New York & gun control

[ZackDaniels]

No I'm not kidding you. I sincerely believe that a school should not have the same expectation of conflict as a battlefield.

Following your line of thought though, somebody is going to have to pay for their training and the policies to put it all in place, keep it up to date, etc. Do we want to have everybody foot the bill for it, or should we look at ways of keeping psychos from getting armed and pay for that instead?

I don't know. Arming/training teachers just feels like fixing a symptom. The problem of crazy people and irresponsible kids getting their hands on weapons is still very much there.

 

[RaWarrior]

Unfortunately I don't think the issue of keeping guns away from crazies is ever going to be "solved" 100%. It's just not feasible. There's way too many people and way too many guns floating around. Technically nobody under 21 should be able to get their hands on a case of beer.....

People likely to shoot up a movie theater or school are just too hard to pick out of the crowd. Even if somehow 99% of these people are kept away from guns, all it takes is one person who steals one, gets one from a back alley dealer, has someone else buy it for them, whatever and goes beserk with it.

As said these tougher gun laws proposed make it harder for the law abiding people to have one, and zero effect on the people who own them illegally anyway.

This is a problem that really doesn't seem to have a good solution. Inherent problem in society.

 

[dannymax]

Guns have absolutely nothing to do with the drive to commit these awful crimes, they're simply tools to accomplish them. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that ALL guns are removed....it's ridiculous, but assume it anyway. Has total removal of the guns done one single thing to change the mind set of one of the 'crazies?' Does he suddenly see everything in a nice soft blue light? **** no! He still wants to fulfill his mental mission.....so what are his choices? Well, there's a gas station right down the street, there's some nice stuff available there, he's got his Dad's pick-up truck he could take for a cruise thru the bus loading area when school lets out...........there's no end to the resources available to the motivated individual!

I don't have the answers, not even real sure what the real questions are, but I'm extremely glad I'm not one of the unfortunates whose responsibility it is to resolve this....cause it's a career ender for sure!

I'm going to work on my recently acquired tendency to over-react, think that's the best thing for my old Irish head!!
oooooooooo-ooommmmmmmm.....oooooooooo-ooommmmmmmmm :eusa_snooty:

 

[Rollie]

No I'm not kidding you. I sincerely believe that a school should not have the same expectation of conflict as a battlefield.

Following your line of thought though, somebody is going to have to pay for their training and the policies to put it all in place, keep it up to date, etc. Do we want to have everybody foot the bill for it, or should we look at ways of keeping psychos from getting armed and pay for that instead?

I don't know. Arming/training teachers just feels like fixing a symptom. The problem of crazy people and irresponsible kids getting their hands on weapons is still very much there.

O.K. , NOW we're concerned about money ? How much has been spent every year for decades on education and still their the grades can't keep up with many other countries who spend much less. If the kids are going to be less educated , I would at least hope they would be safe.

 

[Traumahawk]

We can try to solve more than 1 problem at a time. Especially if they're not related in any way. It's more than simple number of fatalities/wounded anyway. Everybody in one of these schools, the movie theater, or in a bad situation like this has their life's course rocked. Teachers shouldn't need to be as alert as soldiers.



I am in no way condoning gun violence, but at some point in time, everyone will have their life rocked by something......whether it be the death of a loved one, or a major injury, heck....even losing your job. How you deal with these life changing events says more about who you are then you wins or loses ever do.

To me it starts and ends with the parents. TEACHING their kids right from wrong. For every BAD decision.....there are conquences. In an earlier time (more sensible...if you ask me) if a child messed up (even if the child was an adult) it brought shame to the family. I remember parents being ashamed being their child grew up and robbed a liqour store, and killed someone.

If you really want to kill someone, you will find away...whether it is a rock, a club, or a knife. Someone that has been trained in Kali, or Escrima, will slice you to ribbons before you can blink. All with a little 3 inch knife that is LEGAL to carry.

~ We have met the enemy...and they is us~ POGO

 

[dannymax]

This is an email sent to me by Midsouth Shooters Supply....I think it is significant for not only New Yorkers but every gun enthusiast in the country for the simple reason that if Cuomo can ram this through that sets precident and you can bet other states will jump on the bandwagon.

[FONT=verdana,arial]Having trouble viewing this email? Click here ​

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​

Special Bulletin to our Valued New York CustomersNew York Customers,
We are certain that many of you are aware of what is going on in your great state, but we wanted to encourage you to inform yourself and act now! Please contact your legislators to oppose the proposed legislation from Governor Cuomo. This legislation would effect gun and ammo sales in the Empire State.​

Here are a few of the items included in the proposal:

1. An outright ban on ALL modern sporting rifles. Governor Cuomo even suggested confiscating legally owned firearms!
2. Outlawing all semiautomatic hunting shotguns with a pistol grip.
3. Further restricting your ability to defend yourself and family by arbitrarily restricting the magazine size. New York already restricts magazine capacity 10 rounds and seeks to furthur reduce magazine capacity to 7 rounds.
4. Limiting how much ammunition you can purchase AND possess.
5. Registration of all ammunition purchases.
6. Statewide New York City style gun registration; knowing full well criminals won't ever register their guns.
7. Re-registration and permit renewal every 5 years with ever increasing fees.
8. Mandatory gun storage laws, like the one the US Supreme Court struck down in the Heller decision.

Anti-gun Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver said Wednesday that the back room deal is 95 percent agreed to.

Here's how to act:

Contact Governor Cuomo​

Contact Your State Senator​

Contact Your Assembly Member​

​

Demand that they respect your Second Amendment rights and not support legislation that burdens or harasses YOU, the law abiding gun owner!​

​

Sincerely,​

Midsouth Shooters Supply​

​

​

 

[Traumahawk]

Along the same lines....

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

I think that we need to make our voices heard on what we want, and not to allow people to make laws that affect us, without our say so.

 

[dannymax]

The NYS Legislature is in session right now, high on their agenda is voting on the proposed gun control legislation....very little hard info has been released other than the 'behind closed doors' deal was 95% complete, as of last night.

One item on the bill calls for restricting magazine capacity to 7 rounds....I don't have info on anything else. By the time any real info gets released it will probly be law.

 

[donnelly317]

Im scared I don't have my pistol liscense yet... but I do have my black gun

 

[ouchez]

Zack, with your liberal view of gov. debts, the cost of a few part time retired cops, already covered under health insurance, and not working in the summer, seems a very low price to pay to protect our children.

I have a great idea, let us take it out of the foreign aid budget, I heard Israel and Egypt can get by with a lot less than the several Billion$ dollars we give them each year.:clapping:

O

 

[Traumahawk]

I have a great idea, let us take it out of the foreign aid budget, I heard Israel and Egypt can get by with a lot less than the several Billion$ dollars we give them each year.:clapping:

O

You know thats one thing that I never could understand...why do we pay money to people that dont like us.......if we quit paying, does this mean that they are gonna like us any less?

 

[ZackDaniels]

Zack, with your liberal view of gov. debts, the cost of a few part time retired cops, already covered under health insurance, and not working in the summer, seems a very low price to pay to protect our children.

I agree, could boost the economy some too. I just mention it because the last time Fox news was all bent out of shape about a teachers strike loads of people were up in arms about how well off teachers are, and how we spend too much money on our education system as it is. Just saying it would create more jobs at the direct expense of the taxpayer.

I'm ok with that if it's effective, but as you pointed out: I'm not the one raging about limited government, a need to lower taxes, and eliminate debt.

:edit:
'A few part time cops' make what? 20k a year? There are 98,817 public schools in the US today. That's a $1,976,340 cost assuming 1 armed part time officer per school on salary alone. Not to mention benefits, insurance, equipment, pensions, etc. All out of your city and county budgets that are going to have to raise your property and sales taxes as a result. Also, since we're staunchly opposed to socialism this cost should only effect gun and ammo sales taxes since this is a proposal to allow the continued use of guns, and it should only be paid out of the property taxes of those households that have children. Can't have it both ways.

 

[forestdaledave]

I saw Cuomo on TV today and his proposal. It wasn't the same as the shooter's supply, Danny. Since you live in N.Y. you might go to the horse's mouth on that one.
David

 

[forestdaledave]

More deeds by the NRA.
http://news.yahoo.com/government-stifled-gun-research-235107279.html

Maybe the NRA is a terrorist organization. Sure doesn't sound to be very responsible in the least.

David

 

[dannymax]

I saw Cuomo on TV today and his proposal. It wasn't the same as the shooter's supply, Danny. Since you live in N.Y. you might go to the horse's mouth on that one.
David

I agree Dave....Good info has been pretty hard to obtain as most of this is a closed door deal but we'll know today cause the Senate passed it sometime last night and it's expected to be greased on thru the Assembly this morning. I did write the governor about it....got his reply very quickly but all he said was to thank me for helping him build a stronger New York......I think he missed my point! :confused2:

I liked what the senator from the Bronx said...."This won't affect gun violence, all it does is put the governor one step closer to the white house."

 

[donnelly317]

WERE ALL ******!!! Im reading threw the 39 pages of this bill today! all ive seen so far is you citizens should not have the right to bare arms lol.
shinlers list?

 

[dannymax]

WERE ALL ******!!! Im reading threw the 39 pages of this bill today! all ive seen so far is you citizens should not have the right to bare arms lol.
shinlers list?

How are they proposing to handle the 7 rd maximum capacity regarding rifles like the SKS that have a 10 rd fixed magazine? Or is the 7 rd only applicable to detachable mags?

 

[ZackDaniels]

Just want to point out here's Obama's comments yesterday on the Federal stuff.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS...steps-biden-recommendations/story?id=18213068

There is no fed bill yet. The New York bill is it's own thing, and not :damn angry: DAMN OBAMA TAKEN OUR GUNS!!! :damn angry:

Here are the highlights from the NY bill:
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/crime/article/Highlights-of-NY-gun-control-bill-4193665.php

It doesn't look like they've posted it on their state legislation site yet, or at least I'm unable to find it. Anybody know the bill #?

How are they proposing to handle the 7 rd maximum capacity regarding rifles like the SKS that have a 10 rd fixed magazine? Or is the 7 rd only applicable to detachable mags?

—Restrict ammunition magazines to seven bullets, from the current national standard of 10. Current owners of higher-capacity magazines would have a year to sell them out of state. Someone caught with eight or more bullets in a magazine could face a misdemeanor charge.

The solution seems to be if you have a larger capacity mag you are required by law to only load 7 bullets in it. :rofl_200:

This is seriously dumb ****.

 

[dannymax]

Can't find a bill #

Wonder what the response will be next year when there's no change in gun crimes....or more probly, an increase.

I do like the provision re removing CCW holders from FOIA request....altho a little suspicious of the language...."provide a method where pistol permit holders........"

One has to wonder what this 'method' might consist of.

Altho if there is any good in all that crap it's far overshadowed by mandatory assault weapon registration....which marks the first very obvious step down that slippery slope!

And don't kid yourselves into thinking this will be isolated to NY....not a chance!

 

[forestdaledave]

Some of the stuff in N.Y. law does seem to be just cosmetic. Or I just don't understand. Making it a special condition to shoot someone because they are first responders? WTF. People who do this sort of thing are not rational so why expect they they would be detered? It isn't easy.
david