Starter's removed... what now?

[Nick.]

I removed my starter and tried to test it to see if it was good. I hooked the... negative? ( red) to the power cable connector thing on the starter and grounded out the positive? (black) to the frame, sanded a clean spot, only a little one. The starter never moved on any amperage. So... it's bad?

 

[eatatjoz]

Positive (+) is almost always considered red. The wires don't really care where they're hooked, but just to keep it simple stay with Red (+) positive.

Put the red clamp on your batteries (+) positive post and on the terminal of the starter.
Next, connect the black (-) negative to the negative side of the battery and touch it to the body of the starter.
If all goes well, it will spin with enough torque to release it'self from the black wire that's touching the body and quit spinning.

If you're trying to use a battery charger for testing, you won't get any results. You'll need a pair of jumper cables and a battery.

 

[maleko89]

Are you talking about the red going to the starter relay under the seat? Run that read wire to starter and then ground the body of the starter to the engine.

 

[Nick.]

ah ok I'll test that out, and for the testing I used a 12volt charger/ jumper.

OK i just tried the test on 2 different batteries, my trolling motor battery and a spare motorcycle one I have from my magna. Neither one made the starter spin or anything. My assumption, new starter time. I'm not sure if I'm right or not but aren't the starters the same size from 85 to... the late 90's or something?

 

[naughtyG]

I believe the starters are the same shape from '85 to '07. I know there was an internal upgrade (4 brush vs 2 brush) so you wanna grab a later one, but they should all fit.

Sean will correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[Nick.]

ok this was weird. I did the test one more time today just for good measure and it spun. It didn't make any sense to me. How would it not work one day and work another? My dad thinks one of the brushes is bad, could that just be it?

 

[eatatjoz]

I'd lean toward dirty.
Yamaha seals these things up pretty good and the brush dust has nowhere to escape to. Once you get enough dust built up on the contacts inside the starter, she'll turn over slow and then eventually lose contact.

 

[Nick.]

alright, i'll take it apart and clean it out before I order a new one

 

[jfeagins]

alright, i'll take it apart and clean it out before I order a new one

IF you have one of the earlier model starters with 2 brushes, you will find a thread on here, somewhere, with pics showing how to make sure you are getting a good ground from the brush plate across to the starter case and on out to the bike so that it will perform well - even when restarting the bike while hot.

Suckers will sometimes crank very slowly while hot, even though the insides look nice and clean. I think it has to do with oxidization between the metal parts. :ummm:

 

[Nick.]

OK i finally had a chance to get the starter apart. It was dang dusty and nasty in there. I blew it out and it looks good to me. I'll snap some pics tonight when I get home. Anyway, I'm trying to get the dang thing back together. The starter thing, the thing in the middle that spins, won't go back in all the way. The two things at the bottom are stopping it, they look like two teeth.

Can someone help me out here? I really hope my starter was just dirty and didn't work right...

 

[jfeagins]

OK i finally had a chance to get the starter apart. It was dang dusty and nasty in there. I blew it out and it looks good to me. I'll snap some pics tonight when I get home. Anyway, I'm trying to get the dang thing back together. The starter thing, the thing in the middle that spins, won't go back in all the way. The two things at the bottom are stopping it, they look like two teeth.

Can someone help me out here? I really hope my starter was just dirty and didn't work right...

DON'T FORCE IT TO GO IN!

Those two things are your brushes. You need to assemble that end first and carefully spread those brushes back into their respective spring loaded areas as you slide that armature in place. Takes a bit of patience and both hands, but isn't all that hard once you've done it once.


BEFORE you do that, take a much closer look at the flat, round plate where those brushes mount. That plate should have the wires going into your starter and it will now move around much without bending the wires alot etc.


That plate has a couple, or three, (I cant recall) small tabs sticking out. I wish I could find detailed pics on this forum (they exist). Those 'locating tabs, cause the plate to be sandwiched between the upper and lower halves of the starter in just the right position. I think it's on the cap half of the starter, you will see small, flat places where each of those tabs is meant to come into contact with when properly sandwiched in there. Those contact areas need to be really, really clean and free of grease or oxidization.

Also, those positioning tabs can be bent EVER SO SLIGHTLY so as to be in much better, firmer contact with the starter casing when you re-install the bolts and re-tighten the halves together. You will litterally be making better ground contact for the brush plate when you do this.

There are threads, somewhere on the net, showing how this older version, two brush starter can be modded to solder a ground wire directly to this brush plate and then wire it to a firm frame ground outside the battery. But in a nut shell, that poor ground from brush plate to starter case is the main reason (IMHO) why the four brush starter upgrade came in later Vmaxes.

And Also, while your in there, be double sure to inspect the bearings at each end of the starter and apply a small amount of additional grease as necessary. Don't need to get carried away. All the shims need to go back as it was before.

I'll go search for pics.

Starters are expensive, at least in my book.


Anyone else chime in too.

EDIT:

I think I found the website with pics that helped me understand. But I CANNOT verify it is the right site, due to the filters here at work now won't allow me to revisit the site. Check it out and see if this is right.

http://members.chello.nl/c.cornwall/Startmotor/startmotor.htm

 

[Nick.]

i didn't know the other half came off! lol It looked solid to me, I guess 25 years of dirtyness will make it look so. If those metal plates need to be replaced at all then I'm gonna have to get a new one because the screws holding them in are pretty much a part of the housing now

 

[Nick.]

well i worked on getting that cap off but not by much. There's that wire attaching to the brushes. How do I disconnect the wire without breaking it?

 

[eatatjoz]

I've never taken one down that far. I usually crack it open to the point that the brushes hang out, shoot everything with brake cleaner, wipe the stuff down, spray it again, and re assemble.
Just getting the dust out fixes a lot of problems by itself.

 

[yukonerdave]

The wire is attached to a thin metal plate, and that plate is also attached to the interior of the main body of the starter. Nothing is actually attached to the end cap, so you should be able to pull it off. It may be that the thin plate is stuck inside the cap one way or another - try prying it off gently.

 

[yukonerdave]

Did you ever get this done, Nick? I'm just finishing a total starter motor rebuild and I will post lots of pics and instructions soon.