What else can I do for the 45mph wobble?

[HDKILA]

thanks chris. i'll post up some results later tonight..

hey abe, any luck on your end?

I am actually watching an item on ebay right now. I am going to try the damper route. I don't care if it's a band aid as long it stops the bleeding!:biglaugh:

 

[gamorg02]

If it's a harmonics thing, 45 mph could be the point where the resonance is building the most, thus a wobble.

Of course, that's just an "off the cuff" idea and very possibly, completely wrong.

it was kind of my thoughts... with the right tire, no issues, but omething thats already acting up causes it to be shown.. i dunno.. we'll have to wait and see i guess.

I am actually watching an item on ebay right now. I am going to try the damper route. I don't care if it's a band aid as long it stops the bleeding!:biglaugh:

ur probably watching the same one i am buddy. the one i'll be paying more attention to next monday/tuesday? that one? hahah

those $200 kits don't look too bad either eh?

 

[HDKILA]

it was kind of my thoughts... with the right tire, no issues, but omething thats already acting up causes it to be shown.. i dunno.. we'll have to wait and see i guess.



ur probably watching the same one i am buddy. the one i'll be paying more attention to next monday/tuesday? that one? hahah

those $200 kits don't look too bad either eh?

What item number you watching?

BTW my wobble is only at 45...nowhere else.

 

[gamorg02]

250444071981

same here.. maybe 47/48 but in that range...

 

[HDKILA]

250444071981

same here.. maybe 47/48 but in that range...

Same item. I am interested in this one because it has a mounting bracket. I wonder where it mounts to?

Abe

 

[gamorg02]

Same item. I am interested in this one because it has a mounting bracket. I wonder where it mounts to?

Abe

lets talk offline so we don't out bid each other eh? no reason for us two to drive the price up. it mounts under the instrument cluster

http://www.cycleoneoff.com/100_0989.JPG

 

[4gasem]

I think you'll be upset when you mount it and it still does it Abe... It doesn't solve the problem you have... It'll just slow down the speed in which it happens.

Chris

 

[HDKILA]

I think you'll be upset when you mount it and it still does it Abe... It doesn't solve the problem you have... It'll just slow down the speed in which it happens.

Chris

We talking about bikes or women here? LOL!:eusa_dance:

Have others tried the damper yet Chris?

Abe

 

[HDKILA]

lets talk offline so we don't out bid each other eh? no reason for us two to drive the price up. it mounts under the instrument cluster

http://www.cycleoneoff.com/100_0989.JPG

If you want to be tester to see if it works...otherwise I don't mind trying it as well. Let me know...

Abe

 

[gamorg02]

update:
did furbur fix and tightened nuts back down. seemed to help a bit
lowered forks 5/8" in the tree's. helped a bit more. no more real wobble in 4 or 5th gear but prevalent in 2/3rd most times only if i let go from 55 or above it comes in about 48 mph. won't happen if i let go at 50 or so..

so i'm thinking the only thing that relaly changes then is engine speed. maybe some solid motor mounts would help? not sure whats involved in changing those out tho, looks like i may have to drop the swingarm, can anyone confirm?

abe, feel free to pick it up. i'm not sold on the idea yet.. i am doing some research here tho:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/V-Ma...8775024QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

that hyperpro i think will end up selling for a bit more than even this one here.... the COO kits are about $800 new i think...

i'm not convinced its not my front tire still so i may wait until i try sallymax's front tire, however, i would consider splitting one of those dampers between a few of us and trying it out and if it doesn't work we each only loose a %, otherwise can can buy our own (of the cheaper $200 ebay targa one)

 

[HDKILA]

update:
did furbur fix and tightened nuts back down. seemed to help a bit
lowered forks 5/8" in the tree's. helped a bit more. no more real wobble in 4 or 5th gear but prevalent in 2/3rd most times only if i let go from 55 or above it comes in about 48 mph. won't happen if i let go at 50 or so..

so i'm thinking the only thing that relaly changes then is engine speed. maybe some solid motor mounts would help? not sure whats involved in changing those out tho, looks like i may have to drop the swingarm, can anyone confirm?

abe, feel free to pick it up. i'm not sold on the idea yet.. i am doing some research here tho:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/V-Ma...8775024QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

that hyperpro i think will end up selling for a bit more than even this one here.... the COO kits are about $800 new i think...

i'm not convinced its not my front tire still so i may wait until i try sallymax's front tire, however, i would consider splitting one of those dampers between a few of us and trying it out and if it doesn't work we each only loose a %, otherwise can can buy our own (of the cheaper $200 ebay targa one)

I have solid motor mounts so maybe I will try the furbur fix. I would consider dropping the forks down BUT I have the hindle exhaust/header and it is very low to the ground already!

What do you guys think? Thanks for the info Gamorg...I got your pm as well.

Abe

 

[gamorg02]

yea i follow on dropping the forks. i wouldn't say it helped THAT much anyways, not worth risking your exhaust. no worries on the info, i'll let u know wha ti find out about the targa/shindy one. .. some guys on a 929 forum seem to think they're a decent budget friendly damper. does it work on a vmax? no one seems to have one. i found one guy on ebay that bought it and messaged him.

i'd still be up for splitting one up price wise to see if it helps. maybe get 4 guys each @ 50 and if it works great we all get our own, if it doesn't we split the cost each and learn something...

getting info from seller on how it mounts too. also asked for any reviews they had.

 

[gleno]

For the benefit of other forum members.

I PM'ed HDKILA on this issue and I believe the following information will cure the problem.

Why do I think that? Because the only time I have ever had a steering head wobble was AFTER a new set of bearings were installed.

This is a symptom of a bearing shell that is not seated properly and bikes can come off the assembly line in this condition.

Under normal riding conditions it can develop even if the bearings were correctly fitted.

Here's the fix, which I included in my post at http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread....ighlight=front

'Walking' Bearings

This bit information comes from Mike Nixon at http://www.motorcycleproject.com and I felt it needed to be included here.

Sooner or later, all the larger late model Hondas and Yamahas develop a problem with the steering bearings that results in a head shake when decelerating from 40 mph and less. For want of a better term, we'll call it a "deceleration wobble."

There is a rule in motorcycle suspension technology which says that problems in handling that occur under 40 mph are due to defects in front of the steering head, while those occuring at higher speeds are found in causes aft of the steering. It's a tried and true rule of thumb, and a decel wobble obeys the pattern. Many things can cause weaves and wobbles, whether on acceleration or deceleration -- tire wear is especially critical. But decel wobbles have their own special causes, and if the front tire isn't excessively worn or the wheel badly out of balance, the cause is almost always the steering bearings. But we're not talking looseness. We're talking about something that is not addressed in any service manuals, factory or aftermarket. Whether because the frame is made of softer material or what, the steering bearing races "walk" in the frame. That is, they shift in their recesses and become out of square with the steering stem, and out of parallel with each other.

Modern motorcycle steering bearings tend to "worry" -- shift back and forth -- in their frames, especially on the heavier bikes. The resulting non-parallelness sets up torque forces in the steering which manifest themselves as attempts by the fork to correct itself, with the result: shimmy, shimmy. Again, the problem isn't looseness. Mere tightening fails to correct the problem.
The following procedure is one circulated by American Honda's District Service Reps. It is based on the above premise, as well as a procedure found in Honda Service Letter #126. Three tools are needed: a torque wrench, the special factory steering bearing nut socket (Honda's is part # 07916-3710100), and a good quality tubular 0-10 lb. spring scale. A floor jack or something similar to jack the front of the motorcycle off the floor will be handy, too.


Follow your manual's instructions for removing the top triple clamp (Honda calls this a "bridge"), so that the pair of special castlelated nuts becomes accessible. The upper one is just a locknut. Remove it and set it aside, along with the special washer. Jack the front end up off the floor, and feel the bearings as you turn the bars each side from center. If the bearings are notchy or the front end has a self-centering action, the bearings need to be replaced, no second-guessing here. After replacing them if necessary, continue. Get the front end off the floor. Turn the fork to full right lock, and with the torque wrench and special socket, tighten the bearings to 40-50 ft-lbs. The fork will be very stiff. Don't panic. It's only temporary. Now turn the fork lock-to-lock, repeatedly, at least twenty times. You will probably notice something interesting: that ridiculously high tension will loosen up; the bearings will get looser, indicating that they have squared up and settled into the frame. In some cases, you won't be able to tell, but even if you don't notice the bearings loosening up, proceed. Turn the fork to full left lock now and loosen the nut until it's just finger tight, then turn the fork to the right lock again and tighten it to 7-10 ft/lbs.


Attach your spring scale onto one fork tube, using a piece of shoestring or something similarly soft so as not to scratch the tube. With the fork assembly pointed straight ahead and the tire off the floor, slowly pull the spring scale straight ahead until the tip of the fender arcs about one inch. Note the poundage. You're looking for a 5-7 lb. pull. Five for motorcycles under 600 lbs., more for heavier machines and those with fairings. Tighten the tensioning nut as needed, a little at a time, and check with the spring scale.


After adjusting, drop the special washer back into place, and screw on the locknut, but don't tighten it. Though you probably found the locknut jammed against the tensioning nut, that's not the correct way to install it. It should be close to the tensioning nut, but not jammed against it. Leave a little space -- about 0.020". Then bend the locktabs into the locknut to keep the two interlocked. The locknut's job is to isolate the torque of the bridge nut from the steering bearings. Reassemble the rest of the fork per the manual. If a test ride reveals that there is still a decel wobble, or the bike sways side to side like a rowboat (the bearings are too tight), readjust to higher or lower spec as needed.

Good luck with it. __________________

 

[hubeerjw]

Great write-up, I was the one that put in Abe's bearings, so I may be the one at fault here. I rode it a fair amount after having done the swap and the wobble (I thought) was gone. I rode it before and noticed it, but it looks like the races may have "walked" a little since....

Abe is this something that just started coming back recently, or have you noticed it since you got it back?

 

[gleno]

Great write-up, I was the one that put in Abe's bearings, so I may be the one at fault here. I rode it a fair amount after having done the swap and the wobble (I thought) was gone. I rode it before and noticed it, but it looks like the races may have "walked" a little since....

Abe is this something that just started coming back recently, or have you noticed it since you got it back?

Hey, it's no-ones fault.

This is just a phenomena that happens.

Bearings can walk away from or towards the bearing seat in the steering stem just because the original manufacturing tolerances of the seats or bearings were a little out.

What matters is that there is a fix (form two different manufacturers dealer service bulletins) and now a few more forum members know about it.

Good luck with it.

It's all good.unk:

 

[gamorg02]

my bike has right under 6k miles on it... i guesss they may have walked from initial install...

the procedure looks pretty straightforward except for one part.. when ur talking about the spring scale.

how are you supposed to keep the forks straight if you are pulling on just one fork? that would cause that one to start pushing forward? wouldn't u want to maybe tie a shoe string around both forks and then pull?

Also, what do u mean when u see the fender arc a bit? does that mean when the tip of the fender basically moves an inch forward/down? seems like a lot of play...

i'm gonna have to figure out a way to get the torque on that first nut. either make a tool or something.... don't really have accesss to the tools to make the socket...

hey danny how hard was it to make a square hole in a spanner wrench?

 

[4gasem]

I have solid motor mounts so maybe I will try the furbur fix. I would consider dropping the forks down BUT I have the hindle exhaust/header and it is very low to the ground already!

What do you guys think? Thanks for the info Gamorg...I got your pm as well.

Abe

My buddies Vmax is lowered 2 in front and 1.5 in back with the exact same Hindle header. He DOES have Progressive springs in front though which I highly recommend you install if you lower. They won't compress as much as the stock springs which may save your a$$. He does have to be careful.

Chris

 

[maleko89]

Here's another good write-up which reinforces the use of a spring scale.

http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/vmaxshakes.htm

 

[gamorg02]

ahhh i've read that too but i think i was thinking the adifferen't arc.

its not that the fender moves forward, but the arc that is actually the steering arch, right? inorder to get movement we should be around 5 - 7 lbs? its kind of like it should take 5 - 7 lbs to get the forks to move while in the air, eh?

 

[dannymax]

my bike has right under 6k miles on it... i guesss they may have walked from initial install...

the procedure looks pretty straightforward except for one part.. when ur talking about the spring scale.

how are you supposed to keep the forks straight if you are pulling on just one fork? that would cause that one to start pushing forward? wouldn't u want to maybe tie a shoe string around both forks and then pull?

Also, what do u mean when u see the fender arc a bit? does that mean when the tip of the fender basically moves an inch forward/down? seems like a lot of play...

i'm gonna have to figure out a way to get the torque on that first nut. either make a tool or something.... don't really have accesss to the tools to make the socket...

hey danny how hard was it to make a square hole in a spanner wrench?[/QUOTE]

Very simple Garrett.....I'll send you mine! How hard was that!! :biglaugh: