Odd clicking sound from the rear diff

[gamorg02]

Yep, I know that pain in the ass!

Curently when I want to take off the rear wheel I need to unbolt the diff completly, the rear shock with linkage and the rear caliper LOL

me too. so the noise disappears once the bike is turned off for about 1 minute 30 seconds. so its tough to troubleshoot.

loosening the rear axle nut helps, but not much

loosening the acorn nuts on the rear diff didn't help, just made the tire bind against the swingarm. retightened again to make sure nothing was off.

i tried running the bike, shut down, pop the axle out quick, that helped much more.

i'm wondering if its the cush drive against the rubber bushings in the rim. it doesn't sound metallicy like bearings nor does it come on at the same part in the rotation every time..

 

[tugla]

just for fun garrett, take the caliper off. try eliminating everything around it is all im getting at, i know its not a caliper issue but im just curious if it makes it more constant or not.

 

[tugla]

no loose screws on the disk either eh?

 

[gamorg02]

just for fun garrett, take the caliper off. try eliminating everything around it is all im getting at, i know its not a caliper issue but im just curious if it makes it more constant or not.

i can def try, but 99.9% sure its not coming from that side. had some mechanics stethoscope on that side and it was a bit quieter. plus i chased braked problems for a while. i can hear the pads against the rotor and its not that...

no loose screws on the disk either eh?

shouldnt' be but i can' double check. just put them on. blue loctite and 18 ft lbs.

 

[tugla]

maybe a video of the sound might help out

 

[gamorg02]

maybe a video of the sound might help out

Here's the best I could do. It sounds worse in the vid tho. Never sounds metallically or wooden, more rubbery or creaky like floorboards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygORGlDxBrg&sns=em

 

[tugla]

almost sound u-joint ish

 

[gamorg02]

Could be but the noise def is more toward the rear...

almost sound u-joint ish

 

[tugla]

ya hard to tell by the video, cameras pick up on soo much sound......guess there is no way of putting a reg rim on now eh garrett to see if that can make the same noise, bring notched and all , not sure if you even have a stock rim kicking around anymore

 

[gamorg02]

No I do have my old I can throw on. I may do that to double check.


Just not a 5 min process anymore! Gotta remove rear diff to get the wheel off..

ya hard to tell by the video, cameras pick up on soo much sound......guess there is no way of putting a reg rim on now eh garrett to see if that can make the same noise, bring notched and all , not sure if you even have a stock rim kicking around anymore

 

[tugla]

oh really, that sux but in the long run to make sure nothing is wrong with your radial set up im sure its worth it. dont want to find out the hard way something is rubbing or going to bind.

why do you have to take the arm off? to get it to move over enough to slid out the rim?

 

[gamorg02]

don't have ot remove the arm, just the rear diff. theres not enough room between the diff and the other side of the swingarm to fit the 190 tire..

 

[satariel666]

That vid means only one Garret!

Im sure that Im right.
Neddle bearing.

Bealive me mate, I know that sound!

 

[tugla]

so what happens to them, installed wrong, over tight on the axle nut?, bad batch?

 

[satariel666]

Im not sure exactly :ummm:

 

[gamorg02]

gonna try one more thing. i did about 180 miles today and it got no better or worse really. it made the noise loudly once when i pakred, put the bike in gear and let it roll against until the gear grabbed. i wonder if that points at anything?

anywho, i want to try to remove the shock and re-torque down the final drive. i know, it probably won't fix it but i'm def avoiding diggin into the wheel again...

 

[gamorg02]

Przemek and all:

I did some troubleshooting. i think it *may* be the swingarm. So I found, when cold I can get it to do the creak if I put it in gear, pop the bike on the centerstand and then push the tire against where the gear engages (backwards or forwards). no amount of loosening and re-tightening the final drive with or without the shock on helped eliminate the noise.

however, when I pop the axle out so the thick part is out of the 'collar' the creaking is gone. and getting the axle into the collar seems harder than before. also there is a lot less room to get the brake stay arm and the washer. I will talk to sean about this in the AM as he made the swingarm.

so thinking it might be the swingarm i popped the new wheel/tire off and put the final drive back on and popped the old rim and tire on, well I couldn't reproduce it. however the bike was cold and I didn't run it (which I should have) but there was no noise. (now i'm confused)

so i put the new tire/rim back on (pain in the ass) and tighten everything down, no squeaks! yay! start the bike up run it thru the gears for a minute or two. damn. creak is gone when in gear and pushing against where it stops, but in neutral i can still hear it creaking. I even swapped the inner race and brake side spacer from the known good wheel to the new wheel.

also when i had it apart i put the new wheel with axle on some jackstands and spun it. no noises, no visible runout of rim (as expected tiny bit on the tire)

also i tried no rim, just putting the axle through with the final drive, and it still didn't want to slide back in perfectly, so i'm still not convinced its NOT the swingarm, but why one rim does it and the other wont I do not know, they are both OEM hubs.

As requested i snapped some pics of the needle bearing inner race. the bearings still seem smooth on the new one, much better than the old one. click on the pics to have them enlarged, and most of them are of the same spot with me running my finger over it to show what is gunk and what is actually marked up. the one ring on there could have been left over from long ago, the inner race is 25 years old.

 

[tugla]

if pulling the axle reliefs it a little bit to stop the noise, i think you are getting close there garrett. do you have another axle to try for fun. also something to put thru the hole to check alignment of the swing arm?

 

[veebooster]

I think your'e heading in the right direction. Yours sound very familiar to the way mine was. (although yours sounds louder) Everyone swore it was a needle bearing.
It is best described as "creaking". I posted the TSB from the venture group on alignment last year.

I ran into this problem when I put on a reinforced swingarm. During the above mentioned process I determined that my swingarm was somewhat distorted when reinforced. It puts an odd pressure through the system causing the creaking and clicking. On mine the actual opening of the swingarm was ever so slightly smaller than stock. I had to remove the spacer washer on the caliber side to get more room and realign the pumpkin. Smooth now!!
I think it's your swingarm causing some type presssure through the wheel/pumpkin when torqued down..:ummm:

Dale #2592

 

[gamorg02]

if pulling the axle reliefs it a little bit to stop the noise, i think you are getting close there garrett. do you have another axle to try for fun. also something to put thru the hole to check alignment of the swing arm?

well i put it through with just the rear diff on and it still wasn't 100% lined up, not much else i could do there. almost like the rear diff wasn't sitting on the right plane, which makes sense if the brake side of the swingarm was a bit 'in' than it should be.

I think your'e heading in the right direction. Yours sound very familiar to the way mine was. (although yours sounds louder) Everyone swore it was a needle bearing.
It is best described as "creaking". I posted the TSB from the venture group on alignment last year.

I ran into this problem when I put on a reinforced swingarm. During the above mentioned process I determined that my swingarm was somewhat distorted when reinforced. It puts an odd pressure through the system causing the creaking and clicking. On mine the actual opening of the swingarm was ever so slightly smaller than stock. I had to remove the spacer washer on the caliber side to get more room and realign the pumpkin. Smooth now!!
I think it's your swingarm causing some type presssure through the wheel/pumpkin when torqued down..:ummm:

Dale #2592

thanks dale. i can try with the spacer removed but i don't think it'll gain me anything....

creaking can still be heard if theres NO brake arm and the axle is through the collar properly...

Also just so everyone knows. i can live with the noise if we determine its no biggy, i just don't wanan have to buy a new diff or if I need new bearings want it done sooner rather than later. i'm just trying to dot my i's and cross my t's, if its just creaking and nothing to worry about i don't care all that much....

also not a hint of anything squirrelly when on it. mike from springfield can attest to that with his shit eating grin he had when he got back.. heh