Ethanol and fuel stabilizer

[wkdenton]

Some folks think that using fuel stabilizer is only for off-season storage. While this may have been true in the good old days of pure gasoline, its not at all true anymore in this day and age of ethanol *******ized fuel.

Unless you enjoy pulling carbs and cleaning pilot jets, etc., here are some words to live by to keep your carbureted bike(s) running crisp, year after year:

1) Add a quality fuel stabilizer to your tank at every fill-up. Yes, every fill-up, 24/7/365. This is especially critical in hot humid weather, when ethanol laced gas degrades several orders of magnitude more quickly*.

2) Contact with atmospheric oxygen and moisture (AKA humidity) are the two things that will (further) accelerate the degradation of the gasahol fuel in your tank. To minimize these effects, keep your fuel tank full when your bike is sitting unused between rides and in the off season. The less headspace in the tank, the better. The oxygen and water** in the ethanol will still be causing degradation of the fuel from within, but by minimizing contact with additional moisture and oxygen from the air you'll be minimizing the oxidative degradation process as much as is possible.

3) Add some seafoam to your fuel every 3rd or 4th tankful. This detergent mixture will keep things clean and your max purring.

* - Every 10C (50F) increase in temperature will double the rate of a chemical reaction. Translation - gasoline will degrade about 4X faster at 30C (86F) than at 10C (50F), which is why its so important to use fuel stabilizer during the summer

** - 100 proof food grade alcohol (AKA grain alcohol) is actually 95% ethanol and 5% water (something known as an azeotropic mixture). Fuel grade alcohol, unfortunately, sometimes contains a lot more water than that!

 

[digin150]

+ 1 Ilove lucas havent had to service my 85 carbs in 5 years put a little in every tank .Dont ride as much used to.Use it in my 09 as well 800 miles on that one!

 

[93max]

Could you just use seafoam?

 

[D-Max2012]

Let's not forget: A coated fuel tank will not allow moisture to interact with steel to form rust in your system.

 

[Eugene Brad]

Some folks think that using fuel stabilizer is only for off-season storage. While this may have been true in the good old days of pure gasoline, its not at all true anymore in this day and age of ethanol *******ized fuel.

Unless you enjoy pulling carbs and cleaning pilot jets, etc., here are some words to live by to keep your carbureted bike(s) running crisp, year after year:

1) Add a quality fuel stabilizer to your tank at every fill-up. Yes, every fill-up, 24/7/365. This is especially critical in hot humid weather, when ethanol laced gas degrades several orders of magnitude more quickly*.

2) Contact with atmospheric oxygen and moisture (AKA humidity) are the two things that will (further) accelerate the degradation of the gasahol fuel in your tank. To minimize these effects, keep your fuel tank full when your bike is sitting unused between rides and in the off season. The less headspace in the tank, the better. The oxygen and water** in the ethanol will still be causing degradation of the fuel from within, but by minimizing contact with additional moisture and oxygen from the air you'll be minimizing the oxidative degradation process as much as is possible.

3) Add some seafoam to your fuel every 3rd or 4th tankful. This detergent mixture will keep things clean and your max purring.

* - Every 10C (50F) increase in temperature will double the rate of a chemical reaction. Translation - gasoline will degrade about 4X faster at 30C (86F) than at 10C (50F), which is why its so important to use fuel stabilizer during the summer

** - 100 proof food grade alcohol (AKA grain alcohol) is actually 95% ethanol and 5% water (something known as an azeotropic mixture). Fuel grade alcohol, unfortunately, sometimes contains a lot more water than that!

I knew having a chemist on the forum would be helpful.

Questions; if I run exclusively no ethanol, clear gas are these daily additives necessary?

I've heard that when ethanol based fuels go bad the ethanol has evaporated out and it basically turns to lacquer? If that is the case, would a solvent based lacquer thinner be an appropriate alternative to an additive/ cleaner.
Just thinking outside the box



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[Traumahawk]

I knew having a chemist on the forum would be helpful.

Questions; if I run exclusively no ethanol, clear gas are these daily additives necessary?

I've heard that when ethanol based fuels go bad the ethanol has evaporated out and it basically turns to lacquer? If that is the case, would a solvent based lacquer thinner be an appropriate alternative to an additive/ cleaner.
Just thinking outside the box



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From what Ive heard, the fuel today, only has a shelf life of 90 days.

 

[caseyjones955]

Ethanol tainted fuel has the short shelf life. I'm still burning the same non-ethanol tank of fuel in my Samurai that I put in over a year ago.

When I have to put ethanol in the bike I follow it with a few oz of Seafoam and it's been working alright so far.

 

[wkdenton]

Seafoam is a great detergent, StaBil is a good fuel stabilizer and oxidation inhibitor. They are different tools for different purposes. Use the right tool for the right job. Saying that, "I've been using seafoam and it seems to be alright so far" is a little bit like saying, "I've been smoking for 40 years and I don't have cancer so far".:ummm: Don't use an adjustable wrench when you have a beautiful set of 12pt sockets sitting right on the bench.

 

[caseyjones955]

Seafoam is a great detergent, StaBil is a good fuel stabilizer and oxidation inhibitor. They are different tools for different purposes. Use the right tool for the right job. Saying that, "I've been using seafoam and it seems to be alright so far" is a little bit like saying, "I've been smoking for 40 years and I don't have cancer so far".:ummm: Don't use an adjustable wrench when you have a beautiful set of 12pt sockets sitting right on the bench.

I use Seafoam to counter the ******/ethanol tainted fuel and every couple tankfuls just to help keep things clean, and it works alright so far, no gunk or corn-squeezings in the carbs, hence "it works alright so far".

My intended implication was that pure gasoline has a great shelf life as opposed to ethanol tainted fuel and a separate point, separated by a full line space, was that Seafoam seems to help counter the problems with ethanol-tainted fuel as has been my experience. I guess I wasnt clear enough for all readers. With text not having any connotation or inflection it's pretty easy to interpret your response as a bit condescending and douchey.

 

[Traumahawk]

Me myself, I'm not a big fan of sea foam. Looking on an older MSDS sheet.

by weight:
40-60% "pale oil" (light mineral oil)
25-35% Naphtha
10-20% IPA (isopropyl alcohol)

Now that they have switched to SDS sheets it just says

Chemical name CAS # Concentration
Hydrocarbon blend* Blend < 95%
Isopropanol 67-63-0 < 25%

 

[wkdenton]

?..if I run exclusively no ethanol, clear gas are these daily additives necessary?

I've heard that when ethanol based fuels go bad the ethanol has evaporated out and it basically turns to lacquer?

First question answer is "no"

Second question answer is "false". The ethanol would be one of the last fractions of gasahol to evaporate, as it has an RVP* that's 3x-7x lower than the gasoline that its mixed with.

Contact with oxygen, either in air or from the ethanol, causes oxidative degradation turning gas into gums and varnish.

Contact with water, in the form of humidity,mcondensation in the headspace of the fuel tank, or carried in with the technical grade ethanol, causes phase separation with the ethanol/water solution dropping to the bottom of the tank. Also, when phase separation occurs the octane rating of the fuel drops by sevral points because ethanol has a high octane rating and is part of the overall ocatne rating of the fuel blend.

Thats all for now, peace

*RVP - Reid Vapor Pressure, basically a measure of volatility, or how easily a liquid turns to a gaseous vapor

 

[Eugene Brad]

First question answer is "no"

Second question answer is "false". The ethanol would be one of the last fractions of gasahol to evaporate, as it has an RVP* that's 3x-7x lower than the gasoline that its mixed with.

Contact with oxygen, either in air or from the ethanol, causes oxidative degradation turning gas into gums and varnish.

Contact with water, in the form of humidity,mcondensation in the headspace of the fuel tank, or carried in with the technical grade ethanol, causes phase separation with the ethanol/water solution dropping to the bottom of the tank. Also, when phase separation occurs the octane rating of the fuel drops by sevral points because ethanol has a high octane rating and is part of the overall ocatne rating of the fuel blend.

Thats all for now, peace

*RVP - Reid Vapor Pressure, basically a measure of volatility, or how easily a liquid turns to a gaseous vapor

Thanks... I meant to say varnish not lacquer...doh!


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[wkdenton]

With text not having any connotation or inflection it's pretty easy to interpret your response as a bit condescending and douchey.

Sorry CJ955, I wasn't tryng to be condescending or a vaginal wash. Sometimes I just get a little frustrated when people throw anecdotal comments out there right after I've done my best effort to explain, from a technical or chemical pov, the differences between commercially available products and their intended uses. Also, I wasn't speaking (just) to you in my remark, rather I was trying to add clarity to my and your comment(s) before other readers got the misimpression that Seafoam is a good alternative to a legitimate fuel stabilizer. It is not.

Having said all that and after reviewing your profile I see that you're a very active forum participant averaging 900+ posts/year, so out of respect for a senior poster, I apologize once again for coming across as condescending. I just have a bit of a cocky sense of humor which does not translate well in online. **** me, eh? OK, I'll take that. Peace

 

[adambweird]

I like BG44K or Berrymans myself.

 

[jdeitz1979]

Me myself, I'm not a big fan of sea foam. Looking on an older MSDS sheet.

by weight:
40-60% "pale oil" (light mineral oil)
25-35% Naphtha
10-20% IPA (isopropyl alcohol)

Now that they have switched to SDS sheets it just says

Chemical name CAS # Concentration
Hydrocarbon blend* Blend < 95%
Isopropanol 67-63-0 < 25%

Grrr I hate that change. It was much better as MSDS


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[Eugene Brad]

Does anyone have a hard time finding clear gas locally? I'm lucky, live less than a mile from a clear gas pump.
Just curiouse if it's more convenient for you all to get the additives and get fuel anywhere, than it is to use clear gas?

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[jdeitz1979]

Does anyone have a hard time finding clear gas locally? I'm lucky, live less than a mile from a clear gas pump.
Just curiouse if it's more convenient for you all to get the additives and get fuel anywhere, than it is to use clear gas?

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Yep. There is an app called pure gas by autolean inc. will show you where clear gas is no matter where you are.


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[Eugene Brad]

Yep. There is an app called pure gas by autolean inc. will show you where clear gas is no matter where you are.


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Good to know, thanks

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[jdeitz1979]

Good to know, thanks

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No problem. I have used it a bit. Works well.


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[caseyjones955]

Sorry CJ955, I wasn't tryng to be condescending or a vaginal wash. Sometimes I just get a little frustrated when people throw anecdotal comments out there right after I've done my best effort to explain, from a technical or chemical pov, the differences between commercially available products and their intended uses. Also, I wasn't speaking (just) to you in my remark, rather I was trying to add clarity to my and your comment(s) before other readers got the misimpression that Seafoam is a good alternative to a legitimate fuel stabilizer. It is not.

Having said all that and after reviewing your profile I see that you're a very active forum participant averaging 900+ posts/year, so out of respect for a senior poster, I apologize once again for coming across as condescending. I just have a bit of a cocky sense of humor which does not translate well in online. **** me, eh? OK, I'll take that. Peace

No problem at all, like I said with only text theres no inflection and it's tricky to know what really intended. I have a sense of humor that is pretty off center so I have been misunderstood often enough to get what your saying. Besides your right, my post was on the vague side and I overreacted so I owe you an apology too. Were good! :cheers: