Buster Hymen
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2006
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How long until the first one is stolen?? Time to start a poll....
Help Support VMAX Forum:
Damn, temper temper! It was just curiousity that I asked. I'm only getting 32mpg on my current Max and wondered what the new one would get with FI and much larger engine. Would there be an improvement or would it get worse. Either way it wouldn't cause me to not want to purchase, unless of course it got 5mpg then there may be a problem.
KJShover
Proud Vmax lover
Obviously a few ppl do otherwise the topic wouldn't have come up and been replyed to.
Silver-Bolt
Member
I would be more than happy with 32mpg. My V-Twin 1000cc 130whp Aprilia only gets 25-27mpg if I ride half way reasonable. Fuel light is on at 100 miles consistantly. At about 115 miles you are walking. It is fuel injected.
Same goes for my 550cc Supermoto, about 25 mpg. That one I only get about 60 miles before the light is on. But it is 60 of the funest miles you can ride.
Same goes for my 550cc Supermoto, about 25 mpg. That one I only get about 60 miles before the light is on. But it is 60 of the funest miles you can ride.
I just quoted it for myself through Progressive and got a rate of $450 a year for full coverage with no medical.
That said, after it hits the street, Progressive may change the rating of it. I once had a Boss Hoss insured for a real reasonable rate. It stayed like that for a couple of years before they figured out that what they were. On his second renewal, the rate over doubled.
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Hercules
Well-Known Member
Here is what John Furber over at the VMOA website had to say he's not too happy!
As a 'Classic VMAX' vendor,
(new term...I like the sound of it actually...)
I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to Yamaha, for making the price of the new VMAX so ridiculous that it makes 'hopping up' the VMAXs we already own a much more viable option...After all this time, waiting and wondering, it certainly is a load off my mind from a business standpoint...
As an enthusiast, and a VMAX 'junkie', however, I am disgusted, outraged, and downright offended.
After all these years of making money on an outdated motorcycle,
(the tooling and R&D costs were paid for a LONG time ago...)
and forcing VMAXers to spend extra money just to make them safe and handle decently, when a simple trip to the 'parts bin', for better brakes, suspension, and wheels, would have gone a looong way...,
And NOW you (finally) come out with a New MAX, that is STILL heavy, STILL has limited fuel capacity, at THOUSANDS more than its' competition...???
(BTW, Suzuki is having a PARTY, and licking it's chops, at the thought of a heads-up comparison with the B-King...Let's see...THOUSANDS cheaper, 150 lbs less, and the same kind of HP..)
Hey, just curious...
IF indeed the New MAX has the HP that is rumored, then WHY NOT splash it all over the intro...Like Yamaha did in 85...Hmmm...I wonder...Looks like the 2nd coming of the VTX 1800 HP 'rumor mill', and we all know where THAT ended up...
LOTS OF LUCK hyping the all-new 'Yama-Rune'...
You're going to need it.
BTW, THANX for making my 'Classic VMAX such a rare bird...
If 2500 units to the States in a year makes the New VMAX a "limited model", then what would you consider 1000 a year...??? That's how many you sent, on average, to the States,
(actually, North America, for the last 23...or 22, to be exact...No 87, except CAN...)
and you had to discount many of these each year to sell THAT MANY...
This pricepoint is simply one more indicator of how Yamaha, and Star, view VMAX owners in general, and it doesn't feel very fuzzy...
(it does feel WARM, but NOT a good smell...LOL)
(Does this mean we FINALLY get to see a VMAX in the Star displays at rallies...???)
After all these years of waiting, THIS is an insult to the intelligence of VMAX owners, and we ARE a pretty smart bunch overall...
We may have the money, but we're NOT your typical H-D or Star 'sheep'...
Hi-tech IS pricey, but not THAT pricey...
(according to your logic, the Can-Am Spyder, with all of its' high-tech gadgetry, and a 3-wheeler to boot, should be 30K+...THANK GOD those folks don't have your logic.. or more likely, your greed...)
Price it right, or they will sit in your warehouses, until you get tired of looking at them, and realize your Rune-ous blunder, and come back to reality.
I will be patiently waiting to buy one then, and ONLY then.
John Furbur
RMSportMax
1-610-509-VMAX(8629
As a 'Classic VMAX' vendor,
(new term...I like the sound of it actually...)
I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to Yamaha, for making the price of the new VMAX so ridiculous that it makes 'hopping up' the VMAXs we already own a much more viable option...After all this time, waiting and wondering, it certainly is a load off my mind from a business standpoint...
As an enthusiast, and a VMAX 'junkie', however, I am disgusted, outraged, and downright offended.
After all these years of making money on an outdated motorcycle,
(the tooling and R&D costs were paid for a LONG time ago...)
and forcing VMAXers to spend extra money just to make them safe and handle decently, when a simple trip to the 'parts bin', for better brakes, suspension, and wheels, would have gone a looong way...,
And NOW you (finally) come out with a New MAX, that is STILL heavy, STILL has limited fuel capacity, at THOUSANDS more than its' competition...???
(BTW, Suzuki is having a PARTY, and licking it's chops, at the thought of a heads-up comparison with the B-King...Let's see...THOUSANDS cheaper, 150 lbs less, and the same kind of HP..)
Hey, just curious...
IF indeed the New MAX has the HP that is rumored, then WHY NOT splash it all over the intro...Like Yamaha did in 85...Hmmm...I wonder...Looks like the 2nd coming of the VTX 1800 HP 'rumor mill', and we all know where THAT ended up...
LOTS OF LUCK hyping the all-new 'Yama-Rune'...
You're going to need it.
BTW, THANX for making my 'Classic VMAX such a rare bird...
If 2500 units to the States in a year makes the New VMAX a "limited model", then what would you consider 1000 a year...??? That's how many you sent, on average, to the States,
(actually, North America, for the last 23...or 22, to be exact...No 87, except CAN...)
and you had to discount many of these each year to sell THAT MANY...
This pricepoint is simply one more indicator of how Yamaha, and Star, view VMAX owners in general, and it doesn't feel very fuzzy...
(it does feel WARM, but NOT a good smell...LOL)
(Does this mean we FINALLY get to see a VMAX in the Star displays at rallies...???)
After all these years of waiting, THIS is an insult to the intelligence of VMAX owners, and we ARE a pretty smart bunch overall...
We may have the money, but we're NOT your typical H-D or Star 'sheep'...
Hi-tech IS pricey, but not THAT pricey...
(according to your logic, the Can-Am Spyder, with all of its' high-tech gadgetry, and a 3-wheeler to boot, should be 30K+...THANK GOD those folks don't have your logic.. or more likely, your greed...)
Price it right, or they will sit in your warehouses, until you get tired of looking at them, and realize your Rune-ous blunder, and come back to reality.
I will be patiently waiting to buy one then, and ONLY then.
John Furbur
RMSportMax
1-610-509-VMAX(8629
V-max wet weight = 683
B-King wet weight = 572 (according to "rider" magazine)
Still there is 100 + pounds difference.
Woe is Yamaha if they advertise the Max as the quickest production bike and it loses a drag race to the B-King by a bike mag. Not saying it will, it would just be ugly PR. Surely Yamaha knew what it was doing...
Id say by writing that he has just screwed himself with all the new vmax owners who will be buying and looking to hop up...dumb dumb dumb.
Has this guys ever been to a bike nite???? vrods in the same price range rollin in with 1000s of dollars work... Christ what is up with this ass backward livin in the 80s mentality..... for instance here is my buddy, a construction worker no less, just sold his old softale for 8 grand and bought a brand spankin new dyna....nothing outrageous at all....25000 all in!! and he is getting ready for work on it already....
My friend who owns EuroCorsa regularly gets ducati owners who have spent say 20 grand on a 1098 . they walk in and buy 5000 grand of **** in an hour..... keep in mind those bike prices guys.... these are doctors and lawyers here....regular folk......
I have no beef with john...seems like a great guy in all....but his business sense is off..... he should be looking to expand his business into a very lucritive area of the market...... that market is coming and as any business guy knows you need to change with the times.... while continuing to support you base business.....
We will see stuff before the end of next year for sure..... im dead certain you will 280 kits out there... especially with the new two u-joint swing arm shaft thats on the new max....
Johns heart is in the right place, but that letter dosent do anything...maybe inspires like minded customers....but what about the guy who has 20 grand (me) and wants to spend it? guess im not good enough eh....
And frankly...as a new owner...im "outraged" at being accused of owning a pig bike by a vender who i have supported with my business in the past....thanks a lot man...
I completely agree with you, but....
After talking to a few vmax vendors, one who I know well. They say the majority of Vmaxers are cheap, reserved or however you want to term it.
Yes there are quite a few guys doing big dollar mods, but for the most part most vmax owners wont even spend money on full exhausts or wheels etc.
This is coming from the vmax vendors i know and buy from. these statements were made over the past years. So these are not comments made out of retaliation for the new max.
Between the VMOA and here, I have only seen one person claim they put the money down.
furbur the big whiner that he is, i do see his side.
Again, very well stated RJ and might I add this that ties into what you said~
In my current business, there is a *LOT* of competition in the marketplace and also a lot of product design "pirating" between companies. Heck, 4 of my own product designs that I entirely engineered here from scratch have been shamelessly copied by my competition where they come out and falsely claim, "Look at our stuff, it's all new"- even though is a direct copy of my product! Then they go out and under-cut me to take away my business that I worked so hard to earn. They have not a shred of business or personal ethics among them combined......
However, I had not lowered my prices as a result of that, even though I've lost some business because of it. That's ok with me though to some extent....
I've remained true to my product and continually revise it's design to answer market demands- which ironically won't happen coming from a "knock-off" companies product when a cheap person buys from them, since all that company is doing is simply "copying" the product like the Chinese do, not fully engineering or fully understanding the product's design to the high level as we would, being the pioneering source.
I understand that there will always be the cheap-***** out there that will spend a dollar to save a dime and to be quite honest, I don't even want that type of customer anyway, as they are typically a pain in the ass to deal with from start to finish... I'd much rather deal with a guy that understands quality and is willing to pay a fair price for a proven product from the leaders in the industry, (whatever that is) and let the cheap-skate folks go elseware.....
Interestingly enough, our sales have actually *INCREASED* since the product "pirates" have come around, because everyone knows with 100% certainty that when they buy our product from us, it will perform as expected due to it's proven design and the customer service/support will always be there after the sale. That's simple Economics 101......
Personally, I think the new VMAX falls under this catagory as RJ said and just like everything else, folks will eventually come around. Folks will pay for premium quality if the product is proven and successful as claimed, even if they don't like to- as I know I fall into this catagory.
I asked a successsful businessman freind of mine how to price a product right for the market like he does his and here is what he told me~
1. "Price it to cheap and you'll be swamped with business, but you won't make any money"
2. "Price it too expensive for what it is, no one will buy and you won't make any money"
3. "Price it just right and folks will still bitch about the high cost of the product, but they'll still buy because they know what it is and you'll make money"
I think I fall under the 3rd. statement type of consumer- especially with the new bike and that's fine with me.
- john
thanks and i do see the point....i was trying to not to offend anyone.
Here is how the vmax market shakes out...
The bike has been around for 25 years...there are lots on the market....so id say your average enthusiast probably bought a 5 year old one.....payed maybe 4-6000 for it in decent but well used shape...cleaned it up with elbow grease and sweat.... maybe bought new bias ply tires and brake pads... added a few simple odds and ends like lights or grips etc... and this guy is happy....in a few years he drills out the pipes or springs for a nice exhaust which is big money for him and now the bike sounds good and he is happy. (and i just want to say i dont pass judgment on this guy...this is the grass roots of the hobby for any motorcycle type and is what usually starts you out on the road to getting in to it) Now in 2006 say, this guy was wanting to buy a new vmax but was thinking its the same as all the ones before it so why bother. The added expense (12000) is really not smart when you own the same bike alread...he hears the rumors about an all new bike in 2009 and says to himself....yess thats what i want....the all new modern deal...
He is severely upset when he sees the hero bike come out this week and has to make the mental leap from a 6000-12000 hobby to a 17000+ hobby.
I think this is the guy you refer to as cost consciouses and reserved. nothin wrong with that. Except he isnt the guy buyin the 6000 swing arm conversions or the big bore kits or chain dribe conversions. Fair enough.
There are the monster vmax owners who have bought the bike for cheap too or like me bought new (for some reason i dont know why now when there are so many used ones out there haha...im like that some times) . This guy has PLANS.... he blows big money over several years.... has one hell of a custom bike and is thinking down the road that the new max would be cool...all modern and stuff but he also thinks in terms of always modifying the bike and so can get his head around the price...he figures the buy price needs to be lower so he can have money left for big mods... this is slightly odd because the new bike addresses a few areas that needed mods to address before....but the mind set is hard to break..."mods are what i do" "personalizing the bike is my thing"....venders of course love this guy...but the "easy in " makes it all possible.....
Now there is the new guy who we haven't met yet.... next year he will show up on this forum... he bought the new bike...never owned a max before...loved it from youth but was aware of its old technology and so stayed away.... the guys is about 40 and is really excited about owning the legendary bike of his youth, now with more power and an a renewed fearsome reputation... he come son this forum and says hi and wants to be part of the love fest.... he financed the bike and so has cash for mods...would like a louder exhaust like his harley friends and maybe a bigger tire if its not much more than 3 grand to do.... the bike had more power than he has ever seen so hes ok there for a while..... he needs a vender.
Iv said it before this happens in every "marque" following.... C4 and up vet guys are different than the76 and earlier guys... Old mustang and new mustang guys... etc etc etc..... even vrod vrs push rod harley guys.... its just senseless to be a vender of reputation and long standing and get all negative about newer model..... time moves on things change and you cant rest if you wanna be in business..... remember way back when you went to a bike meet and all the older harley owners whould bit about REAL harley owners versus these rich guys buying new HDs? remember all that? they thought a harley should be half what people pay today...and yet there they are...
People will drop huge dollars on HD, Victory and Ducati for the name on the tank alone. They are status symbols, much like BMW, and Mercedes are to cars. Yamaha/Star are not status symbol brands. The Honda Rune was worth every penny and more so (have you seen that thing?) but it was not successful because people gasped at dropping $25k for a Honda. People (*******) line up to spend $30k for the Screamin' Eagle Harleys, and I see a lot of the $20k Victory Hammer S. The new Max will offer twice what these other bikes have, but I don't see 'the people' spending the money for a non-conformist 'Star'. Is it worth it, yes. I like the Gen2 Max, but I couldn't imagine spending 18k on bike when I could have 2 other bikes that I could really love for the same price. Call me cheap and poor, whatever.
I know the original Max was niche bending and this one is too. I really don't see non-Vmax enthusiasts getting excited for this machine. The trad cruiser crowd won't really warm to it as it doesn't conform with the wanna-be Harley and the drag race crowd won't want it due to weight, shaft drive, and a possible limited aftermarket. Even if it is faster than the 'Busa and ZX-14, it won't turn anyone interested in these bikes away. The 'Busa and ZX-14 have huge aftermarkets and can be made to have 280+HP for less than this new Max. I also think its bizarre to make people buy the bike sight unseen and un-ridden. The lack of an official HP number/quarter mile time is suspect.
I don't believe this bike will ever be 'mass-produced', and I doubt we will see another 25 year run.
I know the original Max was niche bending and this one is too. I really don't see non-Vmax enthusiasts getting excited for this machine. The trad cruiser crowd won't really warm to it as it doesn't conform with the wanna-be Harley and the drag race crowd won't want it due to weight, shaft drive, and a possible limited aftermarket. Even if it is faster than the 'Busa and ZX-14, it won't turn anyone interested in these bikes away. The 'Busa and ZX-14 have huge aftermarkets and can be made to have 280+HP for less than this new Max. I also think its bizarre to make people buy the bike sight unseen and un-ridden. The lack of an official HP number/quarter mile time is suspect.
I don't believe this bike will ever be 'mass-produced', and I doubt we will see another 25 year run.
Way2Fast
Active Member
Yamaha had a lot to say about their new 2008 FX SHO personal watercraft. They advertised it as "the quickest accelerating personal watercraft on the planet " !! "unrivaled acceleration" !! "the time it takes to get from zero to 30 is second to none" Well, in actual impartial tests, the SHO had the SLOWEST acceleration of any competing brand of performance PWC. They also said it has "an ultra lightweight hull and deck, 45 lbs lighter than the nearest competitor" ........ The competition, namely Sea-doo's performance 3 seaters weigh far less !!
In the case of their PWC, Yammi has outright lied in their ads.....I wonder how the Max will really compare....of course no one will know until they have collected a load of NON REFUNDABLE $1,000 deposits !! Smart marketing at the expense of bad PR ???
Richard
Hercules
Well-Known Member
You cant compare a Harley Davidson to a Yamaha price wise, because Harley's rarely lose their value and resale value is always high you can get a loaded up chromed out Harley for $20+ That same Harley will sell for close to the new price years down the road[they are considered a great investment] that Vmax will lose value a hell of a lot quicker, and resale value will be thousands off what you paid for it especially when Suzuki puts something out this year or next that completely buries it.
Spend your money how you see fit but expect Suzuki to fight back right away[ and lesson the value of the New Max.[Suzuki puts a 1800 in the Busa or puts the supercharger back on the B-king its all over competition wise for the New max for years to come or after about 10 years lol]
Thats the facts jack!
Spend your money how you see fit but expect Suzuki to fight back right away[ and lesson the value of the New Max.[Suzuki puts a 1800 in the Busa or puts the supercharger back on the B-king its all over competition wise for the New max for years to come or after about 10 years lol]
Thats the facts jack!
I don't know if I would go as far to say as it being "all over" for the Gen 2 VMAX if those other guys have bikes that are faster, more powerful or whatever. The reason being is that none of those other bikes has the huge cult following all over the Globe as the Yamaha VMAX, nor have those other bikes been worshiped as much as the VMAX either for so, so long. Heck, folks were *still* buying new 2007 VMAX's right up until production ceased and I'd bet all of those buyers already knew that the VMAX was not the fastest, best handling or best braking bike out there- but they bought it anyway because of what the VMAX *IS* and it's rich performance heritage. Not everyone wants to set the world on fire with all-out, arm jerking performance, myself included....
I think folks will buy the VMAX because of it's heritage, style and other symbolic features that makes it the iconic performance bike that it is, with sledgehammer type power and unforgettable performance legendry that *NO OTHER* bike can lay claim to for so long. I'd guess the typical VMAX owner is the same way demographic-wise and the online studies Yamaha posted on their website verified that, as most are in the very late 20's to early 40's range.
Give it time and everyone will calm down and not hold the new bike in such contempt like they have done so far for many silly reasons IMO; price not-with-standing. Once the cost adjusts to what the market will bare, everyone will have their hands on one, crapping their pants when they roll thr throttle and you'll never hear anyone moan about silly, minor things like mirrors, gas tanks, head lights and colors...
Give it time to unfold and folks will eventually come around.
Besides, I kind of like the exclusivity of the Gen 1 and now the Gen 2 VMAX, as it's a real treat to even see one on the street other than mine, which hasn't happened to me yet this year in my area! This bike is truly a legend! Some of you guys can have those dime-a-dozen Tupperware bikes that are all over like flies, because they all look the same no matter how they are equipped under all that plastic... Even if one had a blown Big Block Chevy crammed in the frame rails with a zillion HP for less money than the VMAX, I still would not want to be a "sheep" to follow purchase of what everyone else has and the MAX would be mine....
After seeing this new bike, my brand loyalty is now set for good.
- john
I think folks will buy the VMAX because of it's heritage, style and other symbolic features that makes it the iconic performance bike that it is, with sledgehammer type power and unforgettable performance legendry that *NO OTHER* bike can lay claim to for so long. I'd guess the typical VMAX owner is the same way demographic-wise and the online studies Yamaha posted on their website verified that, as most are in the very late 20's to early 40's range.
Give it time and everyone will calm down and not hold the new bike in such contempt like they have done so far for many silly reasons IMO; price not-with-standing. Once the cost adjusts to what the market will bare, everyone will have their hands on one, crapping their pants when they roll thr throttle and you'll never hear anyone moan about silly, minor things like mirrors, gas tanks, head lights and colors...
Give it time to unfold and folks will eventually come around.
Besides, I kind of like the exclusivity of the Gen 1 and now the Gen 2 VMAX, as it's a real treat to even see one on the street other than mine, which hasn't happened to me yet this year in my area! This bike is truly a legend! Some of you guys can have those dime-a-dozen Tupperware bikes that are all over like flies, because they all look the same no matter how they are equipped under all that plastic... Even if one had a blown Big Block Chevy crammed in the frame rails with a zillion HP for less money than the VMAX, I still would not want to be a "sheep" to follow purchase of what everyone else has and the MAX would be mine....
After seeing this new bike, my brand loyalty is now set for good.
- john
i hear ya but im looking at Vstar prices where i live and harley price sheets and i dont get it..... is see all kinds of vstars in the 18 -21,000 range..... and i also see harleys in the same range and higher..... i dont know Herc mybe you right on a few points but to say that yamaha is and will always be a low price bike is a bit hard for me. Especially since we are talking about the vmax which appears to now be one of their exclusive top enders.....
The power war argument is interesting..... Yes suzuki or anyone can put a super charger on a bike and one up...but do you really think thats going to be done below 17 grand... here is what a marketing guy at suzuki would be thinking... "well ****, if a big power limited addition drag machine can get 17 well we can do that to and get 18 if ours is faster.." motorcycle companies arnt charities....there are interested in profit percentage believe me....
Hercules
Well-Known Member
As for the b-king the prototype had a supercharger on it,If they decided "lets slap it back on there" I dont know what they would ask! it might get scary!
