one2dmax
Well-Known Member
If you are out of fluid it won't disengage the clutch. So it shouldn't cure the problem. But hope for it.
Sean
Sean
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If you fluid is gone and the little hole at the bottom is exposed you'll have to bleed it.
Redbone
Well-Known Member
I'm running Rotella 5w40 synthetic and I'm getting clutch slippage when the oil is not fully up to temp in the higher gears. Once the bike is up to operating temp this goes away. :confused2: It is the first oil change since I switched is this normal. '92 with 13,5k miles
my brake fluid was right at or a tiny bit below the 'lower' line yesterday so i filled it up and it made a big difference, so ekozy i hope it works for ya too!. make sure u check ur rear reservoir )behind the right panel) and your antifreeze while you are checking fluids.
4gasem
Well-Known Member
I run it too and never felt a thing... I DO have the barnett springs and kit... :confused2:
Chris
kozy
Well-Known Member
Just for reference, how do I bleed the clutch and brake lines?
kozy
Well-Known Member
Wait a second....did you say to use brake fluid for BOTH the clutch and the brake masters?????
Correct, it's the same stuff. The clutch and brakes operate the same way.
To bleed, go to local auto store and get a vacuum bleeder. This makes bleeding just as easy as sync-ing carbs. I can do all three brakes and clutch in about 30 minutes.
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=bleed&Submit=Go
Here's how I bleed.
1) Protect painted surfaces below masters with rags.
2) Have fresh DOT3/4.
3) Attach bleeder to bleeder valve on caliper (or slave cylinder if doing clutch).
4) Pump vacuum bleeder 6-10 times.
5) Open bleeder valve with wrench.
6) Fluid will empty into included container. When flow slows down close bleeder.
7) Pump brake lever slowly 2-3 times.
8) Top off master with fresh DOT3/4.
9) Go to step 4 and continue until only fresh fluid comes out of bleeder.
To bleed, go to local auto store and get a vacuum bleeder. This makes bleeding just as easy as sync-ing carbs. I can do all three brakes and clutch in about 30 minutes.
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=bleed&Submit=Go
Here's how I bleed.
1) Protect painted surfaces below masters with rags.
2) Have fresh DOT3/4.
3) Attach bleeder to bleeder valve on caliper (or slave cylinder if doing clutch).
4) Pump vacuum bleeder 6-10 times.
5) Open bleeder valve with wrench.
6) Fluid will empty into included container. When flow slows down close bleeder.
7) Pump brake lever slowly 2-3 times.
8) Top off master with fresh DOT3/4.
9) Go to step 4 and continue until only fresh fluid comes out of bleeder.
kozy
Well-Known Member
Mkay, here's the results.....
1. I opened the clutch m/c and it was chock full of fluid. Apparently the fluid level was higher than the little glass circle, and that's why I couldn't tell that there was fluid in there.
2. I opened the brake m/c and it too was full of fluid.
3. Checked the other reservoir behind the right side cover, and it too has plenty of fluid in it.
4. Coolant levels are up to par.
5. Put the bike up against a tree, dropped it from 4K in 5th gear, and it died almost instantly.
Does this sufficiently confuse ya?
1. I opened the clutch m/c and it was chock full of fluid. Apparently the fluid level was higher than the little glass circle, and that's why I couldn't tell that there was fluid in there.
2. I opened the brake m/c and it too was full of fluid.
3. Checked the other reservoir behind the right side cover, and it too has plenty of fluid in it.
4. Coolant levels are up to par.
5. Put the bike up against a tree, dropped it from 4K in 5th gear, and it died almost instantly.
Does this sufficiently confuse ya?
How does the fluid look? Clear? The only thing I can think of is bleed the clutch and/or bad slave cylinder.
kozy
Well-Known Member
The fluid did look really dirty. But would that be the lone cause of the clutch slipping? It never slips at low RPMs. It only does it when I'm running with the RPMs up in midrange and then I punch it. That being said, I'm confused how the test of me putting it up against the tree would show anything.
If the clutch fluid isn't clear it could cause problems. It should be changed every couple of years.
It's a clutch issue.
You said it has twenty thousand on the clock but how old is the bike :ummm:
If your clutch is slipping under load and high gear the plates may not be fully engaged.
First things to check are the easy stuff.
1) Is the fluid level correct. If not correct.
2) Bleed the lines to eliminate the possibility that you have air in the brake lines. I doubt that this will cause slipping but it will cause hard gear changes.
3) If you do have air in the lines how did it get in there? Check brake line fittings for correct tightness and for signs of leaks or cracks. Air can enter the lines via the master cylinder when fluid levels are to low.
I have said this in multiple threads before but I'll say it again in this one.
The most likely cause is the hydraulic piston in the slave cylinder binding up on degraded o-ring seals, water corrosion and rust particles that build up when your hydraulic fluids are not changed at the required 'use by' dates.
Brake fluid is hydrophilic. It loves water and absorbs it over time. If the aged fluid is not purged from the lines and reservoirs, the rot sets in and the slave piston ceases to move through its full length of travel. This will stop your clutch fully engaging and, when severe, can also prevent it from fully disengaging.
Don't jump to the conclusion that the clutch plates are worn out because unless you ride like a maniac all the time or have a highly modified engine with lots more power, the EOM clutch plates will last a long, long time and are unlikely to slip.
Don't jump to the conclusion that synthetic oil is the cause. This is not common and most likely highlights a pre-existing problem like a faulty slave cylinder.
Your description of the colour of your fluid suggests that it may not have been changed and the damage has been done to the slave cylinder assembly.
Bleeding the old fluid through after the corrosion and seal damage has started won't fix the problem. You will need to disassemble the slave cylinder thoroughly clean it and fit a new spring and seals. If the housing or piston are pitted, replace the whole assembly, it's cheaper.
The most common causes of clutch slippage are the ones I've just outlined.
These are also the most common causes of hard gear changes. (loose, worn and damaged linkages having been eliminated).
You said it has twenty thousand on the clock but how old is the bike :ummm:
If your clutch is slipping under load and high gear the plates may not be fully engaged.
First things to check are the easy stuff.
1) Is the fluid level correct. If not correct.
2) Bleed the lines to eliminate the possibility that you have air in the brake lines. I doubt that this will cause slipping but it will cause hard gear changes.
3) If you do have air in the lines how did it get in there? Check brake line fittings for correct tightness and for signs of leaks or cracks. Air can enter the lines via the master cylinder when fluid levels are to low.
I have said this in multiple threads before but I'll say it again in this one.
The most likely cause is the hydraulic piston in the slave cylinder binding up on degraded o-ring seals, water corrosion and rust particles that build up when your hydraulic fluids are not changed at the required 'use by' dates.
Brake fluid is hydrophilic. It loves water and absorbs it over time. If the aged fluid is not purged from the lines and reservoirs, the rot sets in and the slave piston ceases to move through its full length of travel. This will stop your clutch fully engaging and, when severe, can also prevent it from fully disengaging.
Don't jump to the conclusion that the clutch plates are worn out because unless you ride like a maniac all the time or have a highly modified engine with lots more power, the EOM clutch plates will last a long, long time and are unlikely to slip.
Don't jump to the conclusion that synthetic oil is the cause. This is not common and most likely highlights a pre-existing problem like a faulty slave cylinder.
Your description of the colour of your fluid suggests that it may not have been changed and the damage has been done to the slave cylinder assembly.
Bleeding the old fluid through after the corrosion and seal damage has started won't fix the problem. You will need to disassemble the slave cylinder thoroughly clean it and fit a new spring and seals. If the housing or piston are pitted, replace the whole assembly, it's cheaper.
The most common causes of clutch slippage are the ones I've just outlined.
These are also the most common causes of hard gear changes. (loose, worn and damaged linkages having been eliminated).
kozy
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm going to tackle this issue this weekend because I'll have a little time.
I have some questions before I start though....pardon my lack of knowledge:looser:
Where is the clutch slave cylinder located?
Is the bleeder obvious to see for the clutch?
To replace the clutch fluid(following Mark's instructions), I just bleed the whole system while pouring new fluid in the master cylinder until new fluid is coming out into the drain container? Or is there a way to drain all of the fluid and THEN put new fluid in?
Hopefully this fixes my issue. If it doesn't, I'll look into replacing the clutch plates asap.
Also, isn't the clutch lubricated by the engine oil?
I have some questions before I start though....pardon my lack of knowledge:looser:
Where is the clutch slave cylinder located?
Is the bleeder obvious to see for the clutch?
To replace the clutch fluid(following Mark's instructions), I just bleed the whole system while pouring new fluid in the master cylinder until new fluid is coming out into the drain container? Or is there a way to drain all of the fluid and THEN put new fluid in?
Hopefully this fixes my issue. If it doesn't, I'll look into replacing the clutch plates asap.
Also, isn't the clutch lubricated by the engine oil?
Look on the left slide. The cluthc bleeder is attached to the slave cylinder. Look for the squarish rubber cover and pop that up and you'll see the bleeder.
No, don't drain the fluid before bleeding. This just introduces air to the system and it will be much tougher to bleed!
No, don't drain the fluid before bleeding. This just introduces air to the system and it will be much tougher to bleed!
kozy
Well-Known Member
How could I check to see if the slave is bad?
What exactly does the clutch fluid do if the clutch itself is oiled with engine oil? I'm a relative moron when it comes to this stuff, but slowly and surely I'm learning!
What exactly does the clutch fluid do if the clutch itself is oiled with engine oil? I'm a relative moron when it comes to this stuff, but slowly and surely I'm learning!
The slave cylinder operates by releasing the clutch and does so with the clutch fluid. There's a seal in the slave cylinder to prevent the hydraulic fluid from mixing with the engine oil. You generally replace the slave cylinder if you eliminated the clutch, master cylinder, fluid and clutch line as the problem. The slave cylinder will go bad if you don't change the fluid often enough. They are pretty cheap and easy to replace.
naughtyG
Well-Known Member
be aware of the fact that it's a BITCH to bleed the clutch on the Max unless you have a MightyVac or the know-how!
I did that on mine recently and it drove me craaaaazy. If you can find the thread in here you will see what I went through, and how I finally made it work.
I ended up reverse-bleeding using a syringe - the normal bleeding procedure you would use on brakes just didn't work - once there's air in the system it won't actuate the clutch at all!
I did that on mine recently and it drove me craaaaazy. If you can find the thread in here you will see what I went through, and how I finally made it work.
I ended up reverse-bleeding using a syringe - the normal bleeding procedure you would use on brakes just didn't work - once there's air in the system it won't actuate the clutch at all!
kozy
Well-Known Member
well shit....thanks for the warning...I don't have the know-how or a "MightyVac" so I guess I'm going to be doing it the hard way on Sunday morning
naughtyG
Well-Known Member
here's that thread - read, edify yourself and you should be fine. Make sure you have a syringe and a good fitting piece of clear hose between the syringe and the nipple. And make sure the nipple is open enough for the fluid to push through from the syringe, and you'll be fine.
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=6052
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=6052
