Hot starting issues

[jfeagins]

So I've read before that the Max is prone to heat soak issues with the starter. Well, since I live in the pit of hell (Georgia) I've started having that problem the last 2 days.

So, I know there is a way to beef up the wiring, possibly add a relay to help combat this. Though I would post here and see what/if any of you guy's have done to deal with this issue and what seems to work the best.

In my case if I let the bike cool for about 30min, starting is still weak, but she will start. So it's not a majoe issue if I'm stopping to eat somewhere, however, this doesn't work so well if all I want to do is pull over and take a quick piss. :th_stophierPeeingIn

My Max is an original '85 with the 2-brush starter with around 20K miles on it now. It also developed this hot-starting issue a couple yrs back. With other electrical issues, I didn't ride much anyway, but finally got fed up with my Max and went in search of answers this summer.

With pointers I found on this website, I was able to get the 'other' electrical issue resolved - finally. As for my starter problems, here is what I found: I had to drain a little green water into a pan and remove the thermostat for clearance, then removed the starter. The brushes were under 10% used and looked in good shape. I cleaned up all the inside surfaces and blew out all the brush dust. One bearing, I forget front or back, is sealed and rolled fine. The other one is a needle bearing type and mine was very dry. I cleaned it up and RELUBED with hi-temp bearing grease, reassembled and reinstalled everything including new anti-freeze.

Viola! My Max now starts perfectly whether hot or cold. It's like having a brand new battery. In fact, it starts better than it did just after I installed the last new battery because new batteries don't fix the hot-start problem. (fixing that darn coil wire connection did wonders for making Max run on all 4 again too).

You might try this on your starter too. I'm kinda cheap at times and didn't spend the $50.00 or so for a OEM starter kit that includes new brushes and bearings, but the fix seems to be working.

Good luck with yours if you haven't already fixed it.

 

[Buster Hymen]

That's the first I've heard of checking the bearings but that is a good find! I also have the 2 brush starter with a semi hot start problem. At the end of the riding season, I think I'll tear into the starter and check the bearings.

 

[Calimus]

Very interesting. I think I might be with Buster on this one and give it a check when it gets colder. Then again, I might go after it this weekend.

Never can tell when a wild hair might crawl up my ass.

 

[Calimus]

So the Vmax outright told me what the problem was today. On Thursday I rode the Max to work and back home. Got up this morning to go and take care of some things since I took the day off of work and it finally happened.

Turn the key, flip the on switch, pull the clutch, hit the start button and......I didn't get ****. Mind you, I just rode the damn thing yesterday without any issues at all. Started fine like normal...or so I thought anyway.

So, I go to hop in the Jetta to run my errands and now I also need to get a new battery for the bike. Jump in, push the clutch, hit the key......I don't get **** again. Well, I got a lovely clicking noise and we all know what that means. Battery no.2 for the day has gone to ****.

This is why I'm so glad I have several toys. So, the Max is down, the 01' Jetta is down. Daughter has the truck at school and the wife has already left for work in the cabriolet. The wifes SV looks very inviting, but I'm sure as hell not going to be able to carry two ******* batteries on that tiny damn thing. That leaves me with the 2 sciroccos. My sicrocco however, is blocked in the garage thanks to the non-starting roadblock that is the Jetta. So that leaves the wifes scirocco. So I go in, grab the keys, jump in the rocco and before putting the key in the ignition, I kindly tell the car that if it also doesn't start, I'm tearing it down for spare parts. Wouldn't ya know it, I hit the key and.....It fires right up.

So now with 2 batteries replaced, I'm much happier as is the local auto-parts store. I also learned that the battery in the max has apparently but on it's way out since I bought it a year ago. It was always a tad slow on the turnover and generally took 4-5 turns of the starter to fire up. I figured this to be normal for a 10 year old carbed bike. Not the case. Now ya hit the button and it fires up almost instantly. It's amazing.

Oh and hot starts, no longer an issue. Let the bike idle in the driveway after a quick run to get her all warmed up. Let the fan cycle and which point, I know I would generally have a starting issue. Shut the bike off, turn everything back on, hit the start button, and the orgasmic rumble of the V4 fills the air. I am once again a happy Maxer.

Sorry it's long winded, but I figured someone would find this humorus.

 

[Buster Hymen]

LOL... great story! Your driveway sounds like mine. With 5 or 6 vehicles, you know at least one of them HAS to start!!

 

[jfeagins]

Word of caution, and not to throw water on your 'new battery parade', but my max would also begin hot-starting better after installing a fresh battery. New batteries have great CCA's , but only a couple months into the new battery and the hot-start problem would re-occur for me. If your problems should begin again within the lifetime of this new battery, keep in mind the starter bearings.

LOL.

 

[Calimus]

I certainly won't be forgetting them. I keep a log of everything I do with the bike. So under the hot starting issues are things like improved grounds, starter bearings and such.

Basicly anything I learn about an issue gets put into the log as a potential fix.

 

[gleno]

I suspect that the starter issues have multiple causes, especially the hot start issue but this is how I fixed mine.

I noticed my bike would start fine when cold but struggle to crank (almost stop) when hot.

Systematically working through issues mentioned in various forums like checking and cleaning ground connections, battery charge etc did little to solve the problem until a member of one forum said he had dismantled the starter button switch on the handlebar assembly and found it to be full of dirt and dry grease.

This increases electrical resistence across the contacts in the starter switch / starter circuit.

I checked and mine was the same.

I disassembled the switch, cleaned the contacts, lubed them with Dielectric Tune-Up Grease and re-assembled the switch.

The starter now cranks strong and fast whether the bike is hot or cold.

Give it a try.

 

[RHiNO]

Would fixing that weak splice underneath the seat have a positive impact on the hot starting thing?

 

[maleko89]

Yeah. While doing that solder the stator to R/R connections and the R/R red wire connection to the harness.

Mark
#1098

 

[04sssti04sssti]

Slow start up

I have a 86 vmax that I bought last week and thought the battery was bad, because it was very hesitant starting, so I bought a new battery and it is still fairly hesitant:bang head: . It starts but seems to struggle. Any ideas, maybe the alt?

Thanks for the help.

 

[turbostang]

Re: Slow start up

Check all battery cables and replace them with larger gauge wire. I replaced my ground last year witha 4 gauge, and am currently replacing the starter feed wire with the same. It helps alot.

Also do the crimp fix, as described here.
http://vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/crimp.htm

I went a step futher and cut out the crimp/mainfuse entirely, replacing it with an inline fuse holder and larger gauge wire.

 

[davidon]

Re: Slow start up

Turbo

Can you post pics of the crimp bypass/Inline fuse set up? As to the orig question check starter motor

 

[bmannon]

Re: Slow start up

Turbo

Can you post pics of the crimp bypass/Inline fuse set up? As to the orig question check starter motor

You could have a weak starter too, but I would check out the charging system. Check the voltage at the battery with the bike running, if it is charging good it will be between 13 and 14 volts DC. If it isnt then check out this post.... fault finding chart and finally if that all checks out then your problem is where mine was, in the connectors hooking everything together.

I cut out the connectors between the stator wires and the R/R and soldered/heat shrinked them. Cut the connectors off at the RR, ran the red wire straight up to the battery and thru a fuse just before the battery. Ran a ground wire straight to the battery too, off one of the R/R mounting bolts. Aso I cleaned the battery cables on both ends. It took me about 2 hrs but it charges perfect now.

 

[04sssti04sssti]

Re: Slow start up

Great info. Great forum!! I will have a look at the mentioned items.

Thanks again.:cheers:

 

[eatatjoz]

Re: Slow start up

On my 86 the starter was just dirty. If you pull the back of the starter motor off, you'll see two brushes and the contact. Clean them really good, but it back together, and enjoy the sound of a Vmax spinning over nice and easy.

 

[Buster Hymen]

Re: Slow start up

Isn't the wire to the starter also undersized and pretty small? I think Shawn posted that he changed his with a larger size wire.

 

[shawn kloker]

Re: Slow start up

I ran a big ground from my regulator to the battery.Rectifier?

 

[Robbarrie]

Re: Slow start up

Just to add a question and note: Did you charge the new battery ? It may not have a full charge in it, especially if it has been sitting around for a while. How long has the bike been in storage ? Is the battery rated ok for the Max or did you just replace it with the same battery that was in it ?

I agree with the others, sounds like a weak charge in the new battery and if it is ok then check connections and then look in the direction of the starter itself. Good luck and let us know how you make out with it.

 

[shawn kloker]

Re: Slow start up

On my 86 the starter was just dirty. If you pull the back of the starter motor off, you'll see two brushes and the contact. Clean them really good, but it back together, and enjoy the sound of a Vmax spinning over nice and easy.

I agree with eatatjoes about the commutater and brushes being dirty.The old style 2 pole starters are not as good as the newer 4 poles.They make a conversion kit to upgrade it from 2 to 4 pole.I am going to do this to mine eventually.Mine starts really nice now with an odyssee battery.