UFO BS 4n1 Pipe under investigation

[vmaxguru]

so just to clear this up before it gets misread...

the second picture is the bike as it is right now... WITH the as advertised collector?

and the first picture was from when gary owned it.. and it was the switched out collector?

correct?

You are correct. I changed the top description. Thanks.

I have more pictures:

When Gary owned it:​

​

UFO Owned:
​

BattleStar Bike:​

If you shop his web site, this picture will come up on the BattleStar EXHAUST SALES PAGE! :
​

Another one not on sales page:
​

"Production" Units from UFO Web Site​

BattleStar:
​

ThunderMax:
​

Interesting thing is, it looks like the new collector on Gary's old bike shows up in some other promo pictures. The ThunderMax one on E-Bay is what got me started looking to see if he changed the BS pipe.​

Tim​

 

[Dreamster66]

Not true....while using other folks as stepping stones is undoubtedly the easiest, and most often used method of getting to the top, it is not the only way.

There are a couple other, less used, paths. unk:

ya, I tried sleeping my way to the top but that didn't work out for me....hahahaha

 

[vmaxguru]

I agree, the only reason China is making profits is because they are paying the workers $1 per day and selling the products far cheaper then products made anywhere else. Price will drive sales (supply/demand) even if the parts are junk. Take harbor freight for instance. Most of what they sell is junk. BUT, it's so cheap you can just pitch the crap when it breaks and get another item.

UFO's products on the other hand aren't that much cheaper (if at all) than stuff found elsewhere. It doesn't perform that much better (like his Vgas vs PCW flats or even my carbs and jet kit). It isn't that much prettier. Not all of his products are junk (he doesn't make everything he sells - just like most vendors, myself include, don't).

BUT, he has very poor customer service after the sale. I'm sure it's great before and during the sale. BUT, when there is a problem he hides better then jews from a Nazi patrol (no offense to the jews). This thread and discussion will hurt his sales more then it will help it I am sure.

Tim's comments so far have simply been matter of fact and in my opinion do nothing to detract from him. He's pointed out his claims, backed them up pictures, and he may even be able to post up some numbers to prove his point. I personally don't even need the numbers. Just off of the support gives Jon after the sale is enough for me to not need anything he has.

He likes to attack me whenever possible, call names and infer he's a super vmax man. Go ahead and let him. I personally think his HP claims are bogus, his claim to being the most powerful this and that are bogus.

Jon,
If you or one of your lackeys is reading this. Here's the challenge:
Let's send in some of your parts for testing, Gen 1 and Gen 2, to someone that is impartial to either of us. Find a dyno facility and a local bike. Install our products back to back on the same machine and see just what they do.

There is an excellent facility in Topeka Ks that we use each year for a dyno event and gathering. We can bring the pipes, carbs, ect... and each have our turn with a bike. I can either find a bike or we can ask the general membership.

I'd even consider flying in somewhere to wrench and install parts.

We had started trying to do some testing with another member but there were some personal issues he had and couldn't finish up. So, all the testing isn't worth anything since it won't be testing on the same bike.

Perhaps this summer I can proceed again on my own and try again. I am sure you won't believe the info we get without you being there but I think my reputation will be enough for most guys here. The reason I would like you present is so that you'll be obligated to remove the verbiage from your ads about having the most powerful this and that. That way if you don't maybe we can move forward with the false advertising claims.

Again, not being hateful. Just simply a fair and independent comparison of the products.

Sean

Sean,


I'll join in and bet $10k verses Gary's Drag Bike I can outpull him on a internally stock Gen II. Air, Exhaust and Electronics changes only. See if you can beat a Nash "2nup".

OK Jon, Here is your chance to show you have "BALLS".



Tim Nash

 

[mattness]

now thats a bet i bet he'd take.

but sadly youd probably win.

youve never given us the chance to doubt you

 

[vmaxguru]

now thats a bet i bet he'd take.

but sadly youd probably win.

youve never given us the chance to doubt you

As long as I don't have to worry about him using my own stuff against me, like using my ECU and saying "some car guy" reflashed HIS program into it, I am all for it. Thank goodness for checksums!

Tim

 

[one2dmax]

You beat him up with your gen 2 stuff and i'll bring my gen 1 stuff.

Sean

 

[headknocker]

well if he races for a living he should be glad to do the race money is money RITE!!

 

[mattness]

You beat him up with your gen 2 stuff and i'll bring my gen 1 stuff.

Sean

omg ill do ANYTHING to be there if this actually goes down.

after all this is what jon does for a living right?

 

[chainednitromaxx]

What the big deal here, so what if he changed the pipe. I would hope he would try to improve the original design or am i missing something here.Most performance shops do or the end up getting left behind.

Love the fact that it was noticed and shown so we can learn more and try to squeeze more power out.Is Jon saying the pipe he selling the same as his drag bike? If so he should have mentioned the difference but does not take a brain child to see the difference. I am sure he would mod the pipes if someone wanted for a fee. Anyway i am neutral on this and never bought parts from neither ones in this scrap. wowow can tell its winter and tensions building from less ride time !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[vmaxguru]

well if he races for a living he should be glad to do the race money is money RITE!!

I need to be clear. This is a Dyno challenge. I'm 6' 5" and 275 pounds. I have a toe bigger than Jon. I think it's either the "little piggy that stayed home" or the one that went "wee wee wee all the way home". Anyway, there is no way I could overcome the weight difference in a drag race and I am not going to call up Jay Gleason. No sir. I want this competition to be between me and him for the Gen II. If know Jon, he will try to take the high road. "Already made his mark", "why bother with the jealous guys?" response. But,,, then again,,, it's $10K and another chance to "enlighten" me.

By the way. Anyone actually ever see his timeslip? I never did.

Tim Nash

 

[KJShover]

By the way. Anyone actually ever see his timeslip? I never did.

I was wondering who did the actual certification. I'm a skeptic, until I see paperwork from a neutral party saying the bike ran what it did, in the prameters set (ie. no spray, all stock internals etc..) I don't buy it.

As with Jay's passes, those were done very publicly and open. I tend to believe those passes.

I'm with you on the size thing Tim, I'm pushing the 6'5 range and although I'm not the 430+lbs I ballooned to when I hurt my back, I'm still hovering in the 330 range.

 

[dannymax]

I was wondering who did the actual certification. I'm a skeptic, until I see paperwork from a neutral party saying the bike ran what it did, in the prameters set (ie. no spray, all stock internals etc..) I don't buy it.

As with Jay's passes, those were done very publicly and open. I tend to believe those passes.

I'm with you on the size thing Tim, I'm pushing the 6'5 range and although I'm not the 430+lbs I ballooned to when I hurt my back, I'm still hovering in the 330 range.

Same thing I was alluding to in the "VMOA Important Announcement" thread, in response to Nobody's post, but never got an answer......


Bob, I don't see where one has anything to do with the other, but setting that aside....why weren't the results of the run negated, or the bike DQ'd as an illegal set-up? Why....if it's such a major violation....is the run allowed to stand?

A lot of folks seem very upset about this....why hasn't the whole deal been run through the exposure cycle and hung out to dry on the line of public opinion?
I must be missing something? :ummm:

 

[vmaxguru]

Same thing I was alluding to in the "VMOA Important Announcement" thread, in response to Nobody's post, but never got an answer......


Bob, I don't see where one has anything to do with the other, but setting that aside....why weren't the results of the run negated, or the bike DQ'd as an illegal set-up? Why....if it's such a major violation....is the run allowed to stand?

A lot of folks seem very upset about this....why hasn't the whole deal been run through the exposure cycle and hung out to dry on the line of public opinion?
I must be missing something? :ummm:

He could not be DQ'ed as Jon had either rented or attended an event where the track was rented or he was at a Test and Tune type of event. No "Race" per se to be entered into. No "class" type of race wherein he would have to meet any standards. Therefore, anything would do. I believe everyone had the same general idea that the 8 second run would follow the same framework established by the Legacy V-Max in the CW "Taking it to the Nines" article. Jon didn't re-invent the wheel, he followed suit. The Legacy V-Max went on a diet, had new wheels, drag slick, wheelie bar, carb work by Mark Dobeck (inventor of the DynoJet Dyno) and all too famous Kerker Exhaust. Because of that run, the Kerker 4 into 1 went on to be bolted to thousands of bikes. Is the Kerker one the same one that was sold? I don't know. I do know anyone expecting to bolt on the production BattleStar and make any power (much less the power to run 8 seconds) will be seriously disgusted with what they will receive.

Nitrous could be a disqualification for public opinion, but not DQ his time. The only thing to DQ his time would be an obvious error in the timekeeping equipment. There was ton's of people present for the Legacy V-Max 9 second run. There was only Jon and his employee present that would be concerned about his run. The track employees would be indifferent. Not revealing the time slip warrants skepticism about his setup, as it did with me when he would not produce it for me to see. The time slip is a tell-tale of what went on with the bike during the run. He e-mailed me the 9.20-ish time slips. To date, I have yet to see the 8 second slip and I wonder why.


Tim Nash

 

[one2dmax]

I personally think with his featherweight *** on the bike the eight second run was entirely possible (with Nitrous). Even so, an 8 second run is very impressive but I don't want smoke blown up my *** that it was naturally aspirated to do it. I would not think any less of him if he'd admit what was done. I will think less of him if it's proven that he lied about how it was done.

There was an article written about him last year I think. I thought it was kind of interesting that though it did not call him a liar it did say he forced them to rewrite the rules a couple of times. Kind of like the race event I attended. I went there expecting to have street bikes setup with our various products to do the race. Instead I find him on a stripped down bike prepped for track use that would absolutely suck to ride on the street. I knew better then to think he'd "fight fair" lol.

Still, it would be nice if there was more info like the time slip to show. But, a time slip can be fabricated or used from someone else so that doesn't mean all that much to me either.

 

[KJShover]

I'm sure it would be just a coincidence like how this clutch, looks and behaves like EFM's auto clutch. :biglaugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAy3ufxHrh8




EFM's AutoClutch

I intend on buying one of these clutches from EFM in January, they seem like a great unit and from what I've heard they are the mutts nuts for a smooth launch and lighter clutch pull, and the owner's a real pleasure to work with. He's answered all my emails and questions within a day, seems like a good guy.

I thought about this post and emailed the makers of this clutch. As I could be wrong, and just wanted to make sure and not jumping to conclusions.

Here is the reply I recieved.

KJ:


I know Jon, the product he shows is mine that we made for him. We are not far from each other here.




We modify your existing clutch on the bike, or we can send you what you need to do it yourself, but requires some drilling and tapping of the basket.


695.00 we install
650.00 you install.
plus shipping.
Thank you for the interest in EFM Auto Clutch.

So its safe to assume that the following is not exactly correct.

“UFO Performance Products Centrifugal Clutch. A new revolutionary design developed as part of our drag racing research and development.”


It would have been more truthful to mention something like "a joint venture between", or something of that nature. EFM has been making these things for over 10 years, that amount of experience would be a great marketing tool to use. To me it looks like another attempt to take full credit for someone else's work.

 

[chainednitromaxx]

Will someone answer the my ? on page 13 ?:bang head:

 

[maxcruiser]

I intend on buying one of these clutches from EFM in January, they seem like a great unit and from what I've heard they are the mutts nuts for a smooth launch and lighter clutch pull, and the owner's a real pleasure to work with. He's answered all my emails and questions within a day, seems like a good guy.

I thought about this post and emailed the makers of this clutch. As I could be wrong, and just wanted to make sure and not jumping to conclusions.

Here is the reply I recieved.









So its safe to assume that the following is not exactly correct.

?UFO Performance Products Centrifugal Clutch. A new revolutionary design developed as part of our drag racing research and development.?


It would have been more truthful to mention something like "a joint venture between", or something of that nature. EFM has been making these things for over 10 years, that amount of experience would be a great marketing tool to use. To me it looks like another attempt to take full credit for someone else's work.

Hey KJ, I bought an EFM auto clutch this past summer for my wife's bike. Garry is a great guy to deal with. At one point, I talked on the phone with him for over an hour about the clutch and than about his 3 wheel, vmax powered vehicule. He definitely knows his stuff.

The clutch is a top quality item - very well engineered and fabricated. Clutch pull has zero resistance (but the Radian is cable style clutch) and engages very smoothly. Very easy to do burn outs too.

Mike

 

[KJShover]

Hey KJ, I bought an EFM auto clutch this past summer for my wife's bike. Garry is a great guy to deal with. At one point, I talked on the phone with him for over an hour about the clutch and than about his 3 wheel, vmax powered vehicule. He definitely knows his stuff.

The clutch is a top quality item - very well engineered and fabricated. Clutch pull has zero resistance (but the Radian is cable style clutch) and engages very smoothly. Very easy to do burn outs too.

Mike

Sweet. Thanks for the opinion Mike, I'm now sold. The RA is slowly getting worse and my hands and legs aren't what they used to be. I'm thinking this little puppy should keep the KJ/Vmax relationship going a little longer. unk:

 

[one2dmax]

What the big deal here, so what if he changed the pipe. I would hope he would try to improve the original design or am i missing something here.Most performance shops do or the end up getting left behind.

Love the fact that it was noticed and shown so we can learn more and try to squeeze more power out.Is Jon saying the pipe he selling the same as his drag bike? If so he should have mentioned the difference but does not take a brain child to see the difference. I am sure he would mod the pipes if someone wanted for a fee. Anyway i am neutral on this and never bought parts from neither ones in this scrap. wowow can tell its winter and tensions building from less ride time !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think if you read between the lines back when this started you'd see the concern was if the design was what actually made power (on the racebike) vs what was being issued. I think the current tube section isn't very good for power (not the way the pipes merge doesn't lend itself to successfully merge - it looks like the will do more colliding then merging).

Improving or changing the design is well withing the manufacturers right to do but if the design is worse and probably not putting out the power that is advertised then that could be the bait and switch that is referenced.

Sean

 

[one2dmax]

I wonder how well it works in a super high HP application and drag race condition?? Can the rpm's be brought up to launch or do you have to simply wack it when the light turns green. I ask because trying that with a flat slide bike might not work as well.

Sean