March Motor Cyclist Magizine V-Max vs B-King

[richwrench]

Q-horse !!! good to hear ya - where you been ?

 

[QuarterHorse]

Oh life happened I guess haha. Sold the Busa, got a Mustang again, buying a house again, had to close the doors on my small business and work for the man, again....

Once I get into another home getting a bike is next on the list again.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

BULLSHIT!

I got flamed up and down on this board when I told a few people that in no way shape or form stock for stock the new Max would be beating a new Busa. There were people bashing just to bash as I didn't agree that the Max performance wise would stand up. Now the proof is here and it's all so quiet about it.

I would still LOVE to own the new VMax as I said back in those posts, but damn, how about some humble pie those of you who flamed on?

Just thought I'd pipe up about that.

By the way what's up Chris, Nathan, Jeff, everybody?!?!

Hey man, nice to see you back, where the hell have you been...????

I agree that there were. and always will be be those that will swear by the Max no matter what, and yes, you got flamed...

Most of that flaming went on before we all found out the new Max was only gonna make 197hp at the crank, and especially before we found out it was gonna e 80lbs heavier rather than 20-40lbs lighter than the old Max....

Once the Numbers were on the table, only an insane man would've made that bet....I too even had my hopes based on the huge torque numbers, but damn, 680lbs is still 680lbs no matter how you cut it....you can't hope that away..

Rational minds cannot possible equivocate a bike with the weight of the B-king and the Max against each other in the quarter, light to light is yet to be seen, but I still think it will be extremely respectable if not the winner, in spite of the weight...the torque will get it off the line, but the weight differential and carrying equal HP will make it fall behind gradually further down the road........


Torque is awesome, but you gotta have the HP to back it up or even more so make up for the additional weight, no matter what the torque is, it takes HP to keep it going down the strip, and even more HP to keep accellerating like a 450lbs or so bike.....


And for the record, I still say top gear roll-ons are total bullshit, only a fucking idiot races someone on the highway from any given starting speed without dowshifting to the appropriate gear......

 

[dannymax]

had to close the doors on my small business and work for the man, again....

Good to hear from you again 1/4 Horse, but very sorry about your business. That sucks!!:bang head:

 

[QuarterHorse]

Rusty - I'm pretty sure the 680lb number was out along with the 197 number. There was "talk" about the "race ecu" and all kinds of other BS being thrown at me in that thread that I had to laugh off. Like I said in the past threads, I never bought my VMax to have the fastest thing around, it was just something I wanted. My Busa would walk all over my VMax, had more HP, more TQ, lighter, better traction, better handling even with it stretched out 6 inches, but I don't miss the 'Busa. I do miss my VMax and will have another one some day.

Danny - that's life, I'm still here and kickin'.....

 

[KJShover]

I never bought my VMax to have the fastest thing around, it was just something I wanted.

Thats about obvious, you don't put forwards on a dragbike :biglaugh:

Good to see ya again J. hope you get another ride soon unk:

 

[2stangs69-91]

here's another shot from the other side:

if you look close you will see some of the 60+ parts we polished and powdercoated, as well as the upgraded brakes, plate relocator, turn signal mods, etc.

Nice looking bikes you have. I am curious why you didn't put your evaluation of the performance differrences of both bikes? I saw were you quoted the magazine articles. unless I missed it. Thanks Mike

 

[mnmax]

1570 chain drives do just over 200hp at the wheel



At 370cc's more, does the 1570 kit make 190hp? Thanks Mark, I want one now:bang head: I thought I was getting close to being finished my my bike.[/quote]

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Rusty - I'm pretty sure the 680lb number was out along with the 197 number. There was "talk" about the "race ecu" and all kinds of other BS being thrown at me in that thread that I had to laugh off. Like I said in the past threads, I never bought my VMax to have the fastest thing around, it was just something I wanted. My Busa would walk all over my VMax, had more HP, more TQ, lighter, better traction, better handling even with it stretched out 6 inches, but I don't miss the 'Busa. I do miss my VMax and will have another one some day.

Danny - that's life, I'm still here and kickin'.....

you're correct,

What I was reffering to were all the suppositions that this thing was gonna make 210-240hp, which was all over the place before the official unveiling.....

The Horsepower numbers that were out there in the weeks leading up to the unvieling were closer, most saying 210hp, but I don't think anyone hoping this thing would be a Busa Killer ever dreamed it was gonna come in at 680lbs, most thought more like 550-580....At the most.....

After they said 680lbs any hopes were completely dashed I think.....

I really never heard anyone bitch about the power after the unvieling, but many did about the weight, me included..my first post on the unvieling also commented about what a pig it was at 680, even while holding out hope that the Torque might see it through in the low end runs to 100 mph....

It's also great to see you back here, don't stay gone so long....

 

[QuarterHorse]

KJ - I had the most comfortable VMax I've been on.

Rusty - It's all good, I just had to chuckle a bit to myself when these numbers came out. I laugh at using numbers made by a different bike on a different day to compare to the B-King as well, but I understand the loyalty and don't want to and won't drag the point I made out. I still love the VMax and would LOVE to have another.

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

Actually it's limited to 142 UNLESS the CPU senses it is in a "race" situation (ie all full throttle, all gears) then the limiter doesn't kick in.

your right....which makes this even more peculiar..

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

Numbers are numbers they don't really mean very much unless you put them in perspective. Thought it was interesting that this MC article did not list 0-60 time comparison on the two bikes. (where I live) As a result, I went back and researched a few et times; back in feb. 2008 Cycle World did a test on the King, came up with 0-60 time of 2.7 sec, by comparison the Max was @ 2.7 sec in Cycle World article in Dec. of 2008! A push. By the same token in this same Dec Cycle World article they have the Max top gear roll on 60 - 80 @ 3.0 Sec. the King from Cycle World in Feb. 3.2 Advantage Max! The MC article has the Max 60-80 @ 2.66 and King @ 2.49. So, to my way of thinking when you look at a collection of numbers there is no clear "winner". However seat of the pants evaluations by many put the "feel" of acceleration advangate Max just because of the big V4 and massive torque. Bottom line, even though MC gave a slight advatage to the King on numbers (which can be disputed with the above evidence) they still said the following at the end of the article:
"But just as it was back in '85, there is only one Vmax: Heavy weight Champion of this or any other universe. Advantage Max; end of story!

your sort of supporting my badly made point.... all things being close...that is so close that on some days one bike wins on other days the other bike wins, on thing is clear.... the vmax has shit rear tire and 122 pounds weight.... i think things get a lot more equal on similar rubber..... then all thats left is weight and like i said it isnt a big issue.....

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

BULLSHIT!

I got flamed up and down on this board when I told a few people that in no way shape or form stock for stock the new Max would be beating a new Busa. There were people bashing just to bash as I didn't agree that the Max performance wise would stand up. Now the proof is here and it's all so quiet about it.

I would still LOVE to own the new VMax as I said back in those posts, but damn, how about some humble pie those of you who flamed on?

Just thought I'd pipe up about that.

By the way what's up Chris, Nathan, Jeff, everybody?!?!

(classy signature there....)

I dont thing i was one of those that flamed you, but i did point out the stupidity of developing a bike like the vmax (a drag bike) and it not being fastest. Im not eating humble pie OR you ass, but i will say i am supremely disappointed about all this.... if that makes you happy. I think its a big miss to develop something like this and not have the performance to back it up.
That said, i think there is more to the story... Vmax Guru has developed some tuning to get 194RWHP from Vmax and i belive we are missing the ram air effect on the dyno as well.... But ya stock to stock it doesnt look good.
unless the whole point was to target the HD Destroyer or go after the crusier class i just dont see the point of opening yourself up for such embarasment... id still buy one becuase on the street its a different game than the strip.....but hey, yamaha has all those videos of the max at the strip right?

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

Seems like a good way for Suzuki to unload those unsold B-Kings would be to get a reputable bike magazine to do a head on comparison with the venerable and iconic '09 V Max. Might get people thinking that for a mere $10 grand they can buy a bike that has power comparable to the $18,000 V Max.

Just my opinion but I'm betting this Cyclist article is doing as much to move the B-King as any other effort to date.

interesting point...... it is very close in a lot of ways.... im sure we will see Yamaha friendly numbers soon....

 

[evoluzione]

i just bought another vmax yesterday and put about 100 miles on it. when i got back to the shop i decide to take a quick spin on the b-king and i have to say that back to back (or side by side) these are two totally different bikes. yes, they are the "top dogs" from yamaha & suzuki but other than that it is apples & oranges as far as riding position, handling, etc.. the power is good (ok, great) on both bikes but they serve two different functions. the b-king will be the choice for canyons and the vmax will rule the city.

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

1570 chain drives do just over 200hp at the wheel



At 370cc's more, does the 1570 kit make 190hp? Thanks Mark, I want one now:bang head: I thought I was getting close to being finished my my bike.

[/quote]

makes you kind wonder how you can bore out a 25 year old motor and get as much horsepower as a 1700cc totally redesigned, well funded motorcycle manufactures bike, no? a company that has rossi on motogp bike competing at the top level... .... something aint right....

remember that story about the bike being too powerful? and the infighting at the executive level regarding this? the detuning story?.... id say this thing was made with a lot more power and it got neutered.....either honestly because they management demanded it OR marketing realized they could sell later upgrades to make up the difference.
The delay in release at the last minute spoke to some sort of change....

It was LOGICAL to assume that yamaha would build a vmax to be a real killer.....many said this before..claiming "what the point?"

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

the b-king will be the choice for canyons and the vmax will rule the city.

interesting

iv always found the bking to be an odd product....it should appeal to streetfighter types, but it doesn't.... Streetfighter philosophy stipulates stripping the bike down and simplifing it... the bking is too big to satisfy that.

It should be outh there competing with the super duke, aprilia tuono, MV Brutale, Triumph Speed triple, ...........odd i have NEVER seen a comparison like that. Part of the reason its going away...

on the other hand the max competes with what? vrod, other muscle crusers?

 

[cyclecog]

i just bought another vmax yesterday and put about 100 miles on it. when i got back to the shop i decide to take a quick spin on the b-king and i have to say that back to back (or side by side) these are two totally different bikes. yes, they are the "top dogs" from yamaha & suzuki but other than that it is apples & oranges as far as riding position, handling, etc.. the power is good (ok, great) on both bikes but they serve two different functions. the b-king will be the choice for canyons and the vmax will rule the city.

You made my POINT exactly, think this is pretty much the consensus for anybody that has ridden both. Now, the way that B king looks??? Now that's got to be in the "eye of the beholder"

 

[Buster Hymen]

interesting

iv always found the bking to be an odd product....it should appeal to streetfighter types, but it doesn't.... Streetfighter philosophy stipulates stripping the bike down and simplifing it... the bking is too big to satisfy that.

It should be outh there competing with the super duke, aprilia tuono, MV Brutale, Triumph Speed triple, ...........odd i have NEVER seen a comparison like that. Part of the reason its going away...

on the other hand the max competes with what? vrod, other muscle crusers?

I always thought the BKing was brought out to compete against the VMax. I've been told that the B in BKing stands for Boulevard, which would imply it is a bike destined to be a city hooligan bike like the VMax and not necesarrily for the twisties. It is almost like Suzuki studied the weaker points of the Gen 1 ( suspension, frame, weight) and eliminated them with the BKing. For many the look of the BKing is "too over the top", but in 85, the Gen 1 didn't look like many (or any) current bikes.

 

[Storloc]

I remember reading somewhere quite a while back that the final prototype engine for the Max was making close to 300hp on the test dyno. They also eluded to the fact that it would never see production at those numbers for various reasons. Assuming this is indeed true, thats one impressive mill and should handle mods quite well.