisions for you and you no longer have free will . The problem for them however , seems to occur , when they run out of your money.

 

[max_caper]

Socialism creeps into your life like a thief in the night. It's only your healthcare right ? Where do you go and appeal a problem / decision that the hospital or gov't has decided in their favor ? How long is the wait time for a decision to be made for a possible operation that could mean life or death in a matter of days or hours ? How about the elderly ?

I'll try to answer your questions based on what my family has experienced.

My son's godmother was victim of a botched medical procedure. She got a lawyer and a hefty settlement (I didn't ask how much).

My father was a minimum wage earner all his 33 years of work. He lives in a community of 1200 people in Nova Scotia. At 77 he was diagnosed with a defective heart valve and also would need 2 bypasses. He waited a month and got the required surgery.

My appendectomy was of the emergency variety and I didn't wait at all.

I waited a month to undergo surgery for carpal tunnel.

However, I hear that the healthcare situation in Toronto is very stretched due to the large and growing population and lack of doctors in the city.

I don't like the way our federal govt has taken care of gun laws...see my rant on "Canadian gun laws suck".

Blaine

 

[Jack Butler]

Socialism creeps into your life like a thief in the night. It's only your healthcare right ? Where do you go and appeal a problem / decision that the hospital or gov't has decided in their favor ? How long is the wait time for a decision to be made for a possible operation that could mean life or death in a matter of days or hours ? How about the elderly ? I'm sorry sir , but you don't need a hip replacement at this age in your gov't mandated / estimate of limited lifespan . Or a second opinion ? Is the doctor you're seeing and being paid by the gov't the best one in his field ? Or have the best ones left for better paying , for profit hospitals , elsewhere ?

Give me the private sector anytime and let competition weed out the losers and keep the gov't pencil neck pencil pushers out of my healthcare. 'Cause next they'll want to mandate that you have to drive an electric car , or get your energy from a freaking windmill . Or give Al Gore millions in carbon credits for using his energy.

Socialists are never happy until they make all the decisions for you and you no longer have free will . The problem for them however , seems to occur , when they run out of your money.

As long as you understand it doesn't work out that way, at least not in Canada.
It's far from perfect here, but no one has to declare bankruptcy because of healthcare.
I believe it's your number one reason for personal bankruptcy.
Your already spending more per patient, so......why not be at least more efficient?
The question I have is; why don't you care enough about each other, enough to find a way to make this work?

 

[Rollie]

As long as you understand it doesn't work out that way, at least not in Canada.
It's far from perfect here, but no one has to declare bankruptcy because of healthcare.
I believe it's your number one reason for personal bankruptcy.
Your already spending more per patient, so......why not be at least more efficient?
The question I have is; why don't you care enough about each other, enough to find a way to make this work?

They are very patient. They don't care if it takes 40 , 60 , 80 years to accomplish their goals. They would have a harder time succeeding if everyone knew what their goals are. They don't tell you though , you have to see the subtle things they do along the way . I hope they never do. Right now , approx. 35 % of the population receives $ from the gov't. We don't have a lot of time left.

The leftists try to convince the independents that the right wing doesn't care about the environment, clean water , the elderly and social security . How absurd . So , they get a snoot full of G.Bush & the Republicans , blame him for every thing that has gone wrong in the country , and they get together and right a wrong and a man with no experience like O'bama is elected from out of the blue. He has no clue how to run a country . He is a community organizer with no apparent confirmation of his birth certificate & spends millions to keep it all a secret . The rest of us have to submit a birth certificate for many identification requests beginning with grade school to social security . His youth , high school or college , nobody seems to remember him at all . Who paid for his college , trips back & forth overseas ? Nobody has come forward and stated they knew the guy. But his left wing Socialist agenda has attempted to tax and spend this country into bankruptcy in less than one term of office .

 

[Jack Butler]

All I can do at this point is post the same thing.
That was just a rant!
You totally missed what I said.

 

[Rollie]

All I can do at this point is post the same thing.
That was just a rant!
You totally missed what I said.

You are absolutely right. I did rant & ramble . Sorry to offend.

 

[Jack Butler]

Hmmm...still no answer?
It is humorous what people believe about Obama.

 

[Rockatansky]

Hmmm...still no answer?
It is humorous what people believe about Obama.

What do you think Jack?

 

[Jack Butler]

I think that people wanted a change when Obama was elected.
I think that things were fucked up when Bush left, really fucked up!
I think that Obama turned out to be a dud.
I think that a strong "right" or "left" mentality never seems to move a country forward.
It think it becomes about politicing and not progress.
I think that I know the answers to all the questions in the google drop down box.

 

[Slacker]

I wonder how much of the U.S. $ s / % is spent on illegal immigrants ?

I have read different amounts. Who knows for sure. No one can say where almost a tril bucks went from the blow money packages. Few seem to care where it all went. I had seen one report, 4 yrs old now, illegals cost America around a tril every three years. That's everything included.

Seen a fairly young, smart Russian on the TV last year. He once worked in the Kremlin. His job was to report on the financial status of America. He told his bosses back in the 90's that Mexico would break America.

 

[85 MAX-fan]

It's far from perfect here, but no one has to declare bankruptcy because of healthcare.
I believe it's your number one reason for personal bankruptcy.
Your confusing our bankruptcy laws with the cost of health care. Just because huge numbers of leaches are draining our economy via bankruptcy judgments due to our lame lawyer driven bankruptcy laws is not a reason to make it worse by opening up the game to more leaches.

Your already spending more per patient, so......why not be at least more efficient?
We're spending more partially because of bankruptcy judgments, legal mandates to treat non-citizens that never pay, and because of a massive level of government intervention into every aspect of our medical system. No reason to worsen it by mandating our hospitals need to get further fubared by big brother. That is guaranteed to make it worse still. The definition of inefficient is government run ANYTHING.

The question I have is; why don't you care enough about each other, enough to find a way to make this work?

Its not a question about caring for each other. It is a simple matter of human nature. There will always be those that CHOOSE to rob you blind if they ever see the chance. It has always be that way. My opinion is that i should not be forced to pay for those that cheat, steal, don't work, fail to plan for the future, or the massive bureacracy that is filled with more opportunities for these types to line their pockets with my hard earned money. I have watched our medical system continue to slide down the crapper for decades as more and more government undermines it.
The age old derailment of a debate by throwing "feeling" into it. "Do it for the children"!!

 

[Rollie]

Not only do we care for each other , we give until it hurts. Who do other countries call when disaster strikes ? Who do they call when another rogue country invades ? What other country in the world gives or cares as much as the U.S. of A. ? What types of immigration policies do our neighbor from the south employ ? We give a damn about all mankind . And we get a lot of crap back because of it .

There are those who would have annexed our neighbors from the North and South , and then closed all the new borders , permanently . Not me personally , I think our borders are fine as long as the border police / army / nat'l guard can enforce the laws already in place , such as Mexico does. Kick the U.N. out of the Northern hemisphere , and leave the rest of the world to implode. Sorry , ranting again. I gotta keep up with my meds.

 

[Redbone]

I think a large part of this world would be speaking German if were not for the United States and their military input into WWII.
I only say this because of Hitler's and his war mongers that just happened to be from Germany.
Here is a video about some Illegal's use of our "free" healthcare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNP2igM90to

 

[Jack Butler]

Not only do we care for each other , we give until it hurts. Who do other countries call when disaster strikes ? Who do they call when another rogue country invades ? What other country in the world gives or cares as much as the U.S. of A. ? What types of immigration policies do our neighbor from the south employ ? We give a damn about all mankind . And we get a lot of crap back because of it .

There are those who would have annexed our neighbors from the North and South , and then closed all the new borders , permanently . Not me personally , I think our borders are fine as long as the border police / army / nat'l guard can enforce the laws already in place , such as Mexico does. Kick the U.N. out of the Northern hemisphere , and leave the rest of the world to implode. Sorry , ranting again. I gotta keep up with my meds.

You can build a wall around yourself if you want.
Being the worlds police is admiral quality no question, but I'm not talking about that.
That's an interesting comment 85 max fan on human nature.
It's what is different about our countries, I guess?
And, giving till it hurts...how about a 52% tax bracket.
Many in the middle class pay 40% or more, so I kinda get it!
With all the money and technology and brilliant minds that is in the USA, it should have happened by now.
I believe what I do to you affects me and what I do to myself affects you.
We are all connected.
Holding you back or not including you does nothing for my advancement, but lending you a hand up does.
It doesn't have to be survival of the fittest, really!
There is lots of money in your country to deal with it, no?

 

[max_caper]

I'm not sure how Obamacare works (in a nutshell). I've tried reading some articles but can't get into it. Does the govt subsidize health insurance companies so poorer folks can afford insurance?

In Canada we can pay health insurance companies out of pocket to provide coverage for prescription meds, eyewear, and dental care...things that are not covered by govt healthcare. Visits to the doctor, surgery of a non-cosmetic type, emergency procedures, annual physicals, x-rays, blood work, is covered by our healthcare system with no healthcare company middleman.

Blaine

 

[Redbone]

You can build a wall around yourself if you want.
Being the worlds police is admiral quality no question, but I'm not talking about that.
That's an interesting comment 85 max fan on human nature.
It's what is different about our countries, I guess?
And, giving till it hurts...how about a 52% tax bracket.
Many in the middle class pay 40% or more, so I kinda get it!
With all the money and technology and brilliant minds that is in the USA, it should have happened by now.
I believe what I do to you affects me and what I do to myself affects you.
We are all connected.
Holding you back or not including you does nothing for my advancement, but lending you a hand up does.
It doesn't have to be survival of the fittest, really!
There is lots of money in your country to deal with it, no?

But what is wrong with trying to better yourself and bring along others to a better life. I think it is one of the reasons we have lots of money in our country.
I wonder what would have happened if William C. Durant was content to just keep selling cigars rather than buying a cart company and building one of the worlds most successful car companies. What he did affected a whole world of people. :confused2:
With all the tax money collected on this money making venture that Mr. Durant earned, his employee's earned, suppliers earned and all the other capitalistic venture in the U.S. we are able to send our monumental aid to all the corners of the world, fund the best military in the world all so that others may have a better life free of fear, tyranny and live a self determined life. Talk about lending a hand up!
I mean no disrespect but I just thought that this point should be illustrated, however poorly I may have stated it.

 

[max_caper]

But what is wrong with trying to better yourself and bring along others to a better life. I think it is one of the reasons we have lots of money in our country.
I wonder what would have happened if William C. Durant was content to just keep selling cigars rather than buying a cart company and building one of the worlds most successful car companies. What he did affected a whole world of people. :confused2:
With all the tax money collected on this money making venture that Mr. Durant earned, his employee's earned, suppliers earned and all the other capitalistic venture in the U.S. we are able to send our monumental aid to all the corners of the world, fund the best military in the world all so that others may have a better life free of fear, tyranny and live a self determined life. Talk about lending a hand up!
I mean no disrespect but I just thought that this point should be illustrated, however poorly I may have stated it.

I thought I read somewhere that US military intervention overseas is being funded by borrowed money. It is very commendable to help others when you can afford it but what about when you can't afford it? Who will pay off this debt over how many generations. This may be a selfish thing to say but if it was me I'd vote for a trillion in heathcare to help my own citizens over a trillion in military costs to abroad.

Blaine

 

[Redbone]

IMHO, please! That is what is at issue here in the U.S., the scenario I depicted started over 100 years ago. By the late 1950's the entrepreneurial spirit was being liberalized. The 50's rebels and 60's hippies grew up to become a political power, who then decided that the corporations were to big and powerful!l They decided, using self serving ideals, that more government control was needed! Since governments really only know how to spend money and not earn it they need to regulate the money makers. To do that they grew the government to protect the people from the evil corporations. The corporations knew the only way to survive was to sub to outside sources because they can not compete on the unbalanced playing field the government has lid out for them.
So the government, the almighty protector and provider for the people are borrowing money faster than we can print it trying to provide more handouts. As problematic as the idea of providing people with health coverage, it is also symbolic of the coming of big government as the dominant provider as a means of support. America is proud, at least a majority of them, that they are self sufficient and a large government program like healthcare is a shot to the chin of American pride. Or is that past pride, too many sheeple without a clue or a care and jump at anything free, the governments perfect trap! It's not free, you "pay" for it with your freedoms and losing a measure of self governance.
I'm rambling now, that's enough for today from me!:biglaugh:

 

[jfeagins]

I'm not sure how Obamacare works (in a nutshell). I've tried reading some articles but can't get into it. Does the govt subsidize health insurance companies so poorer folks can afford insurance? Blaine

I don't believe ANYONE knows. I believe our Congress passed this 1200+ page bill without reading it themselves. And even then, they were only sure about the paragraphs they've included specifically to exclude themselves from it. :ummm::ummm::confused2::confused2:

 

[Rollie]

I don't believe ANYONE knows. I believe our Congress passed this 1200+ page bill without reading it themselves. And even then, they were only sure about the paragraphs they've included specifically to exclude themselves from it. :ummm::ummm::confused2::confused2:

Per Nancy Pelosi , just pass it , we'll figure out what's in it as we go along . What a douche bag .