bolt on chain conversion kit

[xschop]

Good point.....I will be looking at it this weekend.....
So Yamaha designed the Pinion Bevel, so that if it got worn, you'ld have to split the case?
If this is the case (no pun intended) then a 1-time splitting of the case to remove the bevel would have to be performed. Then it's all butter and replaceable sprockets after the kit is installed.......

 

[one2dmax]

Yes, and no.

The Yes:
You would have to split the cases to at least get the old stuff out. The gears don't normally wear out during normal riding habits but i've broken them before.

The No:
If you extend the gear to the outside like we have then the sprockets bolt on like any normal install (and use FZR1000 gears). You rebend the factory oiling tube that sprays on the bearings so that it lubes the new outside bearing. If you try to go with a sealed bearing it will last you about 5000 miles. We cut off the end of the shaft down to where the splines just start. Jeff, if you have a picture or the parts on hand you can post what this looks like.

This gets you back to other problems.

Let's say you get the sprocket outside the cases like we have. Then you tackle the swingarm and chain parts which is the easy part (somewhat). Next, you need to work something with the shifter. If you move it outboard very far at all they are going to catch the ground during hard corners (I already drag the pegs on occasion and even showed the pegs can be made to hit just weaving the white lines on the highway).

Once you get past all that then you are home free. All these factors make the simple conversion pretty much a dream. Now, there is nothing saying you can't come up with a way to remove that outer nut and fab a sprocket carrier that attaches to it. Pull the rear half of the gear out and put a block plate in. Just leave the old work gear in place and not worry about it.

That may be the direction you should look at.

Sean

 

[TURBOVMAX]

How do you propose to remove the beveled gear from the cases? If you note the size of the gear it's larger then the outer support bearing. The rear beveled gear is simple with 3 bolts and a quick pull. Then make a plate to cover up the hole. Even if you remove the outer bearing (which can probably be done) the hole to get the inner gear simply isn't large enough to get it out.

Sean

:hmmm:

 

[xschop]

You answered my question I was about to ask. I also was going to ask what would be the prefered front sprocket spline to go with. I like the XS sprockets because they are 6-spline and fairly easy to machine. But I have equipment and can machine anything. What's nice about the outboard swap will be unlimited sprocket teeth combinatons....
I did think about just pushing the bevel gear towards the inner area after the rear bevel is pulled, But besides that large spring, I don't think the bevel gear will go far enough inwards over the splines (doubt it will ride over them anyways) to install a custom shaft extention....

 

[xschop]

There is a big question that you should ask yourself.....Which is easier....split the case and remove the outter bevel......Or machine the outter bearing seat so the bevel gear slides right out?

 

[xschop]

More than likely I will machine the outter cover to accept a larger and wider sealed bearing that would last well beyond 5000 miles and be replaceable.....been there and done that......

 

[one2dmax]

Here is another hurdle. If you remove the internals and make the chain run inside the case area (within the frame boundaries) then you have to try and seal the currently cavity up. The popular way is to make a sleeve that is just under the size of the bore and has a bearing and oil seal in it. Then it's siliconed into place to keep the oil in the gears. This is difficult to keep sealed up.

Once you machine the cases for the internal type sprocket you have to now consider keeping enough structure to the block that it stays in place. You will be machining off a good portion of the rear engine mount. The way to get some structure back to the block is to use solid mounts and add a frame to block filler to help keep the block in place.

What you really need to do is get your hands on the parts so you can see just what is being done. I can probably get some pics of the chain drive installed into a chassis too.

Sean

 

[xschop]

"""""""What you really need to do is get your hands on the parts so you can see just what is being done. I can probably get some pics of the chain drive installed into a chassis too""""""

POST up some pics of that for sure, But
I will build a bolt-on kit, with replaceable sprocket capability.Chain will run right along the outside of the frame pivot and I will design a bolt-on chain guard to go with the kit. You will have to split the case one time and remove the outter bevel gear. There will be no machining of the case needed. I initially thought I could grind out the bearing seat and pull the bevel gear right out (then design the bearing into the custom outter plate)....This can be done, but not user friendly for a kit.....I already took a look at the parts involved and have a good idea what needs to be done to bring it to fruition......
I took these pics from my camera phone at lunch from, O.D. of roller bearing is 85 and O.D. of bevel gear is 96.....So if you ground out the seat to pull the bevel gear, Your outter custom plate better be accurate to the thosandths (which can be done because of the locating dowels)......I'm just not so sure about this hassle, plus you'll have shavings to clean up afterwards.....

Took a pic for reference of the chain-path from one of the Max's at the shop where my friend works.... the foot rest and shifter can be dealt with easy enough....

 

[xschop]

Here's what would have to be ground out if you absolutely don't want to split the case, BUT a different custom outter cover would have to be machined for the outter bearing to be held....then again a double wide sealed replaceable bearing could be used that lasted for eons.....

 

[RagingMain]

I guess I would have to see the finished product but a chain on the outside of the frame pivot just seems butt fugly to me. Maybe with a single sided swing arm it would look better

 

[TURBOVMAX]

xschop do you happen to have the weigh's of those single sided swingarms including the stock wheel?

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Sean, do you have your setup completed?

 

[one2dmax]

Jeff has one of my complete setups and I think I have one more on hand here.

Sean

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Sean,

Is this the version your talking about ? http://www.vmaxforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8351&d=1242268386 It is exactly what I'll be looking to use.

 

[one2dmax]

Yes, that's our conversion. I would like to get the adapter cover plate duplicated and maybe even improved on by addind a chain shield.

Sean

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Cool! I can do a nice billet setup for ya if you'd like. Should pretty much wrap up the initial setup for the EFI project by month's end so Mark can start tuning. I'd have some free time then.

 

[xschop]

Doesn't that swap put the chain on the outside of the frame?
http://www.vmaxforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8351&d=1242268386

To answer the Triumph Weight question, I would have to search thru all the old posts on XS11.Com.....I do recall dropping 1/2 the weight as the stock rear swingarm and wheel/shaft combo.
The other thing you will have to get use to when you go from shaft to chain is the loss of the Frame-flex that comes with these bikes....I also copied the Vmax's soilid mounts in billet and modified them for the 11. I have the Drawings also...I,m sure they are somewhere here on the site.....

Also I looked at a few different SSSA's....VFR800, RAM, and Ducati...... The Duc and Triumphs win hands down.....They are molded stronger than the others. And most importantly can be had for a song on The Bay all day.

SEAN previously wrote....
"Now, there is nothing saying you can't come up with a way to remove that outer nut and fab a sprocket carrier that attaches to it. Pull the rear half of the gear out and put a block plate in. Just leave the old work gear in place and not worry about it.

That may be the direction you should look at."
I also was looking at that possibility yesterday, although I hadn't removed that large pinion preload nut to see what the threads looked like and how many there were. I'm not sure I would trust a simple screw on sprocket carrier adapter.....

 

[xschop]

What welding method are you guys using to modify the middle drive shaft?
I will be designing my set-up where there is No welding or cutting off the shaft. The splines are metric 28, 27,29 respectively and I will machine the adapter to slip right over these, extend thru the outter bearing and have the replaceable sprocket splines machined on the end of it....

The custom outer Billet sprocket cover can be machined beefy enough to relocate the foot pegs and shifter too.....

 

[TURBOVMAX]

I'd like to say again you did an awesome job with that XS and I believe you will do the same with the chain drive VMAX project. One time I actually paid someone to do an extended shaft swing-arm for one of my bikes. Won't mention any names it wasn't Sean, he does great work. The guy was considered the best when it came to VMAX mods.

Well it took forever to get and when it arrived I discovered that he had actually cut the drive shaft and had welded a sleeve over it to extend it. I was beside myself and picked up the phone called him... and was told he had done it before and never had a problem. Of course on the first ride it snapped right at the joint. Called back and the guy had the nerve to offer me a special drag race version for additional money. Said I abused the first version he had sent me :rofl_200:. Not so funny back then having laid out nearly 1 G.

Do you plan to keep that sprocket up close to the outer case? Have you laid out that shaft? I envision that the inner spline will be have a shoulder at the depth and then a thru hole to swallow up the rest of the shaft? If you need any help with broaching that inner spline I can hook you up with a vendor I use to do that OP.

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

i looked into doing this over the winter when i got depressed about the directions things were going with my 280 tire conversion. A local chopper builder here in oakville who does a lot of yamaha choppers has done some chain drive wide tire setups by sleving and welding the output shaft... long story short, we too couldnt figure out how to get the bevel gear out without splitting the cases. I wouldnt have cared about it but ya kinda need the extra overlap to make a splice work. I still think there has to be a way it just never came to me...
but there was many a night i just took the cover off and stared at it...LOL....
Id buy it if it can be done with no engine removal and case splitting.....