My gen2 started dying when coasting with the clutch pulled...

[Magerly666]

I searched the forum and found others with a similar issue, but it was on gen1 and attributed to the carbs. The issue is the engine dying when I am coasting with the clutch pulled in. In order to start it again with the key, I have to turn the ignition completely off then turn it back on and it will start...but I found popping the clutch while coasting made it start quicker. Unless I kept the rpms up, it would just die again when I pulled the clutch in.

The same thing happened previously two other times, but once restarted it didn't happen again for awhile. On Saturday, I had my bike dyno'd and I was riding home and it kept doing it over and over. I had to keep the rpms up at stop lights. When I made it to my driveway, it idled just fine and did not die while I hit the button to open the garage :/

Could this be attributed to bad gas? I know some gas stations in the Houston area have recently sold bad gas that destroyed peoples cars...

I will be draining the gas out and putting in some from a Chevron or maybe I should run a tank of race gas through it...

Anyone else experience this issue on gen 2s?

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

Well...did the problem happen immediately after getting gas? If yes, suspect bad gas. If not, you can rule it out for the time being but dont completely discredit it. I guess the next question would be, is the bike stock? After market accessories relating to the engine? After that, I would follow up with, have you checked basics? Air filter? Spark plugs? Is your Check Engine Light on? After that....I would be wondering what the fuel pressure of the pump is. I dont have a, "this is it" answer for you. Just gotta start narrowing things down.

 

[D Larson]

Crazy thought. Is the lean sensor bad?
If the bike thinks it was on its side, you have to turn the key off and back on to restart.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Have you checked for fault codes?

 

[Eric Levitz]

I had a similar issue when I changed the clutch. Just to try somthing, if you pull the clutch leaver sensor off it should run, but it will idle strange. I did this, and my bike ran, but did not solve the problem. I put in the old clutch till I could find more answers. I know this isn't so helpful, but it should make you able to ride it till you figure it out.

 

[Magerly666]

Thanks for the replies! I haven't been able to ride and see if it is still doing it. I will tonight after work.

I got gas before the dyno session, that is why I was thinking it could be that (plus we happened to have a discussion about how bad the gas is at different stations in Houston).

I did just change my clutch friction plates before the dyno pull, because although the DD mod stopped most of the clutch slipping I was having, I noticed what seemed like a slight slip...so I went ahead and did the friction plates. I didn't do the steels, because I could not get them in time. I noticed some spots, but I swapped the order and put clean plates where those were (except the 1st plate!)

I did not see any fault codes (do they show up in the display with the fuel gauge..etc?)

Don't think it is the lean sensor, but it is odd I had to turn the key off and on.

The only mods the bike has are Voodoo pipes... In case anyone was wondering, I got 165hp/120 ftlbs torque on a Factory Pro EC997a dyno.

 

[02GF74]

This is a strange one.

I did just change my clutch friction plates before the dyno pull,...

You don't mention that before.

List everything that was changed from the point where this problem started.

I'd be surprised if it was the fuel but it is not a difficult thing to drain the tank and replace with known "good" fuel to rule that out.

You say you took it to the dyno, were any engine settings changed?

Can we rule out something wasn't damaged on the dyno?

 

[Eric Levitz]

Mine happend after the clutch, and I figured it could be 2 things:
1 the basket has pitting and is not letting the frictions separate ( the old ones edges were worn, hence no problem, only with new fresh edges that meet the basket) .
2 the stack was out of speck not measured properly and is causing the issue for whatever reason.

This is what I thought for mine, put the old one in measured it up. And it worked fine.
Im going to try again soon to see if I can get the new one in without the problem .

 

[Magerly666]

You don't mention that before.

Well, this exact issue happened before I did anything clutch related, albeit it only would do it once then that was it, then once again weeks later...not over and over and over in a row. Then when I get home, after having to keep the rpms up at each stoplight or it would die, I needed to use my right hand to press the garage door button, so I let go expecting it to die and it idled just like normal. :/

Started it up yesterday and it idled just fine. I am going for a ride in an hour and see if it wants to do it when I get the clutch hot.

I still have the same "bad" gas in it from the other day...if it starts doing it again, I will drain the gas and put fresh in and see if I can get it to do it again...just to rule out the gas issue.

You say you took it to the dyno, were any engine settings changed?

Nothing was changed. Just wanted to get a baseline hp reading before I start ECU/Air Box modding.

I do not think anything broke on the dyno, as it seemed like the pulls were normal and I would think the dyno operator would have noticed or heard something break...but I can't say for certain.

 

[Magerly666]

UPDATE!!!

Well this is becoming the strangest issue. I went for a ride last night and the bike ran great. No dying when coasting with the clutch pulled in.

Decided to ride it to work this morning and about 10 minutes into the ride, it started dying again. I had to rev it at stop lights to keep it running. I tried to take note of anything that seemed to trigger it, but there was nothing I could tell. About 5 mins from work, it started idling normal again! :/

I rode home and it didn't do it once...even when I had to stop a million times, because 4 stop lights were out and the cars were backed up.

I am at a loss as to what it could be...perhaps electrical? I ruled out bad gas, because it would be a constant problem I would think.

Could it be a sensor? Is there one that would shut off the engine for whatever reason?

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

When you say dying...is it a complete shut off? Or is it a sputter then stall? Complete dying.....maybe kickstand switch? Does the bike spend time outside? My Virago would shut off while riding, then it would kick back on backfiring out the exhaust. It was the main power switch. Cause the bike was outside 24/7 back then....it was corroded.

If its sputtering then dying, I would look into fuel pressure first.

 

[Magerly666]

It is straight up dying, no sputtering. Its like the rpm drop kills the engine. I have to turn the bike off then on to get it to start, unless I have enough forward momentum, then I pop the clutch and it starts up.

I keep it in the garage.

 

[02GF74]

Best leave it in the garage.

The pulling in the clutch could a red herring. The engine runs because it is fed fuel or if the throttle is closed, it is kept turning by the rear wheel through the gearbox.

There's no definite pattern like it needs to be in a certain gear, fully warmed up...?

Gen 2 don't have centre stand right? Else I'd suggest running the engine on the stand put it in gear (1 or 2), then try the clutch.

I would guess if it was mechanical it would do it more consistently and it would get better or worse whereas electrical faults tend to be more random.....but these are not fixed rules.

On then gen 1 there is a cut out that prevents the engine from starting when in gear, and on the Z1000 I seem to recall the clutch needs to be in for starting, so I'd be looking at the component that form the equivalent on the gen 2.

Are there any aftermarket parts fitted such as an alarm extra lights, quick shifter or electoral parts not standard for example LED lights?

How old is the battery?

 

[MaxMidnight]

I'll repeat this as you didn't respond the first time

Have you checked for fault codes?

We can all guess at what may be the issue but doing so may well waste your time and perhaps money.
Start gathering facts and a good place to start is what I'm suggesting.

Modern ECU's continually monitor their systems and will record anything that falls outside of the set parameters. If a fault is recorded then you will save yourself a lot of aggrovation as you will have a starting point to correct the problem.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

I'll repeat this as you didn't respond the first time

Have you checked for fault codes?

We can all guess at what may be the issue but doing so may well waste your time and perhaps money.
Start gathering facts and a good place to start is what I'm suggesting.

Modern ECU's continually monitor their systems and will record anything that falls outside of the set parameters. If a fault is recorded then you will save yourself a lot of aggrovation as you will have a starting point to correct the problem.

What he said. This would be my diagnostic path as well.

I would also go and suggest maybe the exhaust cam compression releases. Maybe I am wrong on how the system works. But maybe they are partially engaged at times? I would still be looking at main power switch, sidestand switch as main culprits. Ignition switch too.

 

[Magerly666]

I did not see any fault codes (do they show up in the display with the fuel gauge..etc?)

I did reply to that question. Since then I read in the manual that they are displayed in the upper left corner and I have been keeping an eye on it but no codes. I assume it will show any automatically, or do I have to be in another mode on the screen?

Rode to work this morning and home and it did it both times. Two things I noticed were, when I first start it the rpms are at 1100...when it starts messing up, the idle rpms after pulling the clutch in go down to about 600...then it dies. Every time It would do it, they would drop below 1000 and then it would drop to 0. The next thing I noticed (and I only tested it on the ride home) is when it would die and I wasn't moving, by turning the key off then on it would start, but it didn't mess up the rest of the way home. The idle was more around 900-1000. It like reset or something...if that makes sense.

I appreciate all the assistance everyone has been giving... I will keep trying to gather more data. I was thinking of trying to record it when it happens, that way you can see what I see, but I need to put a camera on my helmet.

 

[02GF74]

The next thing I noticed (and I only tested it on the ride home) is when it would die and I wasn't moving, by turning the key off then on it would start, but it didn't mess up the rest of the way home. The idle was more around 900-1000. It like reset or something.

Are you saying you were stationary, in neutral, and pulled the clutch in and the engine stalled?

Is this repeatable?

Don't read too much into idle rpm, it is usual for rpm to be higher before engine warms up to operating temperature.

Re. Error codes, I'm not familiar with gen 2 but are they all accessible from the instrument panel?

Generally manufacturers design stuff to display an engine warning that requires the vehicle to be taken to a dealer where they have diagnostic equipment to get detailed codes (done so they can make money from you, LOL)

maybe worth investigating that route.

You could be pissing around a long time with this plus it is not exactly safe to have engine cut out.

 

[Magerly666]

Are you saying you were stationary, in neutral, and pulled the clutch in and the engine stalled?

No, I mean I was coming to a stop light, pulled the clutch in and it died right before I stopped. I didn't have enough forward momentum to pop the clutch and it restart. So at the light, I had to turn the key off and on again in order to be able to start it.

This is what it says in the manual about the error codes:



I get no codes or engine trouble light. I am about to take it out with a camera pointing at the rpms, so you can see what it is doing.

 

[2017VMax]

It sounds like you are stalling the bike, like being in the wrong gear at low speed. I'm sure you are changing gears properly , but is there some way the gears are not switched properly? I never looked into how the bike linkages are set up but maybe someone else knows of a way that could be happening. Although if you have to turn the key off to get it to start, that sounds more like the bike was on it's side. Strange indeed. The only thing that comes to mind is an issue with the ecu. I hope you can figure it out soon.

 

[MaxMidnight]

The ECU has a diagnostic mode for when the engine is performing abnormally but the engine warning light has not come on.

This is described in the Service Manual, section 8-36 describes how to enter this mode and the errors you may find.