Air/Fuel meter and gauge

[Nuclear Banana]

I know some of you asked about putting an Air/fuel monitor and gauge on the bike. It shouldnt be too hard. The hardest part will be welding the O2 sensor bung into the exhaust pipe.

I believe it will work better on a 4-2-1 header because you will get a reading from all 4 cylinders. On a dual exhause system, you will have to pick a side for the O2 sensor. You will get a reading off 2 of the cylinders, but should still be pretty accurate.

Kit runs about $280 from Jegs. Holley makes a kit and Innovate Motorsports makes one.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Innovate-Motorsports/Innovate-DB-Series-Air-Fuel-Gauge-Kits/774546/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/p/Innovate-Moto...-G-Series-Air-Fuel-Gauge-Kits/857489/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/p/Holley/Holley-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Monitors/745181/10002/-1


Other brands
http://www.jegs.com/c/Gauges-Tachs_Air-Fuel-Ratio-EGT-Monitoring-Systems/10625/10002/-1

 

[gamorg02]

that'd be neat huh? but it would just be another thing for me to overanalyze!

so it looks like u just cut a hole in your header somewhere an plug this in eh? surprised some people haven't done it on here

 

[KJShover]

I don't know if he is still using it, but Rusty was using this nice piece wizardry.

http://www.widebandcommander.com/

 

[Thevmaxrider]

I will have to check tonight and see what brand the one I have is. If my memory serves me right it is made by Autometer, but I may be mistaken. One thing I am looking at is only using it to tune and then removing it from the bike. I almost have too many gauges to look at now and adding it would just add a distraction. When you buy the bung I believe they come with a plug too so you can install the sensor when tuning and remove it once you are done. As conditions don't change that drastically all at once you only need to put the gauge on when you make a change or if you are heading into a lower altitude area etc. Will update later.

 

[[email protected]]

I've actually been considering doing this. If you think about what you would pay to dyno your bike and have it tuned ONCE, you could buy a cheaper guage set up and do it whenever you want. I don't have the extra dough to do it right now but I'm definitely interested. I'm curious what my HP #'s are but in all honesty I really don't care. The main reason I've been considering a dyno is to make sure all is in perfect tune. Knowing my HP would just be a bonus (or not, LOL). PLUS it will show you real world conditions, when the bike is in action in the open air, moving. Instead of dyno room conditions.

I haven't done much research but it seems like something with data logging capability pushes the price up quickly. A few companies out there have a nice kit that has just a guage, wire harness, bung+plug, and sensor for around $220 or something like that. This is the route I was considering. There is a local shop I had do some tig welding on my dirtbike swingarm and on the engine case and they only charged like $10. I'm sure if I drill the hole for the bung they wouldn't charge much to weld it on for me.

 

[dannymax]

OEM pipes have sensor bungs already welded on so guys with slip-ons can use these with no mods.

Why not drill a hole in the pipe, tap a fine thread and use a small bolt to plug it off?

Do these work like the Gunnison units where the sensors have to be recalibrated to fresh air in between cylinders or can you switch from one to another cylinder?

danny

 

[gamorg02]

OEM pipes have sensor bungs already welded on so guys with slip-ons can use these with no mods.

where are the oem bungs?

 

[RagingMain]

The OEM dont have large "bungs" like one would think for an O2 sensor. They are smaller and are used at the factory for EGT for proper tuning.

I took my Kerker 4-1 off a while back and had 4 O2 bungs welded into it, one on each header. I have borrowed an A/F meter and used it to individually tune each cylinder. You would be suprised at just how big a quarter turn makes on the pilot screw.

My next step is to strap it somewhere or put it in a back pack and do some data logging with it in all kinds of traffic/situations to see how the bike is performing at partial throttle as well as wide open throttle like on a dyno. Since I dont spend most of my time at WOT, I want to see what the bike is doing when I am just "putting around" town.
Cheers

 

[[email protected]]

OEM pipes have sensor bungs already welded on so guys with slip-ons can use these with no mods.

Why not drill a hole in the pipe, tap a fine thread and use a small bolt to plug it off?

Do these work like the Gunnison units where the sensors have to be recalibrated to fresh air in between cylinders or can you switch from one to another cylinder?

danny

Like I said I have done limited research so far so I don't know shit for sure. I'm thinking the O2 sensors need a 18mm x 1.5 thread pattern. I know the oem pipes have a place to hook up the EGA meters but that is a bit different than the O2 sensor with A/F meter and those existing hookups are much smaller I believe.

The cost of a threaded bung and plug ranges from $8-20. Being you need a 18mm hole tapped with 1.5 thread pitch you're not going to have enuf meat in a thinwall SS aftermaket pipe to get good threads that size in there. Plus with the curvature of the pipe you probably will have trouble getting it sealed up against the pipe too.

I'm not familiar with gunnison units but as far as I know you do not have to recalibrate an O2 sensor by exposing to fresh air. I'm sure there are others who know way more than me.

If I remeber right Rusty, Birdoprey, and with Birdoprey's help Raginmain have all used an O2 setup to tune with. Any input from you guys would be much appreciated!

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Going to weld in a bung this weekend, hopefully, to use my A/F gauge to fine tune my EFI setup. Dyno costs are HUGE when setting this system up so I have a map in it now that it runs with and am going to take the hours needed to ride around and check my ratios at each different throttle position, where I can, and go from there. My data logger will be tape on the throttle grip and controls, my eyes, and a pad of paper and pen.

 

[Birdoprey]

My next step is to strap it somewhere or put it in a back pack and do some data logging with it in all kinds of traffic/situations to see how the bike is performing at partial throttle as well as wide open throttle like on a dyno. Since I dont spend most of my time at WOT, I want to see what the bike is doing when I am just "putting around" town.
Cheers

Fargo,

I always used some 2 or 3" wide velcro, stuck one side on the back of the LM-1 and the other side to the tank(or in the case of the v-max, the faux tank cover). I then routed the power cables down and under the seat to where it attatches to the battery. IIRC, i sent a power adapter to plug the LM-1 into? Then i could watch while running down the road. Easier to datalog too by just hitting the button and go.
I do have an old magnetic tank bag with a clear cover i could send you to use if you don't wanna stick anything to the tank cover?

 

[Birdoprey]

I believe it will work better on a 4-2-1 header because you will get a reading from all 4 cylinders. On a dual exhause system, you will have to pick a side for the O2 sensor. You will get a reading off 2 of the cylinders, but should still be pretty accurate.

I had Mark install two 02 bungs into my 4-2 exhaust i got from him. Each right after the 2-1 collecter on each side. Can't be seen w/o looking up under the bike.

 

[Birdoprey]

I will have to check tonight and see what brand the one I have is. If my memory serves me right it is made by Autometer, but I may be mistaken. One thing I am looking at is only using it to tune and then removing it from the bike. I almost have too many gauges to look at now and adding it would just add a distraction. When you buy the bung I believe they come with a plug too so you can install the sensor when tuning and remove it once you are done. As conditions don't change that drastically all at once you only need to put the gauge on when you make a change or if you are heading into a lower altitude area etc. Will update later.

Hey Jim,

Is yours a wide band 02 setup or is it a narrow band unit?

 

[Birdoprey]

Going to weld in a bung this weekend, hopefully, to use my A/F gauge to fine tune my EFI setup. Dyno costs are HUGE when setting this system up so I have a map in it now that it runs with and am going to take the hours needed to ride around and check my ratios at each different throttle position, where I can, and go from there. My data logger will be tape on the throttle grip and controls, my eyes, and a pad of paper and pen.

Jim,

If you would like, i can loan you my wideband 02 setup. Its an LM-1 from Innovate Motorsports and will datalog as well. Since you are running a TPS sensor, you can use the LM-1 to log that and rpm. Just hit the button to start the log and go for a spin. Upload later and see where you need to make changes. All i ask is to take care of it and pay shipping.
It would be available when Fargo is done with it. In fact, he can ship it straight to you when he is done if you like?

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Jim,

If you would like, i can loan you my wideband 02 setup. Its an LM-1 from Innovate Motorsports and will datalog as well. Since you are running a TPS sensor, you can use the LM-1 to log that and rpm. Just hit the button to start the log and go for a spin. Upload later and see where you need to make changes. All i ask is to take care of it and pay shipping.
It would be available when Fargo is done with it. In fact, he can ship it straight to you when he is done if you like?

Sounds like a plan to me!! Let me know and we can set this up once Fargo is done. Much appreciated sir!! Always say that the guys here are the best.

 

[Birdoprey]

I know some of you asked about putting an Air/fuel monitor and gauge on the bike. It shouldnt be too hard. The hardest part will be welding the O2 sensor bung into the exhaust pipe.

I believe it will work better on a 4-2-1 header because you will get a reading from all 4 cylinders. On a dual exhause system, you will have to pick a side for the O2 sensor. You will get a reading off 2 of the cylinders, but should still be pretty accurate.

Kit runs about $280 from Jegs. Holley makes a kit and Innovate Motorsports makes one.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Innovate-Motorsports/Innovate-DB-Series-Air-Fuel-Gauge-Kits/774546/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/p/Innovate-Moto...-G-Series-Air-Fuel-Gauge-Kits/857489/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/p/Holley/Holley-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Monitors/745181/10002/-1


Other brands
http://www.jegs.com/c/Gauges-Tachs_Air-Fuel-Ratio-EGT-Monitoring-Systems/10625/10002/-1

The Holley unit is not a wide band. Dunno if you(or others) know the difference?
If not, a narrow band can not tell you your actual A/F. It just knows whats NOT Stoich(14.7:1), which is not where you want it most of the time. And the farter from stoich your a/f gets, the less accurate the unit is. It is also slow to respond.
A Wide band 02 sensor can accurately read actual A/F from as rich as 9:1 to as lean as 18:1. It also reacts very quickly.

In the world of tuning, a narrow band is absolutely worthless. Can give you a general idea but who wants to spend that kind of $$$ for that? Wide bands cost more(though their price is MUCH lower than they used to be), but save one much time and $$$ in the long run.

 

[Birdoprey]

Sounds like a plan to me!! Let me know and we can set this up once Fargo is done. Much appreciated sir!! Always say that the guys here are the best.

Not a problem. Here is the actual unit that i have:
http://www.titanmotorsports.com/lm1rpmkit.html

It has the rpm converter that allows you to log rpm and 4 or 5 other functions(like tps, coolant temp, etc).

Here is the manual incase you wanna look into it before hand:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LM1_Manual.pdf

Here is the manual on the rpm converter:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LMA2_Manual.pdf

And lastly, you can go here and download the software and play with it if you like:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php

BTW, the software disc will be in with the LM-1 as are a printed copy of the manuals

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Thanks again!!!! I will PM Fargo the address to ship it to once he is finished with it. Looks like a nice setup! can put the controlller in my tank bag and off I go. Will be welding a bung into my mid-pipe shortly and can go from there.

 

[Birdoprey]

Good deal. Please be sure to read all info on it before using it. Its super simple to use by just reading the disply on the unit. Gets a little more involved when you wanna log other things(though its nothing real hard). Just make sure you NEVER run the 02 sensor mounted in your exhaust w/o the unit hooked up and powered up. It will damage the sensor. BTW, that sensor was bought just before sending it to Fargo, so you'll have no worries there.

 

[Nuclear Banana]

The Holley unit is not a wide band. Dunno if you(or others) know the difference?
If not, a narrow band can not tell you your actual A/F. It just knows whats NOT Stoich(14.7:1), which is not where you want it most of the time. And the farter from stoich your a/f gets, the less accurate the unit is. It is also slow to respond.
A Wide band 02 sensor can accurately read actual A/F from as rich as 9:1 to as lean as 18:1. It also reacts very quickly.

In the world of tuning, a narrow band is absolutely worthless. Can give you a general idea but who wants to spend that kind of $$$ for that? Wide bands cost more(though their price is MUCH lower than they used to be), but save one much time and $$$ in the long run.

The wide band might work to give an idea for a rich or lean condition at cruising speeds to get optimal fuel miliage, but will not give you an idea what your actual A/F will be to acheive optimal power.

I agree, I would not get the wide band. I also run the LM-1 Innovate system, but have it on my car. Me and my buddy also installed the same system on his turbo GSXR750. at the track, we make our runs, record, then hook up to my laptop to see the run.It has helped a great deal in tuning a nitrous engine for my car. I'm able to tune and do it safely.